Beforehand I want to apologise for my poor english skills and for involving Team Germany (butchji) into this matter.
Here is a some sort of timescale about some of the events during this conflict:
21. January 2008
Team Finland gets a yellow card after the game versus 
Czech due to torspo playing under nick “korak”. Right after the match DoneX approaches me on IRC telling about the yellow card. During or before the game the admin hadn’t mentioned to torspo to change his nick to match the nick on ClanBase. Although we thought it was kinda ridiculous to get the yellow card for that, we decided to just accept it and move on.
27. January 2008
Germany plays against 
Spain. Butchji uses nick “_____ji” during the whole game.
28. January 2008
I message both DoneX and Bartichello on IRC to ask for their opinions about the nick, which butchji was using on their previous game. DoneX doesn’t respond, Bartichello says that he will check the replay of the game.
30. January 2008
I haven’t heard anything about the conclusion so I decide to approach our supervisor (Bartichello) with CB’s own private message system. I ask if they are going to give out a yellow card for Germany or atleast to clear out the rule about what sort of nick is recognizable enough and which isn’t. I again want to make it clear that this wasn’t any attack against Germany and I would have done the same thing against any other country. I just want to be sure that same rules apply to everyone. Later during the same day Bartichello answers to my pm on CB and states on his answer that they aren’t going to give out a yellow card for germany, because “everyone knew who he was”. In the end of the message he also points out that yellow cards don’t play such big role in the tournament and tells me to just move on.
I decide to approach him again to ask whether all the players now have his permission to play under nicks that only got two common letters with the CB nick. I also ask if Squall for example could play under nick “____ll” and so on. Would it be fun for the shoutcasters if our whole team had nicks like “____xx”? I know that this is pretty childish and naive, but I just want everyone to get the same treatment. I never got any answer for this message.
31. January 2008
I message Bartichello in IRC to ask about this matter once again. The answer is that you can play with whatever nick you want as long as it stays recognizable. He tells me that in butchji’s case it was so. Now in my opinion “recognizable” is a term that depends on the point of view. Of course majority of people knew who this mysterious “_____ji” was, but what about those ETTV viewers who are not as “inside the scene” as we are? When I ask about this he states: “the rule stater recognisable to suprevisors and admins. the audience isn't included”. After hearing that I start to search the ClanBase Nations Cup rules (http://clanbase.ggl.com/rules.php?lid=5936) to find this rule, but I can’t seem to find it. I ask Bartichello to name the paragraph of the rules where it says so or just to paste it for me. He can’t find the rule either, but he says something about some Euro Cup rules. Then he says that DoneX should know where it is, but that he is offline right now. He tells me to get back to him tomorrow. I couldn’t wait so long so I sent pm via CB to DoneX to ask him about the rule. I never got any answer for this message either.
1. February 2008
Nothing new. He says that he will be looking for it.
3. February 2008
Bartichello tells me that DoneX is going to “talk to the chiefs”.
It’s 13th of February now and I havent heard a word since. I dont know how long this matter can take to be solved, but it feels like I’m not going to get any answer at all. Are they hoping that I will forget this and move on? I don’t know, but to me it feels like I can’t trust these guys anymore. I have always tought that the supervisors are there to solve the problems in cups and make the rules clear for everyone. Now the rules have been nothing but clear to me atleast. I find it amusing how DoneX never answered to the messages I send via CB’s OWN message system. You might think that it should be the most certain way to get in touch with the supervisors.
So what am I trying to achive with all this? I bet most of you think that I’m just a pathetic little whiner who should be burned in hell. I myself find this rather amusing. I have always had my trust in CB with their professional behavior, but this is making me to change my opinion. It has already taken far too long time to get no answer at all in this matter, which should be very clear. If you read those rules I bet you can’t find a rule stating which nick is recognizable enough. They have major flaw in their rules and they should fix it. Meanwhile they should treat everyone in the same way, which means to either remove our yellow card or give Germany one. I want CB to step forward and fix this problem like it is expected from them. I hope that I haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings and that CB is not going to punish Team Finland for MY opinions. I’m taking the responsibility for this writing alone. I also want to once more apologise to Germany and butchji for involving you into this.
simamies
Here is a some sort of timescale about some of the events during this conflict:
21. January 2008
Team Finland gets a yellow card after the game versus Czech due to torspo playing under nick “korak”. Right after the match DoneX approaches me on IRC telling about the yellow card. During or before the game the admin hadn’t mentioned to torspo to change his nick to match the nick on ClanBase. Although we thought it was kinda ridiculous to get the yellow card for that, we decided to just accept it and move on.27. January 2008
Germany plays against Spain. Butchji uses nick “_____ji” during the whole game.28. January 2008
I message both DoneX and Bartichello on IRC to ask for their opinions about the nick, which butchji was using on their previous game. DoneX doesn’t respond, Bartichello says that he will check the replay of the game.
30. January 2008
I haven’t heard anything about the conclusion so I decide to approach our supervisor (Bartichello) with CB’s own private message system. I ask if they are going to give out a yellow card for Germany or atleast to clear out the rule about what sort of nick is recognizable enough and which isn’t. I again want to make it clear that this wasn’t any attack against Germany and I would have done the same thing against any other country. I just want to be sure that same rules apply to everyone. Later during the same day Bartichello answers to my pm on CB and states on his answer that they aren’t going to give out a yellow card for germany, because “everyone knew who he was”. In the end of the message he also points out that yellow cards don’t play such big role in the tournament and tells me to just move on.
I decide to approach him again to ask whether all the players now have his permission to play under nicks that only got two common letters with the CB nick. I also ask if Squall for example could play under nick “____ll” and so on. Would it be fun for the shoutcasters if our whole team had nicks like “____xx”? I know that this is pretty childish and naive, but I just want everyone to get the same treatment. I never got any answer for this message.
31. January 2008
I message Bartichello in IRC to ask about this matter once again. The answer is that you can play with whatever nick you want as long as it stays recognizable. He tells me that in butchji’s case it was so. Now in my opinion “recognizable” is a term that depends on the point of view. Of course majority of people knew who this mysterious “_____ji” was, but what about those ETTV viewers who are not as “inside the scene” as we are? When I ask about this he states: “the rule stater recognisable to suprevisors and admins. the audience isn't included”. After hearing that I start to search the ClanBase Nations Cup rules (http://clanbase.ggl.com/rules.php?lid=5936) to find this rule, but I can’t seem to find it. I ask Bartichello to name the paragraph of the rules where it says so or just to paste it for me. He can’t find the rule either, but he says something about some Euro Cup rules. Then he says that DoneX should know where it is, but that he is offline right now. He tells me to get back to him tomorrow. I couldn’t wait so long so I sent pm via CB to DoneX to ask him about the rule. I never got any answer for this message either.
1. February 2008
Nothing new. He says that he will be looking for it.
3. February 2008
Bartichello tells me that DoneX is going to “talk to the chiefs”.
It’s 13th of February now and I havent heard a word since. I dont know how long this matter can take to be solved, but it feels like I’m not going to get any answer at all. Are they hoping that I will forget this and move on? I don’t know, but to me it feels like I can’t trust these guys anymore. I have always tought that the supervisors are there to solve the problems in cups and make the rules clear for everyone. Now the rules have been nothing but clear to me atleast. I find it amusing how DoneX never answered to the messages I send via CB’s OWN message system. You might think that it should be the most certain way to get in touch with the supervisors.
So what am I trying to achive with all this? I bet most of you think that I’m just a pathetic little whiner who should be burned in hell. I myself find this rather amusing. I have always had my trust in CB with their professional behavior, but this is making me to change my opinion. It has already taken far too long time to get no answer at all in this matter, which should be very clear. If you read those rules I bet you can’t find a rule stating which nick is recognizable enough. They have major flaw in their rules and they should fix it. Meanwhile they should treat everyone in the same way, which means to either remove our yellow card or give Germany one. I want CB to step forward and fix this problem like it is expected from them. I hope that I haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings and that CB is not going to punish Team Finland for MY opinions. I’m taking the responsibility for this writing alone. I also want to once more apologise to Germany and butchji for involving you into this.
simamies
eventhough I dont really care about it
Clanbase is getting messed up bigtime, some nations are not allowed to play cause they dont have "big" names, and big names always get what they want.
if this wassent butchi but another somebody who issent that famous they would get a yellow card asswell, but butchji is evryone's hero so he wont get it.
gogogo finland i hope you guys get the right treatment!!
GL
You probably received a yellow card because you had an admin which makes a deal out of it. Some referee's choose to apply the rule very strict and as it states that players have to use the names used on Clanbase or very similar to the one on the site, the admin was right to 'punish' you for that. Probably it was a 'new' admin which applies every rule very strict ( the way it should happen). Though the Germany case with butchji probably had another ref or no ref, and i guess that ref knew it was butchji and approved him to use that name. Though if the admin would have said: yellow card for disabuse of the nick they would have received a yellow card as well.
Don't take your yellow that strict, it won't damage you very very much, it's more of a reminder thaty ou have to use the correct names! I myself always ask before the game starts to nick up with the closest related name to clanbase, so i'm sure i don't have to hand out yellow cards 'n stuff.
and I'm not worried of getting second yellow card because of wrong nick, I fear that we can get second yellow card for some totally different reason
nevertheless this was not my point :) my point was that things in CB doesn't go as smoothly as they should be and the admins themselves cant find the so called rule that should exist, and they dont even try to explain it
edit.. das gemrans , der gemrans :ddd
1 red card doesn't mean you'll get kicked from the cup btw... you need 2 red cards for that. which has never happened before imo.
I'm waiting for either the chiefs to tell us the rule isn't going to be added or it is going to be added. if it isn't i'll gladly remove the yellow card.
- torspo played under a different nick and they recived a yellow card from donex for it
- butchji played under a different nick and now donex has to ask the chiefs?!
you have to be kidding me
also they need a different title than "Chiefs", it makes it sound so much more badass than it actually is
This all seems to be a case of a punished player who makes a big deal out of this yellow card and just waited for a another case of the same misdoing to flame the admins decision.
I know the feeling of being pissed due to an admins decision. And maybe this decision is not even right but hey, be a bit more polite and fair and take this yellow card. The butchji case is obviously different. And the only thing to blame is the way the admins acted.
5/7 characters are different so it's a different nick for me, you could reconize him but it's another nick.
but we all know CB admins give shit about rules, and do a lot of asskissing
no, CB NC rules doesn't say it should be recognizable for admins :p
THE ADMINING LINE SHOULD BE SAME FOR EVERYONE. NO MATTER IF IT'S EC, NC or UniversumCup.
thats the worst attempt at trying to sound knowledgeable i've ever seen on this website before, and that says smth.
CAN'T WAIT FOR PART 3!
I will say, its fucking annoying to have people playing until different nicks so if it takes a yellow card to get people to do that then so be it.
1) making things simpler
2) making it possible for asshats to manifest themselves when you're on "their turf"
This isn't a column either :(
worth reading before flaming him for writing a column :-)
i wont bother checking "flame" meaning as im not sure whether dictionary will show me some more than "smth to do with fire" or not. but i know what it means on crossfire and i qualify your "this is not a column" as a flame :)
Superretarded rules? Never seen that before.
They'll probably tell you that all their decisions about the same issue up to this point were wrong and this one is right, but they're not gonna correct their mistakes...
@all skillers
explain it to me plz!
and my next cupproject will have one rule 4 sure:
9.01922.102 You have to use the same nick as entered on the Cuppage
problem solved !
But yeah, fakenicking in an offi, especialy where there is shoutcasters brings a bit of unnecessary trouble.
8-D
that's the reason :)
But ye Sweden got only progamers as far as i know or?
http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?nid=279876&lid=5934
I really can understand the teams complaining about this rule, but rules are rules and all violations have to be punished (even if there is no logical reason to ban silent run from CB..)
Imo, germany should get a card as well, although _ _ _ _ _ ji is closer to the real nick than the one torspo used, but still the same rules should apply for everyone.
Totally different thing is if these cards really play any role anywhere :)
if you count the number of right letters in right places, you see that they are as close to each other.
b u t c h J I / _ _ _ _ _ J I - two letters in right places
t O R s p o / k O R a k - two letters in right places
so technically, TECHNICALLY, you see that these nicks equally resembles for their nicks in CB :p
I know that cards dont play huge part in these tournaments, but I still want that everybody gets the same treatment
but I agreed with u anyway if u didn't notice :O
personally i still think a new admin was on your match and was quite severe on a rule which isn't of major importance.
EDiT 1: your match had 3 admins, all of them are 'new' to this business
Though on the point of the Germany thingie having a similar thing, there also was an admin, and he probably knew it was butchji and allowed him to play like that. From my point of view i would not have given you a card, nor Germany. Though if i were you, i would just keep remind this as a lesson towards the future and just move on! You haven't lost the match thanks to this so no real big damage has been affected..
EDiT 2 :
It's not fun to tell, but i doubt that every referee checks the guids and nicks.. I myself am trying to point to all admins that they have to do this, though when you are new to this business it isn't really easy to remind of all the stuff! Remember adminning is a non payed 'job' and it requires much more time than many people think. So i know it's hard to give 'us' some credit due to all the mistakes we've made and sometimes still are making, though that's what you get if you are working with non proffessionals. If this would be my job and if i would get a salary for it, goddamm i would spec much more matches, be much more active, and know my rules by mind, but it simply isn't that way. So show some respect to those who try to make it as confortable as possible, though it isn't as easy as it seems to be!
and what about this game you referred having three admins, I asked on of them and he didnt even know who was the "real" admin. as you say these guys are new and I dont believe that they even knew that playing with other nick isn't allowed, because it's not very well represented in rules. so I doubt it was none of the referees who gave us the card, I am almost sure it was donex.
Though i feel sorry for you.. if that can be a help :p
die CB!
sitting in a tree
k - i - s - s - i - n - g
Clear?
then fucking check the guids ffs...
But it's always the same in every league... clanbase,ESL etc... admins still do there job for free and on a "amateur level"... so don't expect professionality...
It should be one rule for all imo. I also think this fakenicking is retarded anyway, not just for the admins, but for the viewers in ettv. After all, I see this NC as not only for a few nations to play against each other, but for the community to become involved (by spectating and betting) in the event.
But there's an other side of the case. Argumenting it with shoutcasters'/viewers' needs could be wrong. Like: "you dont like? - dont watch! if i wanted fame, i'd go to hollywood! i play for myself, not for spectators. its a pc game and i want to relax, not have someone to force me to use nick xyz, so that he can shoutcast easier!"
But then, there is a league which forces to use a propoer nick and there is an opponent who is also concerned with who he is playing against. There is also someone who agreed to play with coverage, so he should keep to the rules of coverage :)
Though I don´t like the fact that Finland didn´t even get a heads up for Torspo´s wrong nick during the game.
btw I have been CB admin/referee and I know that it's a job with lot of work. Still I did my job and write at least somekind decent match report in every match I admined. so dont tell me what admin job can be
you cant be that stupid.
Refers to a girl prone to creating or participating in trivial matters of gossip (otherwise known as drama), due to lack of having anything better to do with her time, such as enjoying a hobby. Created as a result of a typo while using Instant Messenger chat software.
World is unfair, e-world is unfair too.
torspo is totally different than korak .. and without extra informations there is no chance to find out who that should be.
on the other side it's like 99% clear, that ____ji must be butchji.
imho there are 2 ways to handle it.
1. leave it as it is
2. germany also gets a yellow card
there is absolutely no reason, why finland should not get a yellow card for that.
just my opinion.
I agree you if the rules stays as they have been from beginning of the season. if they add something new to the rules or create whole new rule in the middle of the season, then they should remove our card imo
But I had it in mind that you are only allowed to use the name that shows up in the Clans/Nations Roster .. so it must be somewhere Oo
and i cant get people who flame simamies about not important things. no matter if its about attitude towards online competition or just a personality of a player, something is wrong here and he simply pointed it out as the problem concerns him.
i personally have good experience with CB and i understand mistakes can take place, but one thing always pissed me out. why the hell is it so hard to correct those mistakes? is it that cb admins feel offended when someone tells them there has been a mistake made? well i cant speak for everyone, but for me, it is no shame for admin to make a mistake (because that must happen in such big organisation like cb), but if you made it, correct it. dont go to "chiefs" - just correct the mistake. just do it.
the history shows that not reacting to the gamer by cb admin only makes it worse, since the gamer will go to crossfire to write that he has been treated unfairly. if the right person fixed the problem when simamies asked him on irc, nobody would ever heard of the problem, cb's reputation would still look the same as in december.
this is known issue - the reaction of admin (not only cb, that concerns all organizations in the world) - instead of simply correcting mistake, they search for anything (rule, etc.) which they can use in their defence or to let them justify the decision which is clearly unfair and wrong.
i dont mean to offend anyone, especially doneX, as he was always nice to me in clanbase cases, but its just my opinion about it.
text is 100x longer than that :o)
_____ij was butchij for sure, but that korak thingy couldnt be recognised by everyone, as that nick has absolutly nothing to do with torspo (if it is understandable in finish: than kay at least the cheaters understood)
and no, the point of this column wasn't those "two same letters", the point was to draw a line and make a rule about that, meantime treat everyone as same :p
:-D Gj if it's a joke, not so gj if it isn't
It's nothing really important, but I can understand simamies. Clanbase should just accept that they made a little mistake with not handling both cases in the same way, although Butchji's nick was easier to guess than torspo's one. Give both a yellow card and everything will be fine.