Were Clanbase right?
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3 Jun 2008, 23:03
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Polls
FF.org are out because of gnajda, was it the right decision?
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64.6 %
(839 votes)
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20.8 %
(270 votes)
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14.6 %
(190 votes)
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edit: FIRST TIME IM FIRST @ POLL woooooooooow cooooooool
and i got a reply from tosspot! so best beginning of a day, not?
Just have a look on all the comments in the last months/year especially the euphoric comments in this FF got banned journals and topics.. the hatred towards polish people can be felt everyday.. and yo u cant escape it when you r playing this game.. Thats the reason why this historic moment where people actually got together and formed an irc channel to ban a player occurred. Thats why there is people called CB admins which r supposed to serve as objective judges in these situations..
Its not because hes polish, its because hes a cheater hense why some Polish (i see Kot below for example) say it was a good decision.
the fact of the matter is that he got banned from CLANBASE, which means clanbase as an organisation, so he passed the C&A policy, so the decision was not only that of ET but also that of CB as a whole, so stop your polish whine
So today I made a journal with this question if anybody could show me some undisputed evidence, some solid proof, the most obvious actions made by gnajda that was used as proof by CB that he cheated. And guess what? It got deleted
The question "FF.org are out because of gnajda, was it the right decision?" asks that question and much more. It allows people to discuss a number of things including your question.
Also the question "Something like was Clanbase right in banning gnajda without any solid proof.." states without any argument that the proof wasnt solid, when that is also debateable.
its clear who's side your on..
Solid Proof is an opinion based retort in itself, and by putting it into the question removes the objectivity of the poll.
Stop whining now
they said they carefully reviewed demos. looks like they must have found hax.
TRIVIUM ,back then they were already called cheaters and they
were noobs as well so some of them got busted but smart ones are still alive... I have no idea how this worm sneaked to FF and how the
heck they trusted to him ?
seems like he bought private bot and learnt how to stay low with it
hihih im quite excited about this ban and i can't feel anything else
which means that the ban was right !
CB bant niet op avi's NOOOOOOIT
al zijn demo's van de laatste matches in de EC zijn proof
and you probably already voted yes bibuy on that poll..
the community and all their cheatbusters will make an avi even out of less suspicious moments!!
so i thought maybe he got another secret proof (like ESL had in some famous cs cheater case)
so if you say he got banned for an avi he got banned for the demo!!
but in this case i didnt even watch the avis!! i am just writing some bullshit to entertain myself!! :D
the poll was made by tosspot, who is not a CB admin and is in no way involved into their decision. he is not questioning his own action(s)
if the answer is no, you shouldn't be posting about it
on the other hand, if the answer is yes - you should support your claims by some proofs
and
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=1396D3D8124D4C97
np
is he involved in this or wut, just want to know
how do you want to ban the guys with private bots?
you must be kidding me
come on desperate measures are not the answer
and why did he sometimes play like low- ?
if it was important to win he always turned his aimbot or whatever he has on and if it wasnt necessary he just played with his real skill
in my opinion you cant lose your skill within seconds and get it back after losing
according to cb, they banned gnajda for aimbot, which might be correct (I think aimbot is the only worthy thing to ban for with only demos as proof) but I still think CB needs to point out the scenes that were conclusive evidence.
slajdan was banned aswell with aimbot as the reason, which is hilarious (:
MY NBA POLL :(((((((((((
but cb shouldnt continue with this "banning-without-real-proofs" coz some clean players might get troubles :P
please tell me one thing
how do you want to ban the etplayers with private bots?
you don't get it, but I explained it a lot of times, read weak, lettu, Sheep, Meez or my comments in other topics
improving pb?
DONT YOU THINK THE HACKERS WILL BYPASS THE PB AGAIN?!
lold
Finally: during the conversation with Zell he said that the "sign" (list) was enough.
but if you were planning on playing with the cheater, then removing your clan was a right choice. I see no reason for them to remove you if you kick / dont play with that cheater. whatever, dont reflect it into this case as its different and gnajda is cheating for sure.
But, anyway, making rules for it wouldn't be easy... cause there aren't any in any leagues ATM :P
and lets face it, gnajda has a cheating history, who says he wont do cheat ever again?
f1 for me btw
edit: read kots comment
is everybody playing like gnajda? no
just to quote quad again:
While demos can never be viewed as fully conclusive evidence, some actions are strange enough to raise suspicion. There's also more circumstantial evidence from which we can infer that he's not a clean player and, on top of that, he's beyond obvious to almost everyone who played against him. I don't see why people are against using demos in such cases, they have also been successfully used in the past. Given how shitty PB is, it's the only thing we've got!
ask him for 4 demos(2 matches) and make an .avi file then
i really want to see it
And I know that gnajda is the guy I busted because I heard his voice at comms, he kept joining irc with the same ident before he realised how extremely dumb he is and his trivium mate, radziu, confirmed that!
you all get me wrong, I suspect gnajda just as much but you can't just ban someone on suspicion.
-old demos
-new demos
-anti3 bust
-all the lies when he was trying to defend himself (about his ip + asking for real proof when you got busted by anti3, at least say its a bug dont ask for real proof when you got busted by an anticheat tool)
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some quote from gtv.org after he got kicked form a non pb streamed server
- just check all his old topics + his replies
edit: and i think clanbase looked at the demos because more than 200 people start a petition (irc channel) to get him banned. right decision here and maybe a proof that clanbase needs to change it's policy (for ET)
As for the anti3 bust, even the makers of anti3 say that it hasn't been tested thoroughly enough so how should we take it as conclusive proof?
Same goes for the gtv comment. Names with added letters to the original names are usually fake accounts. If you can't match the ip he posted that with with the ip he had on that same day during that match, then it might've as well been a hungarian farmer's son who registered "gnajdaaaa" and posted bullshit.
I'm not denying he is dodgy and I tend to think he cheats as well, but I disagree with banning people if you don't have actual proof. To me, demo's are proof as well, however it should have actual obvious stuff in it and not just what we think are insane reflexes or uber-game-sense. We all saw the hordes of ppl accusing mAus for a long time and we all saw them massively standing behind him on CPC2 to see wether he would suck or not and he came out clean as a whistle. But I guess if mAus never played on lan and got ppl to shut up about him supposedly cheating, he might've gotten banned by CB now as well. See my point?
Lack of solid proof should never lead to a ban. Period.
Eventhough some of the stuff I've seen has some dodgy moments in it, I do not agree with this ban simply because there is no solid proof to ban him.
You should work for a gossip magazine. They need ppl who can turn words around to come to conclusions that the source itself never told.
however tell me this. if someone is using an undetected cheat, he never played on a lan, or if he did he sucked, he has 10 wall track situations per game and 10 funny mouse movement 3hs kills a game, there shouldnt be a reason that he is considered a cheater and put under a closer observation? so basically back in the day chaplja could've won EC by having 90% acc with 50 nades in each round and your comment on the matter would be: "nah not cheating, no pb kick"
if that logic would be practiced in courts the prisons would be empty
is he suspicious? Yes he is. Is there solid proof that without a doubt he is cheating? No there is not.
Don't get me wrong, I suspect him of cheating just as much but there is simply no solid proof.
And to use your prison comparison, if we find ppl guilty on suspicion and vague evidence then a lot of prisons are gonna have to be build because the current ones would be full in no-time.
Like I said before I suspect him of cheating just as much, I just don't agree with banning people on suspicion alone. The demo that is attached to his ban is seriously not enough to ban anyone on.
yes
He got also busted by anti3 etc.. Still I haven't seen solid proof of his hacking. Voted no.
not to mention you're always "defending" them on xfire.
And I'm kinda sure senti cheated in some of o6 games as well to name a few..
The idea that demos can't be considered solid proof is flawed though - I've banned people (pepper, for example) based on just demos in the past, if the evidence is convincing enough (I'm not talking 70%-acc snapping here, but obvious and repeated enough to be sure).
you have one demo where i left a fucking aimbot on while im afk, and another where im not using anything
and i get banned for the second one...
not to mention that the demos were like , at least, 6 months apart, giving plenty of time to process the ban (alexl was banned with less evidence in less time)
the only reason i got banned for that demo was that the fucked stewie interviewed ada on some shit and adacore obviously doesnt know shit about any ET player that he hasnt personally played with (dont think he even knew my name)
so stewie asked "why are players like alexl, pepper blabla not banned?"
Alexl was banned and I Was not. And surprise surprise I got banned like 1 day after the interview
so theres a clear mistake, i was supposed to be banned for my aimbot demo, not any other one...
u dont care about evidence, u just wanna ban players u dont like
given the choice between busting someone with a demo showing obvious aimbotting or suspcious wh action , which one would u choose ?
he should've banned me for the aimbot demo, thats what I said, you got that shit now ?
like your case wasn't super obvious :>
and maybe it's a good policy, because undetected bots get a whole new meaning when clanbase is going to ban on demos (and avi's?) and people will think before trying one
1) Gnajde is innocent
and then :
If I was Gnajda/Gnida* I would be very pissed off because I would go that far and at the end I would let down my team and
made them look like idiots and brought shame to FF legendary name ! Closer to ''polaks out ''
but hey ! there is still real life so let's change IP or guid and go pub !!! and have some beer or whatevah
2 ) gnajda is quilty as Josef Fritz from Austria
If I was him I would turn off IRC / ET and simply
wouldn't care
the thing is though my personality can only put myself into
first Gnajda option because I can't see myself playing with bots
and going for some big cups with that ... so I really don't
know what he feels if he is quilty.
BECAUSE WE NEVER KNOW WGAT PERSON IS DOING THERE
UNTIL WE GET THERE AS GHOSTS AND SEE HIM PLAYING
my point is ..even though I agree with ban Im still waiting for him to admit , which may never happen so the case will leave mist and mystery around .
GNAJDA WE NEED YOUR STATEMANT to complete this whine and controversion .
But he will never admit because he wants to piss off CB ,and he will comeback under diffrent name .
*in polish 2nd one means a horrible type of worm,slimy ugly blaah,that's his nick form the times he played for trivium )
That just sounded so funny that I had to quote it, sorry.
cause there was too much thought running through my mind.
I should have put something from real life but since I personally
spend 7 days a week at work I have no life as well :D:D:D
Work life ....ain't the same as with friends :(
http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?nid=290821&lid=6600
The fact he is laughing about it says enough for me. I wouldn't even need proof because he's reaction tells me enough.
When others were busted (while innocent) they reacted very aggressive (and trying to deny everything) like most people would do.
he was on nc (?) customers list
breaking C&A policy? there are hundreds of CS players banned for demos. example: http://clanbase.ggl.com/cheaters.php?chid=12660
I agree that in this case, the ruling was right, but in general, you should go by the book. If it says demos aren't enough, then they shouldn't be enough - even if it would mean that this cheater would get to play.
OT:
I am too fucking fed up with the way CB interprets the rules everytime, they aren't for intrepretations, they are to be followed exactly.
"ohhhh he hax he hax"
its getting old bitches, get skill or stfu
i played against gnajda and he cried "HAX HAX HAX" he is like you , getting owned by the pro's u got that shit ?
http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=forum&mode=item&id=7956
is a shame, because I always thought FF were a great team.
Gnajda and naga in
=)
Bad decision imo. He may be a cheater, but the evidence is poor.
This is basically a case of the community beleiving that he is a hacker, so any luck or good shots he has must be due to hacks.
If you look hard enough, you can find things which are possibly not there ;)
It seems to me that because they are convinced he is a cheater, they are making up rules in order to ban him. Getting caught by anti3 seems to have had a big bearing on this ban, because if that didn't catch him, then I doubt they would have found anything worthy enough for a ban.
And you dont have to watch all demos of gnajda, just the couple of ec
But anti3 isn't considered an official anticheat according to CB. You can't assume that someone cheats because he is good and doesn't attend LAN, and where was he caught before? PBBan?
too many assumptions tbh. But I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I think there is a high chance that he cheats, but not enough solid evidence for CB.
Is there any proof or just people wanted to ban him ?
If they go and own we could reach levels of drama never achieved before in this community :O for this reason tosspot&co should review the rules and allow players banned for demos to the lans :D
just thoughts, wouldnt work like this but if you continue developing them, you could end up with a good ruleset.
If I remember well there were already a bunch of mid-or-lower skilled teams in the last 2 crossfire lans, so it shoukln't be a real problem :p
If he tracks people behind walls, ban him, if he aimbots nexuslike ban him. Otherway there is not enough proof. And of what i've seen in ag0n's avi for example there was not proof at all, not even close to it.
If you really decide to ban someone on the base of demos it is not enough to say "we banned him because of demos" but make a detailed description of what moments where obviously unhuman and why.
But hey, wasn't the moonlanding a conspiracy too?
It was not only 1 demo. I saw 4 demos + 2 matches on ETTV about him and I bet my penis that he used at least an humanized aimbot. Don't forget he got busted with the anti3 tool. Don't underrate this tool and bust. His 'et career' looks also very suspicious.
There are also evidences cases in real life and the evidences allow only one judgment - guilty!
So anyone who still has old Maus demos from adlernest sitsuation, pm me.
Edit: So voted absolutely - No.
like, ff won some games cuz of hacks -.-! take them out!
a) 90% less polskis
b) no easy way to just change PBGUID so 50% less cheaters
Who won?