This was originally a comment to Torrents article, but as this post got quite long nobody read/commented it. So im posting it as an own column, as its a little too long to be an comment, I guess people dont want two different and very long points in the same thread. (This is a answer to Torrents column so you need to read it before reading this one http://crossfire.nu/?x=column&mode=item&id=279 )
I understand Torrents of view really well, because etqw is different from WOLF:ET and I think everyone that enjoyed WOLF:ET misses things in ETQW. But it will always be this way with new games, I can bet 100 euro here and now that people will be disappointed about RTCW2 as well. In cod4 I will surly miss my favourite weapon from the cod series, the rifle, but I might just as well like the game. Because the game got new stuff that I might even have to learn to like, they might not be as simple - but with some time I might enjoy them just as much as I did with the rifle.
As for ETQW there is some things that might seem very scary to WOLF:ET players and these are vehicles. They are big, they are ugly, they got an unfair amount of splash damage and armour and they are going to kill you in pubs. There is a cvar to remove them, so when SDK arrives I guess we will see lots of infantry only servers. And there is 2 maps without (almost any) vehicles in the game atm, so you can pub without getting spammed to death.
But this will change, if you look to Battlefield 2 - (a game that's far from ETQW and many times more focused around vehicles) you will see that even bf2 is played INF only to a big extent. In clan matches the no vehicle scene is the most active and there are tons of public servers offering a vehicle free experience. And im convinced we will see the same with ETQW, not because BF2 and ETQW are alike - but because people aren't that into vehicles in the long run.
And in clan matches most vehicles and turrets is already restricted or removed. The reason for this is split. In a 6vs6 its kinda hard having lots of units having 2-5 times more health and firepower than a infantry, not only takes it focus away from the objectives having to use 2 or 3 from your team to counter tank/air. Its also very unfair and unbalanced in many situations where a tank or air unit can gain total map control over an area even versus several infantry players attacking at the same time. Other than that the vehicles doesn't really add very much to the gameplay in clan matches, ask yourself the question: "what does a tank add to the gameplay that an infantry player doesn't?" The only thing the tank adds to the game is being unbalanced vs infantry in 1vs1s or 1vs2s or even 1vs3s and that's not a thing that clan players enjoy too much. (Unless they're in the tank of course) Because this is a basic feeling WOLF:ET players might feel more strongly about than BF players, a 1vs1 shouldn't be about who's sitting in the best vehicle, it should be about skill and who's the better player in the situation or who's got the best teamwork with a nice crossfire setup or a medic coming in for the revive as soon as your dropped.
And I feel this very strongly (even though I have only played BF at a high level), right from the start I stated strongly that I didn't think heavy vehicles belonged in a tight 6vs6 clanmatch scenario as they are very powerful. In a tank you can take out as many infantry players as you want in an 1on1 unless they are a rocket soldiers and in a 1vs1 with rocket soldier vs tank the tank got about 4/5 times as much health and better weapons. So to make it fair you would need a 1vs4 rocket soldier and the tank can heal itself through the driver jumping and repairing, this is if you look away from the most effective tank counter, the rocket arty. But as tankers get better they are starting to find many ways to move to places when they get locked (by arty) where the path of the rocket arty is obstructed and they don't get hit.
And the tank got very powerful spam weapons that's so powerful that you don't really want to move in on a objective before you have taken out the tank that's a part of the defence there. This makes for a gameplay where countering the tank is as important as winning the 1vs1s or 2vs2 or whatever XvsXs buying you entrance to the objective. This is very familiar for BF players, but remember that bf2/2142 always was played no vehicles in 5vs5/6vs6 and we never used vehicles in "flag by flag". (gametype where you have to the objectives in a set succession - similar to the gameplay of stopwatch) So why do BF players feel so strongly about having the tanks in a 6vs6 scenario where you have to do objectives in a set succession? If this was bf2 we wouldn't.
So the questions remaining are: What good does the vehicles add to the gameplay in 6vs6? What good do the vehicles add to the 6vs6 ETQW community if it scares away the WOLF:ET players? (because the ETQW community will die at some point unless many WOLF: ET players move over - this isn't BF3 and the majority of the people playing in one year cant be BF players if ETQW is to have a long lasting life)
Will we miss the heavy vehicles if we remove them in 6vs6s?, is there anyone that's not very sucky and trying to be better than he really is only playing heavy vehicles that would miss them? Wouldn't we get a gameplay more about objectives, teamwork and skill - rather than having a large focus on spam and counters? Wouldn't we attract more WOLF: ET players and build ourselves a real future as a competitive community? Well I am one sided when answering my own questions, but I would like to hear other people answer these questions and I would love to hear what WOLF: ET players think.
And a big factor here is: The ETQW clan community need WOLF: ET players to start playing ETQW. Atm few realises this, but if WOLF: ET players dont start playing ETQW the community wont grow and it will only become a shadow of what it could have been. Because there is tons of other MP games coming out this fall and there is only one natural recruiting ground for ETQW. If this doesnt happen I dont see ETQW surviving for very long, as there is too few people playing atm and the recruitment is very slow with big resistance from WOLF: ET players. In my eyes the only solution to this problem is making ETQW 6vs6 more tempting for WOLF: ET players.
As for other things that's "wrong" with etqw, well the engine is different. Everything doesn't feel as smooth as in the q3 engine (especially if your not getting 120fps stable and have tweaked your config right), but it will be just the same with RTCW2 and its something you can learn to like if you give it a honest shot. The movement and weapons are different from WOLF: ET, but the game has good hitboxes and net code and these are just things you have to get used to. Because if you do give it an honest shot and find the game to be enjoyable, a new world of new maps, new possibilities and tons of fun will open to you. ETQW might not be as easy to like as WOLF: ET was back in the day (for current WOLF: ET players), but if you fix your fps, fix your animations and get into ETQW there is tons of fun here and it truly is a worthy WOLF: ET successor. Different - yes, but just as good. Long live Enemy Territory! : )
I understand Torrents of view really well, because etqw is different from WOLF:ET and I think everyone that enjoyed WOLF:ET misses things in ETQW. But it will always be this way with new games, I can bet 100 euro here and now that people will be disappointed about RTCW2 as well. In cod4 I will surly miss my favourite weapon from the cod series, the rifle, but I might just as well like the game. Because the game got new stuff that I might even have to learn to like, they might not be as simple - but with some time I might enjoy them just as much as I did with the rifle.
As for ETQW there is some things that might seem very scary to WOLF:ET players and these are vehicles. They are big, they are ugly, they got an unfair amount of splash damage and armour and they are going to kill you in pubs. There is a cvar to remove them, so when SDK arrives I guess we will see lots of infantry only servers. And there is 2 maps without (almost any) vehicles in the game atm, so you can pub without getting spammed to death.
But this will change, if you look to Battlefield 2 - (a game that's far from ETQW and many times more focused around vehicles) you will see that even bf2 is played INF only to a big extent. In clan matches the no vehicle scene is the most active and there are tons of public servers offering a vehicle free experience. And im convinced we will see the same with ETQW, not because BF2 and ETQW are alike - but because people aren't that into vehicles in the long run.
And in clan matches most vehicles and turrets is already restricted or removed. The reason for this is split. In a 6vs6 its kinda hard having lots of units having 2-5 times more health and firepower than a infantry, not only takes it focus away from the objectives having to use 2 or 3 from your team to counter tank/air. Its also very unfair and unbalanced in many situations where a tank or air unit can gain total map control over an area even versus several infantry players attacking at the same time. Other than that the vehicles doesn't really add very much to the gameplay in clan matches, ask yourself the question: "what does a tank add to the gameplay that an infantry player doesn't?" The only thing the tank adds to the game is being unbalanced vs infantry in 1vs1s or 1vs2s or even 1vs3s and that's not a thing that clan players enjoy too much. (Unless they're in the tank of course) Because this is a basic feeling WOLF:ET players might feel more strongly about than BF players, a 1vs1 shouldn't be about who's sitting in the best vehicle, it should be about skill and who's the better player in the situation or who's got the best teamwork with a nice crossfire setup or a medic coming in for the revive as soon as your dropped.
And I feel this very strongly (even though I have only played BF at a high level), right from the start I stated strongly that I didn't think heavy vehicles belonged in a tight 6vs6 clanmatch scenario as they are very powerful. In a tank you can take out as many infantry players as you want in an 1on1 unless they are a rocket soldiers and in a 1vs1 with rocket soldier vs tank the tank got about 4/5 times as much health and better weapons. So to make it fair you would need a 1vs4 rocket soldier and the tank can heal itself through the driver jumping and repairing, this is if you look away from the most effective tank counter, the rocket arty. But as tankers get better they are starting to find many ways to move to places when they get locked (by arty) where the path of the rocket arty is obstructed and they don't get hit.
And the tank got very powerful spam weapons that's so powerful that you don't really want to move in on a objective before you have taken out the tank that's a part of the defence there. This makes for a gameplay where countering the tank is as important as winning the 1vs1s or 2vs2 or whatever XvsXs buying you entrance to the objective. This is very familiar for BF players, but remember that bf2/2142 always was played no vehicles in 5vs5/6vs6 and we never used vehicles in "flag by flag". (gametype where you have to the objectives in a set succession - similar to the gameplay of stopwatch) So why do BF players feel so strongly about having the tanks in a 6vs6 scenario where you have to do objectives in a set succession? If this was bf2 we wouldn't.
So the questions remaining are: What good does the vehicles add to the gameplay in 6vs6? What good do the vehicles add to the 6vs6 ETQW community if it scares away the WOLF:ET players? (because the ETQW community will die at some point unless many WOLF: ET players move over - this isn't BF3 and the majority of the people playing in one year cant be BF players if ETQW is to have a long lasting life)
Will we miss the heavy vehicles if we remove them in 6vs6s?, is there anyone that's not very sucky and trying to be better than he really is only playing heavy vehicles that would miss them? Wouldn't we get a gameplay more about objectives, teamwork and skill - rather than having a large focus on spam and counters? Wouldn't we attract more WOLF: ET players and build ourselves a real future as a competitive community? Well I am one sided when answering my own questions, but I would like to hear other people answer these questions and I would love to hear what WOLF: ET players think.
And a big factor here is: The ETQW clan community need WOLF: ET players to start playing ETQW. Atm few realises this, but if WOLF: ET players dont start playing ETQW the community wont grow and it will only become a shadow of what it could have been. Because there is tons of other MP games coming out this fall and there is only one natural recruiting ground for ETQW. If this doesnt happen I dont see ETQW surviving for very long, as there is too few people playing atm and the recruitment is very slow with big resistance from WOLF: ET players. In my eyes the only solution to this problem is making ETQW 6vs6 more tempting for WOLF: ET players.
As for other things that's "wrong" with etqw, well the engine is different. Everything doesn't feel as smooth as in the q3 engine (especially if your not getting 120fps stable and have tweaked your config right), but it will be just the same with RTCW2 and its something you can learn to like if you give it a honest shot. The movement and weapons are different from WOLF: ET, but the game has good hitboxes and net code and these are just things you have to get used to. Because if you do give it an honest shot and find the game to be enjoyable, a new world of new maps, new possibilities and tons of fun will open to you. ETQW might not be as easy to like as WOLF: ET was back in the day (for current WOLF: ET players), but if you fix your fps, fix your animations and get into ETQW there is tons of fun here and it truly is a worthy WOLF: ET successor. Different - yes, but just as good. Long live Enemy Territory! : )
gl with that :)
it's like noobmode tfc (which was originally a noobmode of qwtf)
"Even if you paid me" I would not play this game.
et:qw will be succesful untill the next battlefield
There are a couple of points I disagree with though. Personally, being clanned in ET:QW I haven't found vehicles a problem in ET:QW, only deployables. A single Strogg with Hyperblaster can suck a GDF tank dry within seconds, even without the use of nades.
W:ET's simplicity rewards players with good aim and movement skill, which quite rightly, appeals to a vast audience. Vanilla ET:QW currently requires a different skill spectrum often alien to ET players. I'm sure you'll agree taken2 considering your BF2 background experience. W:ET players (including myself in the past) are invariably lazy people. We want to spawn and get in a firefight within 10 or 20 seconds. Fast, frantic, close quarter action. Superb.
I've read a lot of indecisive players looking for other people to tell them what to play next and funnily enough, "worried" about the communitys they are part of or want to move on to. Personally, I cant see the majority of W:ET players moving to COD 4 at all. It's far to slow (iin relation to W:ET) and from previous COD gaming, campy for me. No stafe jumping aswell etc. It's a good game and I'm sure it will be a success competitive wise, but again, I doubt it's the choice of the majority of W:ET players ultimately.
I certainly dont see Enemy Territory: Quake Wars NEEDING the W:ET community to survive. By now, everyone has drawn their opinions on the game and yet the community steadily grows.
DONT FORGET, there WILL be competition mods produced for ET:QW, whether it be a mod called "ETQWPro" or another mod called "AvsB: PMC Warfare":
http://www.digitalsoftware.se/projects/index.php?pid=167
Sit back, wait until the SDK is released and draw your conclusions from the following mods. Also, with regards ET:QW, the game will continue to improve and the patching process progresses.
RTCW2 is going to dissapoint a lot of people I suspect (I will be very surprised if not) as taken2 has already stated. A modification of ET:QW will much closer resemble W:ET (ETPro).
ROFL
Read the dev blogs:
http://devblogs.digitalsoftware.se/avsb/2007/05/practise-game-mode.php
Even at 125fps stable ET:QW still handles like a turd.
As the game is refined and tweaked for competitive play, I might learn to like it, who knows?
I really want QW to be good and time will tell whether or not I get what I want.
I do not understand how someone who has played bf at a high level can think vehicles dont belong in a 6v6 game. Makes no sense. Of course they do. All the evidence from bf games is that vehicles work in 6v6.
The ESL should just go back to the old Valley ruleset, but without the radar.
btw already pass 5 or 6years since the best game ever made was relaesed im talking of RTcw of course what's wrong with this people...
one more time et > COD4 > tetris > MinesWeeeEEEeeper > ET:QW
The other good things is thier "super technologies" (ironism) to do uber mega good map playable with the same pc as Quake 4. They have to test ut3, it's better looking with stable fps..
I'm at 125 fps with ut3 stable and in ET: QW it's moving all the time. They have to know @ splashdamage if they want to be played by a maximum of players, they have to do an optimized game for every config.
I don't think ET: QW will have a big time of life, like 1 or 1,5 year.
Et puis j3j3, arrete de vivre dans la nostalgie, le jeu si tu le prend independement de son nom est quand meme bien sympa en match :)
nicely written, taken
i will play this game when it has a good competition mod and they bring wolf:et recoil
The infantry is so random in this game
If they do remove all the spam i still don't want to play a random spray infantry game with good graphics.
ETQW is gonna get q4'd.
i hope RTCW2 will be similar as W:ET or RTCW
kk. lets kill et:qw together
!
ET players will stick to ET cauz its their fav. game...
ET:QW needs own players, if it flops it flops. who cares ?
were as et you really had to work for your skill. and i dont think team play will be hard in et qw as to et.
and keep this in mind if rtcw 2 came out no one would be taking about cod 4 or et qw cuz you know where we would all be, also you said befor in another post that all the big guns are pushing this game will i hope so they have to try and sell the game. thats how this guys make money, et was for free so y bother to push it and try to give money for comp?
and guys yes there are cheaters in et just incase you wonna bring that up :) but you take et-qw wont be long before you get them there and it will be harder to catch cuz i plyed for abit at et qw and you can kill some one from across the map np so have fun at that.
well thats my liitle thing about the hole thing but no matter what game yuo play gl hf happy fragging
et:qw has skill in it, to think so is ridiculous unless you only die through falling too far off buildings or something (which I doubt somehow). Someone is going to be better than you because ...they're better.
You have to remember you've been playing et for a while and are erm I dunno if you're any good but i bet you're better than a lot of the people playing etqw. A lot of them wont have played games before, at least not to any level, so of course it might seem like theres no skill in it.
When et came out the old rtcw players raped everyone. We raped everyone, over time all the new guys caught up/overtook etc. It's the natural way of things.
As for the hacks...et is a joke for it. Competitive play needed a key banning system a long long time ago.
- the rules suck
- theres are some huge multigaming teams and some low clans but theres nothing between
- 80% of the german scene is from bf2 and they're all completely retarded. (I hope someone reads it)
- competition mod takes too long
- most maps are total unbalanced (vulcano as example)
I almost hate every map except island salvage and sewer
+ engine feels slow+laggy, thought they would fix it :(
http://www.et-quake.com/2007/10/18/i3d-esl-clanbase-i32-enemy-down-and-dignitas-formalise-etqw-rule-set
there fps games
thats all
there all different games
not the same
get over it
you cant play 1 game for life
dont know who im flaming
but generally, stop being boring cunts you whiners and try other games!
if you dont like one game
dont play it
play another
theres not just 1!
Important things first: Bring back helmets! I wanna shoot little strogg hats off!
Great read though :D
Sure etqw needs a comp setting but im sure that will come in time cos the game is still relativly new i think anyway.
The vehicals can be annoying sure but the beauty of the game is that they are so easy to take down imo but restricting how many vehicals you can use in a scrim i spose wldnt hurt.
I belive most new games these days are going have vehicals in them it seems to be the way games are progressing. ETQW is a good game and i tihnk it will do well.
Hope all that makes sense.
Maybe not the W:ET players want to play ETQW because its totally diffrent from W:ET I still think ETQW will survive with the backup from big companys and tournaments. The aim is not random sure the spread could be less but its not random. Also SDK will make rules easier and the game will only be better.
there is a short time where u have no vehicle penetrating the objective. and dont spamm me with "hey u can rocket/artillery him" he will camp in the garage and u are fucked!
when there would be a inf only matchup u had a chance with teamplay aim and simply SKILL to crack the def and build the first objective and all would be ok.
they should disable all heavy vehicles and just let the small and middle vehicles for fast runs to the hot sppots and some fights with vehicle vs vehicle but not the crappy heavy vehicle penetration