Yesterday, my column got deleted, which honestly, I expected to happen, but I thought that it would at least raise some bigger discussion about the way maplists are decided for major tournaments. Seeing that it didn't, I decided to throw out one more issue that's been bugging me in the interest of seeing how will people react to it.
As the title says, it's a column about how to make Bremen better...
First off, a bit of history, Bremen_b1 was released around 2007, and if I remember correctly it was first used in CPC2 LAN tournament. The map became pretty popular, backed up and liked by top teams, it had it's place set in the maplist. But then came the Mobile MG trouble from the Cadred! Their team and namely twidi, started using the mobile mg on almost every stage of the defense(and attack), including 1st stage. They were a pretty good team on all maps, would even say that they were easily top 3 team in the times of TLR, dignitas, impact etc. But the usage of the MG made them notorious and almost hated by furious legions of people. The whine got so bad, that the creator of the map listened, and changed the map in a way that makes MG less effective. The changes included a wall on first stage that doesn't allow the flag defender to shoot the allies attacking from the side corridor. An additional entrance to generator room, that allows allies to avoid crossfire on the main road, some ground changes near the notorious mg room(we still call it that way in my team) that made sure that MG can't be used so easily as it was before.
The notorious MG room on Bremen_b1 without "ground" changes:
After those fixes, most teams that used MG, moved it do the key room, and shot the middle road from there. Later MG was removed from the competitive leagues and people used different tactics.
After all this, I have gotten to the main point of the column. You see, Bremen_b2 didn't only change those things, but changed something else. It added this wall shown in the picture in the last axis spawn. It was made so that the Axis could defend truck easier, but what it did, is made the middle stage of the map, and key defense(after losing Command Post) much, much harder for Axis. It basically removed a 2nd quick exit from the spawn, so when you take a keycard anywhere close to Axis spawntime(even after they have spawned), you are almost guaranteed to run away with it. It's just impossible for Axis to chase you, and shoot in your back when they have to climb over this wall, or try and exit the only quick exit, which is getting spammed by rifle and grenades. That means, the map removes one good stage with a doc run, that could actually be interesting.
Bremen_b1 version without the wall:
Bremen_b2 version with the wall:
So here's my idea, make that wall build-able for Axis, give teams the option of not having it while defending keycard/middle stage, and the ability to build it when they want to close that exit to defend the truck easier if they so choose. Now, I'm not saying this will make the map awesome and playable in 5on5, but why not try it? Maybe even bring the more open b1 back and add the build-able wall option in that version?
Anyways, I wanted to share this idea for a while already so here it is.
As the title says, it's a column about how to make Bremen better...
First off, a bit of history, Bremen_b1 was released around 2007, and if I remember correctly it was first used in CPC2 LAN tournament. The map became pretty popular, backed up and liked by top teams, it had it's place set in the maplist. But then came the Mobile MG trouble from the Cadred! Their team and namely twidi, started using the mobile mg on almost every stage of the defense(and attack), including 1st stage. They were a pretty good team on all maps, would even say that they were easily top 3 team in the times of TLR, dignitas, impact etc. But the usage of the MG made them notorious and almost hated by furious legions of people. The whine got so bad, that the creator of the map listened, and changed the map in a way that makes MG less effective. The changes included a wall on first stage that doesn't allow the flag defender to shoot the allies attacking from the side corridor. An additional entrance to generator room, that allows allies to avoid crossfire on the main road, some ground changes near the notorious mg room(we still call it that way in my team) that made sure that MG can't be used so easily as it was before.
The notorious MG room on Bremen_b1 without "ground" changes:
After those fixes, most teams that used MG, moved it do the key room, and shot the middle road from there. Later MG was removed from the competitive leagues and people used different tactics.
After all this, I have gotten to the main point of the column. You see, Bremen_b2 didn't only change those things, but changed something else. It added this wall shown in the picture in the last axis spawn. It was made so that the Axis could defend truck easier, but what it did, is made the middle stage of the map, and key defense(after losing Command Post) much, much harder for Axis. It basically removed a 2nd quick exit from the spawn, so when you take a keycard anywhere close to Axis spawntime(even after they have spawned), you are almost guaranteed to run away with it. It's just impossible for Axis to chase you, and shoot in your back when they have to climb over this wall, or try and exit the only quick exit, which is getting spammed by rifle and grenades. That means, the map removes one good stage with a doc run, that could actually be interesting.
Bremen_b1 version without the wall:
Bremen_b2 version with the wall:
So here's my idea, make that wall build-able for Axis, give teams the option of not having it while defending keycard/middle stage, and the ability to build it when they want to close that exit to defend the truck easier if they so choose. Now, I'm not saying this will make the map awesome and playable in 5on5, but why not try it? Maybe even bring the more open b1 back and add the build-able wall option in that version?
Anyways, I wanted to share this idea for a while already so here it is.
edit: added flags
and why are you that rude? its a fact that youre not the brightest bulb in the box eh
+1 for you.
they fixed it there
the oldschool one (not that sw_ shit)
hb mate :)
e: bremen needs some major changes for it to become good in 5on5
even b1 would be fine with that buildable wall, but b2 is also ok with that
Maybe he can make exceptions though, eim & snake made sp_delivery_te without permission(?) and we are using it official so... :D
So first try to see if the permission is granted, then we can continue thinking about the map changes.
agreed though, b1 is > b2
Regarding your other column about getting top players in to the admin team here on Crossfire, the door is very much open to the right man. When I joined CF I was playing Eurocup RTCW, When Adacore joined he was running/playing OC/EC ET, When Sol joined he was in Idle, when Decem joined he was in EC. There is a very well trodden path for top players to migrate into the CF admin team, there simply needs to be the right candidate.
(fyi I am still a top player, I just dont chose to play well)
?
If i would run such a big competition i would ask all captains of topteams to decide or discuss it.
Hi m8:))
Fatgames, is, was, and remains a separate company.[/b]
Just so we clear that up.
Why i created an account is that after clicking resend for password recovery, no such email ever arrived therefore i needed to make an account, hence the new account.
I know it's THEIR WORK and stuff, but what good is it if it's a map in a game that isn't played, and let's face it, new maps(or fixed ones) is one of the things that would prolong ET's life
DO YOU AGREE?
Good times.
a load of maps were not played properly competitively - because it didnt fit the style of the game or the way teams played etc. but could work with ET
maps like Dam, Axis complex maybe even the really unplayed customs like Horus could work in ET - there are hundreds of customs - lots were pretty good but just not right for rtcw could be a winner for et though ;)
maybe talk to some good mapper (like eiM :D) maybe you are able to convert 2 or 3 maps to et and give it a try
and make a MG in the "window room" in one of the windows :p
Buildable wall > b2.
Probably some other maps that could do with some changes to bring them back? karsiah and dubrov were not too far off imo.
go back to 6on6
besides when ure maus in an EC final :D
but good idea tbh, maybe good for a new poll??
then we need to know which parts suck in a 5on5
then we need to know what we can do to make it better
tbh i dont know why some people here are saying that bremen sucks in a 5on5 (hi2u ensam)
i think it would be easier to find a solution if you tell us the "stupid parts"
sw_bremen and all problems are solved
and that mg pic needs a another pic of 6 onesoldier corpses to make it perfect
+
a 2nd spawnpoint for axis last stage....i hate that spawncamp stuff
What about adding other axis spawnpoint just like on radar. Would be awesome map then.
By the way - I've always tried to keep Bremen in the Crossfire Challenge mappool for past events. The reason it was in the CPC2 map pool was because it was the winner of the CPC2 mapping competition. Thus I've always felt it is a 'Crossfire' map that should be used in Crossfire events. I didn't voice that opinion for this event because I wasn't convinced the map would work 5v5.
I would like to hear dersaiden's opinion on the second spawn though as I don't think he'll agree with that.
There's only 2 options in the current maplay-out if you ask me and that's either on the other side of the truck which would make it to close to keycard & cp. Or you'd have ta add some building behind the truck and then it would be to close to the truck...
and make the truck destructable like a tank, or make it possible to place landmines in the dark area
e: well the spawnpart is nice but no landmines :<
If i'm correct, might be wrong since i haven't played mr_men in about a year :D
omFG :DDDDDDDDDDDDD crazy song
and if axis were to build it then that means allies would be able to blow it up????. cause thats stupid, id rather use the other 3 options i have . OR even if you were to say "oh no the axis build it and it stays permanent" id rather have it kept to just being there all the time, other than having another fucking objective to do.
its like on supply, axis build depot fence at the back and the allies usually never blow it up, rather go the easy way or simply just tj it which rarely happens usually only in a crazy hold and someone wants to be super duper sneaky.
i'm sorry but this option does not benefit anyone.
like if the map went back to the old one then i have no problems but i just can't agree with your idea.
( THIS IS JUST MY OPINION )
but the most important is to play it 6o6
Its probably also time to take the map to final release (if it turns out that the wall thing is a bad idea a mapscript could make it permanent again, so still safe to release as final in that respect).
At least those noobs that did the knock off release made it bremen_final.pk3, so the correct bremen.pk3 is available for an official release.
However, I'm very busy atm and my free time is going into another project.
I would be happy to provide an experienced mapper with the map source to make the changes (I can't remember if there were any other fixes required, beyond the newest mapscript), and do an official release (eiM or Chr1s, talk on IRC if either of you guys would like to do it).
There is no logical explanation as far as I am concerned, its a good map, compared to FB/Braun/Delivery anyhow