First of all let's take a look at the current situation.
We got ClanBase which is in my opinion still the most important league for W:ET, so we stick with that for now.
Basically punkbuster and ClanBase work perfectly together (you will probably disagree, but read on!). We saw that in the case of lio and alexL who got almost instantly banned from CB after they got their pbban.
Some people didn't want to accept that, but at the time it happened there was only the proof to ban them and no proof to not ban them.
(proof = any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something. opinions aren't factual evidence)
So if people get banned by punkbuster the system of ClanBase works, no doubt about that.
On the other hand we all know that pb-detected cheats/hacks aren't the problem of this game. The pb system works, but it fails were we need it the most.
We all know that there are several suspicious players out there, some even in EC or OC premier, but noone seems to do anything about that. Of course we get some .avi files every week, with some of them pretty obvious, some showing absolutely nothing and in fact they are completely useless, as noone seems to care about it anyway. CB the least.
So what could we do about it?
In my opinion it's pretty simple.
In Formula 1 you have "race marshalls" who watch the race, and if anyone is breaking a rule he gets punished (drive-through, money etc.). Why don't we install a system of marshalls in ET.
An instance of several persons who have the trust of most of the players (except the hackers/cheaters of course) and even more important a direct connection to the leagues. They watch the games, check the "evidence" and if they decide to punish a player based on the evidence, then CB and the other leagues should follow their decision and do they same.
This would be the easiest anticheat system ever, because it is absolutely independent from software and can't be bypassed by nC or whoever ;)
Of course we would need absolutely trustworthy marshalls and a system that makes it almost impossible to ban innocent players.
You might think such a system could never work, but in fact it works pretty well in real life and there it's called jurisdiction.
We got ClanBase which is in my opinion still the most important league for W:ET, so we stick with that for now.
Basically punkbuster and ClanBase work perfectly together (you will probably disagree, but read on!). We saw that in the case of lio and alexL who got almost instantly banned from CB after they got their pbban.
Some people didn't want to accept that, but at the time it happened there was only the proof to ban them and no proof to not ban them.
(proof = any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something. opinions aren't factual evidence)
So if people get banned by punkbuster the system of ClanBase works, no doubt about that.
On the other hand we all know that pb-detected cheats/hacks aren't the problem of this game. The pb system works, but it fails were we need it the most.
We all know that there are several suspicious players out there, some even in EC or OC premier, but noone seems to do anything about that. Of course we get some .avi files every week, with some of them pretty obvious, some showing absolutely nothing and in fact they are completely useless, as noone seems to care about it anyway. CB the least.
So what could we do about it?
In my opinion it's pretty simple.
In Formula 1 you have "race marshalls" who watch the race, and if anyone is breaking a rule he gets punished (drive-through, money etc.). Why don't we install a system of marshalls in ET.
An instance of several persons who have the trust of most of the players (except the hackers/cheaters of course) and even more important a direct connection to the leagues. They watch the games, check the "evidence" and if they decide to punish a player based on the evidence, then CB and the other leagues should follow their decision and do they same.
This would be the easiest anticheat system ever, because it is absolutely independent from software and can't be bypassed by nC or whoever ;)
Of course we would need absolutely trustworthy marshalls and a system that makes it almost impossible to ban innocent players.
You might think such a system could never work, but in fact it works pretty well in real life and there it's called jurisdiction.
Sorry but your idea isn't solid at all.
Such a system could fail of course, but so can every other anticheat system.
And i didn't praise it as THE best solution.. it's just an input from another point of view.
and what happens to those players who are already cheating but manage to look human?
aside from VERY obvious and REPEATED actions can you do anything?
and i believe there is a system to submit demos of cheaters already?
"and a system that makes it almost impossible to ban innocent players."
u just skipped the hardest part in ur suggestion
intrested to hear ideas how that would work
think of all the people that got sentenced and not even done the crime and the people that committed a crime and are still on the loose.
Not to think of friends-politics.
this sounds more like a witch hunt than actual evidence-searching.
It's good that you try to be open for new ways but I'm afraid this solution counts too much on human judgement, which is known to be full of flaws.
anyway the basis was used for a cup and for the next small lan in france, where we simply refused the uber obvious guys (for exemple desire ^_^ )
the point behind this idea isnt to create some secret police to ban 5000 unknown innocent guys, but more of a way to push out of the com the 10 or 15 most obvious cheaters we all know but who will never get busted cause they got enough money.
in each country we got from 2 to 15 guys like that, we all know for a fact they are cheaters and have been for years, but maybe in other countries those guys are unknown. this kind of group, even if they werent able to ban the trash, they could at least put some highlights on their fishy behaviours and that way prevent some clean teams to recruit them.
i see it that way.
i lol'd :-)
Pathetic.
keep on brainstorming
Additionally we don't have more than a few hundred players who are active in the important leagues. From those few hundred only a few will ever be accused WITH evidence (.avi for example) and for these few cases, we could have the (let's call it) jury to decide about a ban.
Do you think you could accuse butchji or mAus with evidence, just because maybe you _think_ they cheat? Do you think a jury would ban without solid evidence?
But we might be able to find people who we trust and who make such a decision for us.
People lay their lives in the hands of elected politicians, why shouldn't we lay this in the hands of an elected jury?
At least kenta would be banned asap, instead of hundreds of blind retards screaming he's clean in initial bust topics.
I think about the folowing things if you want this to be succesfull:
- Not only 1 judge. You need atleast more than 10 who decide over the folowing things.
- You can't just ban some1 for 1 avi which shows some wh / rly nice aiming actions.
- It should not be that kinda unknowns who shoots good be banned for what a known player do exactly the same. (for example 3 man kill with 9 hs (with strange movement from crosshair )
- You need to set up a list here @ crossfire or clanbase with a list of the evidence.
- Ppl should be allowed to proof their/others innocent.
- Only ban if there is enough evidence and if atleast 80 / 90 % or something agrees with the fact that he is hacking.
- Every guy should be able to give the evidence to any judges.
In my opinion if you want this to work you need something like the same law structure as in the Netherlands:
- citizen ( just the players )
- police ( some1 what looks for evidence etc. So some1 like killerboy ;) )
- judge ( a bunch of guys who think about the evidence, gather some more evidence etc . And who decides with atleast 80 / 90 % if the player should get any punnishment.
I think it will fail, but let's give it a try.
It might fail (whatever "fail" would mean in that case) but we shouldn't forget that such a system would put pressure on the hackers to make their hacks less obvious ... and that alone could be a good result!
Take for example mAus. He probably would be busted for some strange avi's, but now he has proven himself.
i would elaborate on my opinion but i simply don't want to waste my time
A jury system? It would catch some innocent people, but compared to a death sentence in real life or a long jail sentence it's not such a big deal. And it might actually work.
Implementing such a system will probaly not be successfull though. An anti-cheat system should be automated and not dependent on constant voluntary presence.
In other words: 100% chance of false positives imo, you just can't draw a distinct line between mAus and allu
Now I never have been a real believer in the deterent effect of heavy sentences (the deathsentence doesn't prevent heavy crime from happening), but I do awknowledge the need for some kind of punishment for the crime.
Whitout an unique identification system, a system which requires a player to pay for a new identification, a game can never keep control of the number of cheaters. Sadly with et being a free game, this means that there is no truly effective countermeasure to cheaters.
But I am pretty happy with some of the comments here. It shows that a little bit of brainstorming could lead to something that might help.
So with the words of
that proofs you wrong.
2) [/irony] obviously
i'd like to disprove every single argument you have provided in favour of the system, but it's time for work. cu@
But instead of wasting your time to disprove my arguments when you don't have to work, you should try to think of something that could actually help?! *g*
It's always easy to criticize something!
The idea in itself isn't bad, but u would need like a jury that votes about the bans, and still I'm not sure if this would work. Plus that would be kinda time consuming for the jurymans..
Maybe this could work in a cup with limited player amount but as generally I don't think it would lead in any positive outcome..