Raven's current game development project Wolfenstein™ is quite important for the majority of Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory fans or lets say Crossfire readers in general. What Raven have already came up with were some screenshots, a first trailer some interviews and a few game magazine articles. The content was not impressive as well as the graphics shown but nevertheless it was a first sign of active development of a game we all hope to suit our needs. However what they have shown and talked so far was all part of the singleplayer. It's a game feature or lets say a part every gamer likes; but for us Crossfire readers and active online gamers there is another more important thing that makes a game enjoyable. It is of course the multiplayer mode for online play.
The success of Wolfenstein multiplayer is very important for most of us as it most probably decides about our very own gaming future. Sadly or better say luckily the only information concerning Wolf MP so far was "(...) it follows into the footsteps of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory(...)". It is objective based gameplay we all want and what they confirmed already. Now there seem to be some more or less new information regarding the multiplayer which have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Over at Wolfenstein-Zone.com a discussion about the multiplayer and especially its engine started with two possibilities for the engine. ID Tech 4 was sure to be used but that engine is quite aged and was used in different games already with different tasks. We had DOOM 3 and QUAKE 4 in which the engine was used first and was able to run small environments. From troubles to give more than four players the possibility to mess in DOOM 3, to a miscarried start of QUAKE 4 in competition further on to a quite enjoyable patched QUAKE 4 in the end; the engine feels smooth now but still lacks the possibility of running wide areas.
Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars was next to make use of ID Tech 4; a modified one of course, as that engine was now able to run huge maps packed with many players and even vehicles. Nevertheless, the smoothness of games like RtCW and W:ET using the QUAKE 3 (ID Tech 3) engine or even the patched QUAKE 4 was lost. One of the main factor for ET:QW's missing success in competition was for certain the engine used.
So we had two possibilities of which engine Wolf MP would make use of; a QUAKE 4 based engine which should guarantee smoothness or the newer engine of ET:QW which was able to run big environment. Since Raven software also created QUAKE 4 it seemed obvious of which engine they would make use of. On the other side took Activison Endrant Studios into development who were known to be mainly former Splash Damage employees. And SD again used the modified ID Tech 4 engine to create ET:QW. Within the discussion a user popped up who claimed to be an ex staff member of Activision. He said to have been in touch with the Wolfenstein development and presented his knowledge about the game (end of 2007) which is quite amazing as nearly nothing concerning the MP part was reveiled by now.
According to his knowledge Wolfenstein will in fact be built on a QUAKE 4 alike engine formerly used by Raven already, but now of course tweaked and upgraded - for the singleplayer part. Yes Raven is most likely only concerned with the SP not the MP; "except for modeling Axis and Resistance player models". Reasons for that have been that Ravens tweaked engine was never able to run network games online. At that time Threewave were included in Wolf MP and have been quite fast in development as they already finnished the biggest MP part in 2007 together with a couple of maps. They finished their work on Wolf MP when it already got a beta status.
Edrant studios was then assigned to complete their work in close cooperation to Raven. However Raven was not able to close the gap that fast as the singleplayer development was even in the middle of 2008 at pre alpha status. At least the QuakeCon trailer and paper magazine articles all show the pre-alpha. Wolf MP and ET:QW have been in development at the same time sharing the same engine - what could lead to the guess of an ET:QW alike engine for Wolf MP. And in fact the Wolfenstein MP part will be built on that engine - according to that forum user ("... The ET:QW engine was optimized for online play, so it was an obvious choice for Wolf MP, with larger draw distances").
Moreover he lifted some information about the gameplay. According to him there will be no Axis versus Allies in Wolfenstein but Resistance versus Axis. This could be quite true as the resistant fighters are also main characters within singleplayer. Next to the two fighting parties he claimed to know about the classes that will be featured in Wolf MP. As a difference to RtCW and W:ET there will 'only' be three classes available in Wolfenstein to choose from. Of course that has not to mean there will be Soldier/Medic/Engineer only. The known abilities from RtCW and W:ET could be distributed to that three classes. For example could a Medic then call for an Airstrike as well or something like that. Some abilities may be left aside and some others could be added.
For most of us his statement about no vehicles being used in Wolf MP should be quite joyful. Furthermore there should be no megatextures be used (what should already make the custom mappers happy) as the map size is not compareable with ET:QW, anyway. "Map sizes are roughly on par with RTCW maps (settings like Chemical Factory, City Canals, Hospital, Downtown Bank Plaza, etc.)". The people that screamed for small maps like in RtCW should now get a smile onto their faces. Small maps could as well increase the engine performance as wide areas and vehicles could have caused that 'un-smoothness' in ET:QW.
Next to the map size, the objectives could be comparable to RtCW as well. "Objective based gameplay remains (Destroy the wall, bunker door, fire the cannon, steal the documents, device, etc.)" For the people that feared a Capture the flag alike Wolf MP cause Threewave was involved that news should let them breathe deeply now. Next to the main objectives which mostly open new map areas there should as well be 'sub-objectives' again so the Engineer does not run out of work "(build the MG42, construct a ladder, pick the lock, repair the bridge, blow the bridge)".
The playersize for Wolfenstein should be limited by 16 what makes a public gameplay of eight versus eight players possible and of course our beloved 6vs6 mode for competition. Whether that player limitation depends on the engine, the netcode or the map size is not sure though. Custom map developers should easily be able to create bigger sized maps for public gameplay in case it does not depend on the engines abilities or the netcode, as mentioned.
The known Experience Points (XP) from Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory will be found in Wolfenstein multiplayer as well. "Players earn XP during campaign mode that can be used to upgrade to other weapons, build deployables, etc." Whether the XP system will be like the one in ET or comparable to CoD4 or even ET:QW (ranked servers) is not known yet. Deployables will be not totally new to RtCW and ET gameplay as that deployables can be for example an MG nest, a spawn area or a radar station. How much impact they may have, remains to be seen.
Now that we have all those new information (which I say again should be handled with care), we can accentuate the engine which sounds not that good to most of us on first sight but might be quite enjoyable since only small maps will be used. On the other side we have the gameplay we want, that let us hope for a nice Wolfenstein successor in 2009 confirmed by Activision.
The success of Wolfenstein multiplayer is very important for most of us as it most probably decides about our very own gaming future. Sadly or better say luckily the only information concerning Wolf MP so far was "(...) it follows into the footsteps of Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory(...)". It is objective based gameplay we all want and what they confirmed already. Now there seem to be some more or less new information regarding the multiplayer which have to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Over at Wolfenstein-Zone.com a discussion about the multiplayer and especially its engine started with two possibilities for the engine. ID Tech 4 was sure to be used but that engine is quite aged and was used in different games already with different tasks. We had DOOM 3 and QUAKE 4 in which the engine was used first and was able to run small environments. From troubles to give more than four players the possibility to mess in DOOM 3, to a miscarried start of QUAKE 4 in competition further on to a quite enjoyable patched QUAKE 4 in the end; the engine feels smooth now but still lacks the possibility of running wide areas.
Enemy Territory: QUAKE Wars was next to make use of ID Tech 4; a modified one of course, as that engine was now able to run huge maps packed with many players and even vehicles. Nevertheless, the smoothness of games like RtCW and W:ET using the QUAKE 3 (ID Tech 3) engine or even the patched QUAKE 4 was lost. One of the main factor for ET:QW's missing success in competition was for certain the engine used.
So we had two possibilities of which engine Wolf MP would make use of; a QUAKE 4 based engine which should guarantee smoothness or the newer engine of ET:QW which was able to run big environment. Since Raven software also created QUAKE 4 it seemed obvious of which engine they would make use of. On the other side took Activison Endrant Studios into development who were known to be mainly former Splash Damage employees. And SD again used the modified ID Tech 4 engine to create ET:QW. Within the discussion a user popped up who claimed to be an ex staff member of Activision. He said to have been in touch with the Wolfenstein development and presented his knowledge about the game (end of 2007) which is quite amazing as nearly nothing concerning the MP part was reveiled by now.
According to his knowledge Wolfenstein will in fact be built on a QUAKE 4 alike engine formerly used by Raven already, but now of course tweaked and upgraded - for the singleplayer part. Yes Raven is most likely only concerned with the SP not the MP; "except for modeling Axis and Resistance player models". Reasons for that have been that Ravens tweaked engine was never able to run network games online. At that time Threewave were included in Wolf MP and have been quite fast in development as they already finnished the biggest MP part in 2007 together with a couple of maps. They finished their work on Wolf MP when it already got a beta status.
Edrant studios was then assigned to complete their work in close cooperation to Raven. However Raven was not able to close the gap that fast as the singleplayer development was even in the middle of 2008 at pre alpha status. At least the QuakeCon trailer and paper magazine articles all show the pre-alpha. Wolf MP and ET:QW have been in development at the same time sharing the same engine - what could lead to the guess of an ET:QW alike engine for Wolf MP. And in fact the Wolfenstein MP part will be built on that engine - according to that forum user ("... The ET:QW engine was optimized for online play, so it was an obvious choice for Wolf MP, with larger draw distances").
Moreover he lifted some information about the gameplay. According to him there will be no Axis versus Allies in Wolfenstein but Resistance versus Axis. This could be quite true as the resistant fighters are also main characters within singleplayer. Next to the two fighting parties he claimed to know about the classes that will be featured in Wolf MP. As a difference to RtCW and W:ET there will 'only' be three classes available in Wolfenstein to choose from. Of course that has not to mean there will be Soldier/Medic/Engineer only. The known abilities from RtCW and W:ET could be distributed to that three classes. For example could a Medic then call for an Airstrike as well or something like that. Some abilities may be left aside and some others could be added.
For most of us his statement about no vehicles being used in Wolf MP should be quite joyful. Furthermore there should be no megatextures be used (what should already make the custom mappers happy) as the map size is not compareable with ET:QW, anyway. "Map sizes are roughly on par with RTCW maps (settings like Chemical Factory, City Canals, Hospital, Downtown Bank Plaza, etc.)". The people that screamed for small maps like in RtCW should now get a smile onto their faces. Small maps could as well increase the engine performance as wide areas and vehicles could have caused that 'un-smoothness' in ET:QW.
Next to the map size, the objectives could be comparable to RtCW as well. "Objective based gameplay remains (Destroy the wall, bunker door, fire the cannon, steal the documents, device, etc.)" For the people that feared a Capture the flag alike Wolf MP cause Threewave was involved that news should let them breathe deeply now. Next to the main objectives which mostly open new map areas there should as well be 'sub-objectives' again so the Engineer does not run out of work "(build the MG42, construct a ladder, pick the lock, repair the bridge, blow the bridge)".
The playersize for Wolfenstein should be limited by 16 what makes a public gameplay of eight versus eight players possible and of course our beloved 6vs6 mode for competition. Whether that player limitation depends on the engine, the netcode or the map size is not sure though. Custom map developers should easily be able to create bigger sized maps for public gameplay in case it does not depend on the engines abilities or the netcode, as mentioned.
The known Experience Points (XP) from Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory will be found in Wolfenstein multiplayer as well. "Players earn XP during campaign mode that can be used to upgrade to other weapons, build deployables, etc." Whether the XP system will be like the one in ET or comparable to CoD4 or even ET:QW (ranked servers) is not known yet. Deployables will be not totally new to RtCW and ET gameplay as that deployables can be for example an MG nest, a spawn area or a radar station. How much impact they may have, remains to be seen.
Now that we have all those new information (which I say again should be handled with care), we can accentuate the engine which sounds not that good to most of us on first sight but might be quite enjoyable since only small maps will be used. On the other side we have the gameplay we want, that let us hope for a nice Wolfenstein successor in 2009 confirmed by Activision.
interesting tho so i think i will print it and read on toilet while shitting
FUCK IM ON A ROLL!
Ubersoldier wtf?
Yes I have. But rarely :) and more rarely in English.
Nice column btw :)
this could be a very big success
but playing with 6 members is more fun.
so what we are? a cs/bf community or a proud et community?
i prefer 6o6
(i hope you can understand my retartsentences :/ )
Anyway I enjoyed reading your article as I always do when reading your workouts. Well done!
Good column - I generally seen most of the comments made as potentially positive, although I do fear the gameplay of RtCW/ET may be dumbed down a bit. Hopefully not too much that it's no longer enjoyable. So long as the basics of the gameplay remain and the engine allows good, fast movement it should do fine.
There will always be many ET/RtCW devotees who don't like it, even if it's the same game with new graphics (which it won't, and more to the point, shouldn't be). What I have seen and read, however, leaves me with hope that a majority of ET/RtCW players will like it, in the long run.
so true. not completely, but cs:s was killed by cs1.6 and we can easily tell it was the same game. that way people would just stick to what they are used to [might even due to the fact that some 'noname' players would own them hard, so they give the whole thing up easily - was more or less the same with me, i pwnd the whole hungarian 1.6 scene @ cs:s and they all went back to play 1.6 :D]
Anyways I hope that the movement is not that slow as it appeared to be in the trailer..
new etqw...
i hope nothing will be like et.
i hope everything will be like rtcw
20% = shit
#2 dont talk about the engine, based on that text you have no idea where it's going
#3 dont talk about the engine
"The playersize for Wolfenstein should be limited by 16"
My dreams of reliving 35 man pub glory days are crushed. :(
"The playersize for Wolfenstein should be limited by 16"
My dreams of reliving 35 man pub glory days are crushed. :(
:)
Even ET:QW handled up to 32 players
Great column, but there is however one issue which has not been touched in this, which I think thwarts us as competitive players; the fact that competitive players are almost never the target group for games.
It is not the competitive gamers which increase the number of copies being sold, it is the vast casual gamer market, which is why all newer first person shooters tend to be crappy from the beginning. Therefore it is most imperative that a good modding team is either connected to the development team, like Treyarch are doing with CoD:WW, or that the modding team is ready to do their work just after the release.
The question which now springs into mind is, will bani and his team of magicians be ready to rescue us once again, or will someone else take the baton and succeed in making us competitive gamers happy.
Returning to the issue that it is the casual gamers which causes the revenue to rise for the game companies. I cannot stop thinking about the fact that better graphics, easier game play (as Adacore mentioned) and the likes will turn this game into another disaster like some other ID brand games. I know that the issue about better graphics is a somewhat vague thing to bring in, but I for certain do not buy a game for its graphics; I guess this is because I am a product of quake :). I do however know other people, also competitive players, who will only buy a game if it looks good.
So where am I going with this... I don't know, I'd better stop now.
Hannes who made ET:QW Pro has shown interest in modding for Wolfenstein, regardless of what people think of ET:QW he did very good job in making it more playable for us who wanted to stick with the game and play it competitively.
I haven't clue if Bani & co have looked into modding in idtech4 but surely it would make sense if someone who has already made a successful competition mod (successful in that it made the game better for comp') with this engine to make the comp mod for Wolfenstein.
That is pure honesty about the ET:QW engine and I knew it before it came out(if you read my forum post @ SD). They failed like I predicted :P, another game which is like Enemy Territory would be great. They should look into hiring MAPPERS from the scene to work with them, because TBH the maps custom made are the best by far for competitions.
They need to listen and learn and not make the same mistake AGAIN.
But the Tech 3 - Engine may live on with slightly improved graphics in form of Quake Live and, if we are lucky, W:ET Live...
I don't think you play QL in your browser, you just start it from there afaik. And I wouldn't mind a graphically improved W:ET on Tech 3 with some additional functions, just in case Wolfenstein isn't really what I want it to be...
Atm the casual player rather wants "tactical realism", unlockables and stats, rather then skilled aiming and strafe - jumping, while no publisher is interested in releasing pure mp games. Hardcore shooters might only survive in the form of free games with low system requirements. I sure hope that Wolfenstein will be good and a success, but I do not really count on it.
Edit: Of course the current trend in online - shooters might be due to the fact that there hasn't been released a good skill based shooter for years now, if Wolfenstein MP is good, it might fill a huge gap. The success of Team Fortress 2 shows, that many mainstream gamers can accept an unrealistic shooter.
wewp wewp
If that's not the case we can always mod and shape it in the way we want it to be!
Can send you them if interested?
EDIT, been reading through them forums, seems a lot of hate a misinformation about ET:QW engine, having mapped using it, it wouldn't be a bad choice to make MP maps with, certainly better than Q4/D3 was.
Megatextures aren't compulsory either, I've made 2 maps now without them. Even with them they don't hurt performance as much as people would think, having large open maps are no problem either thanks to the LOD grouping feature that stops things been rendered after a specified distance.
ET:QW Pro shows how good ET:QW could have been and I seem to remember Q4 didn't start out well either, although I never played online it so I'm going on what I remember others saying after that was released. And from reading what people are saying now Q4 engine was eventually made good, why can't this be the same for ET:QW engine?
I got some concept art material as well, dunno if yours differs from that. Would be nice if you could send it though :)
dont know shit about these things, just randomly acting that i know something.
thanks for the writeup!
hurry up activision get it bloody released