It's really sad that kids die in africa, but please do me a favour and stop pulling that card. There are and always will be problems that are "more important" over others that doesn't prevent us from trying to solve other problems, does it?
Anyway, R.I.P for everyone who died a non-natural death.
i just want to say ofc R.I.P. for everyone that dies to young but if i see things like this in the news or journals it just makes me think like have to care more for that thats why im saying there are plenty of things so dont blow it up. Dont know if it happend here but happens alot.
Same with family of the queen, always that stories oh how bad but it sadly happens everyday.
In my opinion death = death. There are deaths that could certainly be avoided, but it doesn't make one death worse than the other. I think everybody deserves to be cared for, no matter where you live.
And yes, the cause of death can be worse than another, agreed, thought about that too, once I had sent my comment. Anyway I am too tired to explain what I mean, I am sorry ;p
Well, we could do something about Africa, there is enough money & food & medicine for everyone on the planet. But it is just so more easier to not to talk about it. Thus it is not a tragedy, unlike some accident.
kids in africa dying is inevitable due to the poor economical state in the countries - its a common thing. it takes way more time to establish a good system of economy and education which makes the most of each country's resources, while its way easier to simply pass a law or anything about driving/drivers/roads in switzerland. it is way easier to affect the latter as a random citizen in eu, while the former requires expert planning/counseling/diplomatic collaboration, which is why it should be in news websites such as the one youve linked. how much do you actually honestly care about children in africa dying? i know i dont much myself, that is how it has been for ages, that is how it was hundreds of years ago in europe, that is how it will be until the countries get on their feet.
oh come off, it's actually far fewer people dying in africa than everyone's (at least for deseases that is) "who" have actually only guessed the numbers, but in the region where supposely most people should have died there were barely any people dying of it.
ps: constantly reminding everyone doesn't necessarily make people realise the gravity in it, it can also cause them to grow acustomed to it
i believe i do, yea.
though i'm certain that you wouldn't like my overall point on the africa-topic :/
(in short it's something like - "why stay?". there more to it, jsut not in his comment (obviously))
i actually meant "more to" my opinion. and apparently most of the people either are too afraid to spill it out or actually think differently, otherwise why would so many "support them"?!
my point is, for generations they have realised that the living conditions are close to not bareable but yet they stay (be it tradition or pride or stubborness). they actually decide to stay, it's not that they simply can't. (not saying "everyone can achieve anything and we're all equal bla bla, but moving from point A, where you have close to nothing, to point B to start over again doesn't strike me as a big deal. (sure the question also is "who would take them?" but within africa there still are some places you're better off than in the middle of nowhere, starving dehydrating or dying of deseases because of the environment they live in.
sure do, not saying ALL of them and not to the same place, but there are not exactly many people living in the sahara, why is that so?!
if you have a look at our system in the western world what do you notice when it comes to ambitions? that most strives for being the best at something or trying to improve and be noticed and acknowledged, and only a fraction accepting that the system is flawed and that they are at their peak and can't get any further.
but then you take a look at africa (well those clichee places we're currently reffering to) and see that most people jsut try to get along, pretty hopelessly born, i know it sounds harsh but that's how a great deal of them are, they try to get along, live through the day and survive as long as they can within the current situation. they're not trying to change the situation (even if it was not possible to escape, mankind got the concept of "hope" for a reason imo. and i don't mean hope that "one day something will change" because in their case it's very naive, but hope that there is something better somewhere not somewhen")
it's not like they're a collective and decided that if not everyone gets to live a better live together, then noone is going anywhere and that it's a social dilemma instead.
its kind of hard to have ambitions if you don't even have food or water for the day, other than getting something to eat. there is not much they can do about it to change their situations, if there is no help from outside.
well then don't support life in that environment and try to adjust it one by one but help them actually improve instead (and by that i actually mean get somewhere else, otherwise you could indeed just bring everyone into the sahara and try funding that life. at least it's peaceful and sterile in that place -.-)
some parts of africa aren't the best areas to live, thats probably true, but it's also not impossible. if they got the right support by the world their lifes would improve a lot. probably those sterotype regions will never become anything like germany. but with at least some level of education their world would look entirely different within a few decades.
the greener areas sure are, though i'm not reffering to those, rather to the dry and waste places where vegetation is hard to come by and water even harder.
that's my point exactly, do you see anyone spending millions on wells in your area? (well obviously not because they're not necessary, and why is that? because you live in a region where there is plenty of water. and why do you live there? except that it's just a place like any other place here? lets say why do 'we' live here; because it's a rather comfortable place, easy conditions and what not.
that brings us to two questions (imo) why do they live not in a rather simmilar place? (probably because those were taken already or because they're not around, then why not try to find them instead, that's what people did before they cultivated those places) and why do they stay and not just keep on moving?
yeah in theory you may be right, but we're talking about human beings here, and maybe millions of them.
how should they move some countries to north or south? walk a few months/years to a place where they are not welcome? and also, they wont have anything to eat while traveling... doesnt sound like a good plan to me.
they do not have "anything" to eat now either. and as i said, "where" might be a problem, but not all places in africa are f* up and/or hating on immigrants.
besides, as i said, peoples were travelling before they settled down at a somewhat nice place, it seems to me a bit that they quit mid-game, time to bring them back on the road until they reach where everyone else reached eventually
besides food packages are being sent now, why not supply them as long they're moving?!
I mean, I get your point and maybe that would be a solution that's better than letting those people suffer and just die. but it will not work.
you can't take enough food with you to walk 2.000 or 5.000 kilometers to a place where its better to live. and there is no drive in fast food restaurants on the way either ;)
biggest problem is though when they arrive. even germany couldn't take 100,000 refugees without ending up in total chaos, how is any african country/state gonna solve that?
i believe most of the african contries would be more able to take those refugees than germany would, just because everything here is so organised and planned (not saying it's well done, but still^^). they would affect our country more than they would affact the ones there. (besides our country is f* small it a bit too far out of reach) to live here you need far more than just survival skills, but those are the skills they currently have, so they'd need an environment where those apply, just not as drastically as the current one. just a greener place, thats what i mean.
and you don't need THAT much to walk 2000km, and once in a while you could stock them up, sure they're not at one spot anymore, but how hard can it be to keep track of a few million people walking in 4 directions, build check points if you like
those countries might have space, but don't have anything else. there is (almost) no industry, no jobs, no schools, no money, not enough food for refugees - unless you send them, which means their situation/ambitions wouldnt change much.
they would, for a simple reason - the land is cultivatable. it's a base, and a cheap one too, for life. you can plant crops in a stone, it's expensive and hard to do and even harder to keep it alive, but it's possible. but it's easier to just plant it in moist earth, yet we and they are trying to find a soloution to have them have their crops in the stone, for what ever reason
What does that have to do with anything? Yields will be unreliable and awful due to the lack of modern farming techniques that are seen throughout the world. We are not in the stone age anymore, we use and abuse Africa to a next level and all the rich countries do it because its deemed acceptable to take advantage of poorer nations that lack the investment in infrastructure.
That's not their fault at all, and they have little to do in their power to change anything. The other thing is education, I'd love to know how many uneducated Africans even know about Germany's existence, or England's. Its a sad world, and things are fucked up and need to change dramatically, but probably never will.
If you were to go to Africa and live their life for a few years, I'd take your opinion seriously, but I don't think you are at all aware of how complicated nor fragile the situation is.
erm, i don't quite get what your post has to do with mine except that this is an "unreliable solution" (which is still better than seeing that it provingly isn't working)
true, most of the more advanced countries(and a few dictators) have taken advantage (not only of africa but about any poorer country) and still do (though they're also hypocritically try to make up for it, or try to make it look this way... well not to mention private persons).
yet that wasn't what i was talking of. i was not trying to make them able to compete on a global level, i was talking about a way to have them grow and breed enough to take care of them on their own, no modern technology needed for the basics, worked centuries ago too. only to optimise them you'd require more refined ways, such as machines.
it doesn't take much to move, any remotely healthy human being is able to move. you don't need any tech or knowledge for it, just a bit of motivation and will.
i can honestly say that i would(well i can hardly unlearn as much as to have you say that i'd be equal so even that wouldn't make any sense, having me live there), just because it's reasonable and tbh, it's our nature.
Not to be harsh, but it's how the evolution works. Weaker die.
Giving them supplies and medicine ( not making them work for it themselves and just giving out stuff) wont help them in the long run. They wont establish infrastructures themselves and other stuff we are accustomed to.
It's sounds very nazi, but with current population in Africa they wont establish any kind of normal political structure there. Too many opinions and too many mouths to feed.
Yes i hear you there but being born in such a situation doesnt make you awake ambitions that easily. Some people can, but its just not something you can compare to western living people.
true, they are not raised to have any ambitions but to be thankful for everything they have. but whats right in that? (besides everyone has thsoe ambitions normally as long as they're not tought to suppress those.)
thats a totally different topic, but yes, greece fail eventually ;)
you don't need schools to make people rise, you need someone to mibilise them, not many. and well, for the resources becoming available, you could just aswell send someone there to inspire them. you'd need schools if you wanted them to teach those on and on, but i'd just want them to get somewhere nicer where they wouldn't need those ambitions that badly anymore.
firstly only talking about making them get a better condition to live under. what's after that can either be learned individually, just takes an aweful while, but they will figure, since they don't have to care about their daily probs that much anymore.
After reading through your comments, I love how you build your opinion on something that you would never ever understand, because you are simply not able to put yourself in their shoes. Your mind will never be able to understand their living conditions. You grew up with free access to education, you grew up in a complete different culture with different values and backgrounds, you have no idea what those people value, why they live the way they do and what's behind it. You can't compare what we have here to what's going on there. It's comparing apples and oranges. So things are not as easy as you imagine them to be, like moving from point A to B.
Sitting at home all wealthy and happy, with money, education, public transport, technology etc. and then having the audacity to say that moving is not a big deal for those who possess nothing at all, come on.
Apples and Oranges are fruits, so it isnt so far fetched.
And for people who have nothing, moving isnt hard btw. You dont leave anything behind because you dont have anything. African people mostly gather food from the nature, so moving following some herds or plantation isn't that hard.
I'm not trying to generalize anything.
You have your opinion, I have mine, he has his and we're good.
There will never be a solution on such a problem anyway I suppose.
i wasn't meaning to sound rude, though most of them don't have many material things that would bind them to one place, i was just reffering to nomads (what at some point we all have been). i do not understand WHY they live the way they do, well francly because i am not one of them so how would i understand, but from the docus (well to what else would i refer, i never have been there, and simply have to believe most of them to be true) a great deal of them do not cherrish the life they live, at least not how they live it, they crave for a better life, because they are forced to live under inhumane conditions. and thats what it about, i'm not saying that it's entirely their fault, it's only partly theirs that it stays the way it is. i was trying to be objective. i am well aware of the fact that they do not have a life as easy as in our modern world. just what i don't quite see is the connection between free access to education and the will to fight for the bettering in life. (besides what was stated above)
No, its just i never saw 1 journal about it. Why would they? There is no reason for it. Because its "normal" it happens there but if something like this happens in euro then there is a huge fuss about it.
So i have mixed feelings when i see news like this.
Oh fuck off you sanctimonious prick. If the world is such a horrible place just kill yourself. The reason why this is posted here is because there is a shit load of Belgians on the site. If there was a shit load Ugandans then there would be more stuff about Kony posted here.
well mr. rhand I read it on a CROATIAN site, but you don't speak croatian do you? so I decided to find an english link, and ur stupid irish site was first to pop on google.
they where not from 'some christian shizzle' they where just kids from a catholic school. And i respect the fact ur not religious, so am i. But you don't have to be rude.
he's not an asshole he is picky about this stuff (e.g. not mentioning 6 other people who died on the bus because they're older than the kids -> implying their death means less). making jokes about religion = Robert and context doesn't matter, I guess I'm the same though I wouldn't argue with a diehard catholic about the existence of God whereas Robert would ;D
it's fucking boring for me.. I hate to argue with close-minded people, catholics for example who ignore anything that disagrees with their beliefs. I mean, belief is one thing, but ignoring facts is just retarded. like some Islamic countries deny that WW2 happened (attempting to ignore that 6m jews were slaughtered).
well, I guess jews can brag about how they deserve palestine because their people were tortured and victimised for 1817872170298 million years and so muslims just deny it all.
well but who wasn't in history? I think at some point 10% or even more of czech people were slaughtered yet they don't want to get e.g. Austria from that.
some people focus on parts of their history as though it should be important to everyone else in the world. like USA believing the 9/11 bombings shook the planet.
they ignore evolution specifically, never using the bacteria stuff as arguments just completely denying evolution. + arguing with stuff like, in Africa it was proven that catholic people were telling all of the men & women that if they use condoms they will go to hell, when this made no difference (because in certain parts of Africa condoms were available for free) they told the local people that condoms increase the risk of aids -> guys stop using them -> aids spreads.
havent heard of that one but i have to remind you that the church =/= christianity, and somebody claiming himself christian might not be one afterall, if you know what i mean :s there are loads of believers who are clueless idiots about christianity and everything even remotely related to that. but generally i think atheists are way more ignorant than christians, and hardly ever able to argue about anything related to it
well I can't speak for athiests in general because a) I'm not one and b) I'm open minded so not ignoring the person arguing with me :d unless I KNOW they're wrong of course. and yeah I don't mean to speak about catholics as a generalisation but most christians I spoke to about religion blind & deaf when speaking to someone curious about "blasphemous" stuff.
a lot of people KNOWS god doesnt exist dont they :B but arguing is a skill and you need quite a lot of knowledge to argue properly about god vs evolution debate for example. blind & deaf people on both sides im sure, you just gotta find the ones with decent conversation and arguing skills (havent met one yet :(). what's ur view of this btw, how life got started how the universe born and so on? just out of curiosity
I have no idea, there's no facts based around that, just assumptions and theories such as the big bang. it could have been some ultimate being (God) or some scientific occurance :]
I went to a catholic primary school myself (as a non religious person) but besides the 2/3 stories at christmas you would hear nothing else about the whole religion.
But ye there probably are schools that force it down the throat of kids aswell but just wanted to inform you that there are two sides :P
you were lucky then! in Poland some kids get more religion in public kindergarten and boy how much of a bullshit is it. get 4 y.o. kid, give him ilustrated bible, where it's said that Satan made Job miserable and did all the bad stuff to him. lovely isn't it?
: )
Anyway, R.I.P for everyone who died a non-natural death.
Same with family of the queen, always that stories oh how bad but it sadly happens everyday.
R.I.P. for everyone that dies to young
But you cant deny that certain deaths are worse than others. Just imagine the ways you can die .
And yes, the cause of death can be worse than another, agreed, thought about that too, once I had sent my comment. Anyway I am too tired to explain what I mean, I am sorry ;p
because kids in africa just have a natural way to die
but indeed easier not to talk about it if you dont live there
ps: constantly reminding everyone doesn't necessarily make people realise the gravity in it, it can also cause them to grow acustomed to it
though i'm certain that you wouldn't like my overall point on the africa-topic :/
(in short it's something like - "why stay?". there more to it, jsut not in his comment (obviously))
And yes there is allot more to it (history, economy, political etc)
my point is, for generations they have realised that the living conditions are close to not bareable but yet they stay (be it tradition or pride or stubborness). they actually decide to stay, it's not that they simply can't. (not saying "everyone can achieve anything and we're all equal bla bla, but moving from point A, where you have close to nothing, to point B to start over again doesn't strike me as a big deal. (sure the question also is "who would take them?" but within africa there still are some places you're better off than in the middle of nowhere, starving dehydrating or dying of deseases because of the environment they live in.
if you have a look at our system in the western world what do you notice when it comes to ambitions? that most strives for being the best at something or trying to improve and be noticed and acknowledged, and only a fraction accepting that the system is flawed and that they are at their peak and can't get any further.
but then you take a look at africa (well those clichee places we're currently reffering to) and see that most people jsut try to get along, pretty hopelessly born, i know it sounds harsh but that's how a great deal of them are, they try to get along, live through the day and survive as long as they can within the current situation. they're not trying to change the situation (even if it was not possible to escape, mankind got the concept of "hope" for a reason imo. and i don't mean hope that "one day something will change" because in their case it's very naive, but hope that there is something better somewhere not somewhen")
it's not like they're a collective and decided that if not everyone gets to live a better live together, then noone is going anywhere and that it's a social dilemma instead.
that's my point exactly, do you see anyone spending millions on wells in your area? (well obviously not because they're not necessary, and why is that? because you live in a region where there is plenty of water. and why do you live there? except that it's just a place like any other place here? lets say why do 'we' live here; because it's a rather comfortable place, easy conditions and what not.
that brings us to two questions (imo) why do they live not in a rather simmilar place? (probably because those were taken already or because they're not around, then why not try to find them instead, that's what people did before they cultivated those places) and why do they stay and not just keep on moving?
how should they move some countries to north or south? walk a few months/years to a place where they are not welcome? and also, they wont have anything to eat while traveling... doesnt sound like a good plan to me.
besides, as i said, peoples were travelling before they settled down at a somewhat nice place, it seems to me a bit that they quit mid-game, time to bring them back on the road until they reach where everyone else reached eventually
besides food packages are being sent now, why not supply them as long they're moving?!
you can't take enough food with you to walk 2.000 or 5.000 kilometers to a place where its better to live. and there is no drive in fast food restaurants on the way either ;)
biggest problem is though when they arrive. even germany couldn't take 100,000 refugees without ending up in total chaos, how is any african country/state gonna solve that?
and you don't need THAT much to walk 2000km, and once in a while you could stock them up, sure they're not at one spot anymore, but how hard can it be to keep track of a few million people walking in 4 directions, build check points if you like
That's not their fault at all, and they have little to do in their power to change anything. The other thing is education, I'd love to know how many uneducated Africans even know about Germany's existence, or England's. Its a sad world, and things are fucked up and need to change dramatically, but probably never will.
If you were to go to Africa and live their life for a few years, I'd take your opinion seriously, but I don't think you are at all aware of how complicated nor fragile the situation is.
true, most of the more advanced countries(and a few dictators) have taken advantage (not only of africa but about any poorer country) and still do (though they're also hypocritically try to make up for it, or try to make it look this way... well not to mention private persons).
yet that wasn't what i was talking of. i was not trying to make them able to compete on a global level, i was talking about a way to have them grow and breed enough to take care of them on their own, no modern technology needed for the basics, worked centuries ago too. only to optimise them you'd require more refined ways, such as machines.
it doesn't take much to move, any remotely healthy human being is able to move. you don't need any tech or knowledge for it, just a bit of motivation and will.
i can honestly say that i would(well i can hardly unlearn as much as to have you say that i'd be equal so even that wouldn't make any sense, having me live there), just because it's reasonable and tbh, it's our nature.
Giving them supplies and medicine ( not making them work for it themselves and just giving out stuff) wont help them in the long run. They wont establish infrastructures themselves and other stuff we are accustomed to.
It's sounds very nazi, but with current population in Africa they wont establish any kind of normal political structure there. Too many opinions and too many mouths to feed.
And i dont think you automaticly have those ambitions. Its just common here in rich countries
well, then drastically said: go send someone over to tell them to move already.
too bad they have no school at all ;dd
so it actually needs investment, would be better to put all that cash they did in greece put in Africa instead. it has more potential than greece xd
you don't need schools to make people rise, you need someone to mibilise them, not many. and well, for the resources becoming available, you could just aswell send someone there to inspire them. you'd need schools if you wanted them to teach those on and on, but i'd just want them to get somewhere nicer where they wouldn't need those ambitions that badly anymore.
Sitting at home all wealthy and happy, with money, education, public transport, technology etc. and then having the audacity to say that moving is not a big deal for those who possess nothing at all, come on.
And for people who have nothing, moving isnt hard btw. You dont leave anything behind because you dont have anything. African people mostly gather food from the nature, so moving following some herds or plantation isn't that hard.
Don't try to generalize every western person.
You have your opinion, I have mine, he has his and we're good.
There will never be a solution on such a problem anyway I suppose.
So i have mixed feelings when i see news like this.
So hostile btw!
Just kidding. Sad story..
also they were from some christian shizzle. where is your god now?
and the most close-minded person I often argued with was my grandma. hell, there was no talking to her
such? :F
was proven but Pope & other catholics denied it.
But ye there probably are schools that force it down the throat of kids aswell but just wanted to inform you that there are two sides :P
RIP tho
small animation: http://www.deredactie.be/permalink/1.1245077
was he drunk?
>this community
RIP!
to bad goku was not one of them.