Spawntimes, what?
This is something most of you probably know already but let's introduce the topic a little anyway. Spawntimes are one of the most important factors in ET, was it 2on2, 3on3 or 6on6. I'm a 3on3 player so I know only a little about 6on6 but more or less the same principles apply. Every example in this article is about 3on3 games. And just for the record: I don't believe in bad spawntimes that much, I'm not paranoid about them and I don't blame them for a loss. They do play a role though and that's a fact. Also, every scenario and example I introduce here is a huge simplification so don't trip over them please.
Spawntimes should pretty much affect every decision you do ingame, as an individual and as a team. The opponent's spawntime is equally important to your own and most of the time it's the combination of the two that matters. Getting the opponent's spawntime early on the game is very valuable info as you're then able to make much better decisions ingame. Spawntime combinations between your team and the opponents team aren't random in ET, but practically close enough. Everybody who plays competitive ET knows what "bad" spawntime means and what it looks like. You feel you can't do anything that specific spawn and the opponent can push out very efficiently without having to risk anything. For example, you're defending and the opponent spawns in 3-10 seconds - you can stall them for the 10 seconds and once you tap out you can regain your original positions and the opponent has to attack either full spawn or tap out for more health and ammo. That's a very different scenario from the situation if you spawned at the same time. I won't go into theory of bad spawntimes any further but I believe everybody can recognize the perfect spawntime from the worst spawntime. Adlernest 3on3 last stage objective defense is a prime example where a spawntime can make a big difference.
So what's the problem?
The problem with spawntimes is that it's a random factor yet it's ever so important. Consider two theoretically exactly same skill level teams and give one of them the worst spawn time possible. What if that would mean the team with bad spawn time would lose 80% of the matches? Nobody knows what's the effect is in practice and how big of a role spawn times play, but what if it actually was significant? ET is played in bo3 so bad luck can come your way very easily, meaning two maps back to back with poor spawn time.
The problem itself is the fact that the spawntimes are periodical with 20 s and 30 s intervals. For every minute, allies spawns 3 times and axis spawns 2 times (let's just consider the most played maps here). Then the spawn time combinations repeat and repeat by every minute. If you have a spawn time in which you can push out very efficiently that can pretty much ruin 2/3 of allies spawns. Let's consider the first spawn: you're defending and you push out so that you have 11 seconds time to harass the allies who all just spawned. They're then delayed for some seconds, wasted half of their ammo, have no charge and maybe low health. Who knows if you managed to kill one. You then tap out and have enough time to regain your positions and get ready for allies to come. However, they're late to attack for their short spawn and they're short on resources to do that. If they tap out you might manage to push a little again or if they don't they'll be full spawn and most likely won't push for that. If they did attack fullspawn and died (which they would, because low) you'd be able to push out again with no worries whatsoever. They'd probably wait until they have a short spawn time and then manage to attack. At that time, it's been 40 seconds after the scenario started and you would respawn in one second. So until this point the defending side has had the upper hand by quite a margin. The next spawn would then be more 'even', if you will. This is just an example that the game is affected by spawntimes for longer than just the one spawn. Also you might argue that it's not spawntime's fault as they were full in the first place, and so forth, but you get the point.
But the thing is, this combination of spawn times will keep on occurring until the round ends. On some defense stages such as supply 1st stage or goldrush 1st stage the static spawn time combinations are not a very good feature in the game, especially if you're on the receiving end. You can spend more than 5 minutes in one stage and the situation is static as far as spawn times are considered. Of course there's ways to overcome and cope with this but all of which results in compromised overall team performance.
Solution
With current ET, the same spawntime combinations occur every 60 seconds. For a long time now I've had an idea of how this could be avoided and most of the random factor in spawntimes could be removed. Introduce different spawn time intervals, such as 21 for allies and 30 for axis. By doing this you would make the game more dynamic and have more matches at more even terms as at some point of the game each time will have a good and a bad spawn time. This might also result in getting less jammed in one stage and it would enable maybe more versatile tactics and more need to react to changing conditions. In other words, it could be more challenging and interesting for both sides and at the same time it would remove most of the randomness about spawn times. I don't know about how this can be implemented, but I believe it's doable.
The shorter the spawn time, the better? No, not necessarily. When you're defending, yeah, probably. But when you're attacking, shortening the spawn time doesn't always favor you at all. Look at braundorf 3on3 for example, if you had 25 second spawn time when attacking the last stage, you could actually attack in 25 seconds or so. As it is now, it requires 40 seconds for each proper attack, given that the axis are defending the bunker. If you had a 5 second longer spawn, it could end up being much better. Vice versa, making the spawntime interval longer could actually help you as it gives you more time to attack without having to worry about getting full spawn.
Why 21/30? Nobody knows how changing spawn times could change the game dynamics. At least I don't. Maybe they have a drastic effect, maybe next to none. Either way, to have any benefit from the change, the spawn time combinations would need to change rather quick. Therefore 20/29 or 20/31 are out of question as then the spawn time would change too slowly, dismissing the calculations here. Have 19/31 or 21/29, it sure changes quick but maybe even too quick and above all, that kind of change would probably result big changes in the game play itself. Now I don't know about 6on6, but in 3on3 I personally wouldn't mind having a one second more second to engineer the attacks. And certainly 19 might be too little, simply because just how many times do you wish you had few more seconds to continue the attack! With 21/30 the spawntime relatively would change 3 seconds per minute which sounds pretty optimal to me. Longer spawntime might contribute to allies team more than axis, but the effect of course varies map to map and stage to stage.
Summary
ET has one random factor above others and that's spawntime. By having 21/30 intervals with allies and axis respectively, you could rule this random factor out pretty efficiently. If the change is implemented, some wise minds should choose what the try-out intervals would be, 21/30 is my proposal. Maybe have different spawntime intervals in 3on3 and 6on6 config. Somebody who knows how to implement these changes, let us know how it's possible! By making the 21/30 change, I don't see any negative effects despite the change in game dynamics. However, the downside is probably negligible compared to possible positive effects. I don't think there's anybody opposing the removal of spawntime randomness.
Down to you then, give me your thoughts if this idea is any good and what you think. I wrote this in a rush without even proof reading it so please excuse my mistakes beforehand, but the point is below in the last chapter. Those who know better feel free to correct me!
TL;DR
Change spawntime intervals 20/30 -> 21/30. Removes random factor of spawntimes and spices up the game. Oky?
Photo vriend, hoe is het?
Apart from that, even though I don't play active ET I don't think this would change anything. It might 'catch people off guard' for about a month or so but then people get the hang of this new spawntimes system and your back to how it was? There were some maps with other spawntimes than the normal 20/30 and that had close to no effect on how those maps played out? At-least not in my experience :P
I'd rather see a merger(fusion, brainfart at a better word right now) between RtCW and ET. A config for ET that makes the game(meta) slightly faster, slightly spammier, slighty more teamplay based than the current seemingly more individual skill based scene.
By faster I mean more than just walking/sprinting speed, also things like fire rate and other things. By spammier I mean f.e the LT/fops in RtCW can throw a strike at just over half his charge bar. Part of me loves this weapons as I played it for some teams but I wouldn't have a problem with seeing riflenades removed completely.
In my opinion et is still teamplay based game very much, too much for me imo.
The difference between what you're saying and what I am saying is to make a teamplay based game really about teamplay and not about individual skill. What you are saying is making a teamplay based game rely more on individual skill which completely beats the point of the game.
Well, not. The point is that the 21s spawntime for attacking side changes the bad spawntime pattern at some point, which would definately make the game more interesting. For defending side it wouldnt bring much new.
-Time a nade 1 sec before ennemy ST
-AS/FEE
-Push your ennemy before you spawn so you can get back to good spots after respawning
Imo this game is not about having a good or a bad spawn time. Some players have understood how to play with a bad spawn time for a long time. These players can do much more things than the three exemple that I said before. No matter what you do when you have a bad spawn time you can win if you are better than your opponents in decision making as a team.
So yes, I don't think bad stimes is a problem atleast not in 3v3... The problem is the lack of knowledge concerning stimes.
That's just stupid thing to say, I mean you always have a chance to win right if there is enough time to set the objective? -_- Bad spawntimes been problem for the past 10 year, now some genius come around saying "it's not a problem officer!" I don't really see any equally skilled teams setting time on supply if having bad spawntime :d hard enough with a good spawntime also, why? Because axis have actually seriously too many stages where they can def and play time, I'm not saying its a bad thing, it makes the map somewhat more interesting, even tho i like maps where you can fuck up really fast also, but idd supply gives too much chances for axis to rebuild their defence.
I know you didnt talk about supply in general, but in my opinion supply + bad spawntime is the worst thing you can get. Maybe you are superly skilledly good then and bad spawntimes don't have any effect on your playing, but for the majority it's a big pain in the ass especially when playing vs equally skilled or vs a bit better guys
Genius is done
Genius is done
I dont know why I even replied to you, you must be trolling or then just stupid
Even if you have a bad st you can still manage to win the game with good team play, better aim, better shape, luck because oppos did a mistake, just because you are better in the end...
Spawn times are not a problem for everyone and it's a fact, it doesn't make me a genius to think like that, I just have a different opinion.
And no, I don't think that understanding how to play with bad st is a knowledge given to every players on this game. And even if one player in a team can understand that, it's a really hard task to make it understand to the others when you have to lead.
tl;dr: 3hs everyone > bad st gg
mapscripts. anyways i would do diff allies spawntimess because on other maps it does a job (frost, ice, beach). just need to calculate and test it and it would be fine + it would force ppl to set etpro spawntimer.
i just remember offis where i was able to beat 4 minute time on goldrush in 2on2 because of good spawntime
anyways, we need to test it. people are afraid of changes but look for example in csgo/lol - u need to get used to new patch for example
Edit: On a second thought, I'm not so sure about "easy to implement" if you have to deal with that whole certification hassle. I'm not sure how much of a problem that is.
People that dont use etpro spawntimers should, i think that is mostly them being lazy.
Offtopic: I think most important config change would be to up max timelimit on maps that regularly get fullheld, prime example is supply in 3on3. Make it 15 minutes or something.
Goal should be that all maps are equally easy to fullhold. Maybe then you can actually pick those maps, without being afraid that one map is going to determine the match.
its obvious that some maps are being fullheld more often than others and its big difference and not ideal
Maybe some maps do need a timelimit change, not necessarily disagreeing, but that might just result in those maps getting fullheld longer. Maybe in 3on3 format supply allied spawntime should be reduced so that they have more possible attack pressure within the same timelimit. If the balance of the map isn't great the timelimit probably isn't the option as that won't change the playstyle of the map, will just make it longer. Atleast that's how I see the timelimit thing.
Don't know about the timelimit thing, at least supply used to be much more exciting when there was 15 min time to attack still (hopefully my memory aint failing me here) and I don't remember having so many fullholds on 3v3! Nowadays it's pretty much insta fullhold if there aint some lucky grenades to catch axis on full, but lets say with basic attacking allies have smaller chances to set a time than axis with a basic defence, that aint balanced in my opinion
Changing the balance means changing how the map is played, not how long it is played. An actual balance change would mean making attacking different(easier if the balance is in favor of axis too much) for allies not giving them more time to keep doing the same thing. A radical change would for example be to, like dunno the 1st stage put the gate you have to dynamite on the allied side of the building(the opening under the window, instead of on the back side).
I feel most of these things mostly if not only apply to 3on3 supply btw. Also we are talking about fullholds. but are we talking about double fullholds or just a team fullholding the other. If its double fullholds clearly the balance is simply off but if its the other than it's probably just a better team fullholding a lesser team and this whole discussion is pointless...
i do agree that timelimit is not always all there is to it. for example getting a really good cp defence in gr in incredibly hard to break and i feel like the map is kinda random if you get that or not and its simply too difficult to attack in high lvl games. then again theres also skill involved in getting to such favorable spots so its not too bad. actually its hard for anything to be too bad but we are talking about fine tuning the game here..
I only ever used the red timer on frostbite. To me, people using the red timer are the lazy ones :O)
Let's take supply first stage (one of the worst offenders). Some spawntime combinations basically mean that you only have a chance at taking the stage every one out of three spawns because of the distinct advantage the Axis side has. Now of course it takes some planning to be able to push on that spawn, but what if the opponent knows this and anticipates for it properly? It's nigh impossible to take a stage barring some rifle luck/aim luck if the teams are truly 'equally skilled'. Of course they won't be able to perfectly hold you off the entire map but you can lose some valuable time that might make it harder for you to defend (in the case of supply 3v3 a double fullhold is so common it's ridiculous) if you were to have a worse spawntime than they did on Axis.
Didn't you have an article about this like 6 years ago and not a single person who could make a difference even bothered to do something about this issue?
anyway i fail to see the logic, you need to actually make an argument why spawntimes dont matter
Yes you can win games with a bad spawntime, but it would help make ET more balanced.
dumbest idea ever, ban
Anyone who thinks this is a bad idea needs to spend some more time on skilled matches (especially in 3on3 or 2on2).
Hi!
Having a variable spawntime combination would somewhat fix this issue e.g. the allied team should be able to get the flag at some point on Supply even if the starting spawtimes were bad. A map like TC_Base would still be shit though.
Before that time these spawntime problems existed as well however ET and the maps weren't as optimized (overplayed) yet. Meaning it wasn't really that noticeable with different tactics still being viable and teams/individuals not being as good and still making mistakes.