y ET so low
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4 Sep 2012, 13:16
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Journals
Yeah why is it, it's been 9 and a half years of it and it's still in babyshoes
- Most people can't get spawntimes by their own (for real, say_team spawntimers should be the most useless thing ever)
- Most people that can judge when the opponent spawns does it in ++30 seconds anyway
- Most people that have the spawntime forget about it every once in a while
- Most people that have the spawntime don't know what to do with it
- Most people that have their own spawntime, don't really know about that one either
- Very, very few players master spread and most people don't have a clue about it really, although it's the most important thing in the game
- Hardly anybody knows anything about dodging, hitboxes or spread when it comes to details, or even if it didn't
- There's no real strategies/tactics that teams use, no serious_teamwork is involved, attacks hardly synchronized, nothing new or innovative strats (coverts, smokes, baits, ..) are used or even thought of
- Most people don't have the basic picture in their head where the opponent are/can be and where your teammates are (in 3on3)
- Most people can't count to three (in 3on3), meaning how many of the opponents are alive
- Most people don't know the maps (in 3on3), how the maps work (gr cp stage/last stage, supply every stage, ..)
- In short, most people don't think ingame, they just go with the flow spawn after spawn and don't predict what the opponent will do
- People can't count nades+ammo or dodge nades at all (in 3on3)
- Hardly anybody, if anybody, analyzes their game, or analyzes the opponent pre-/mid-game
Those were on the top of my mind gonna add more l8r
What else? Tell me more things that makes ET lowskilled! And you agree don't you?
E: And these are basic stuff, nothing extraordinary, yet nobody really knows much about these D:
- Some people still don't use etpro spawntimer and bind it wisely
- Many people don't think about / dodge landmines, (radar cp, supply east don't count, too known) What you could dodge is west radar trick mine for example, yet it's not used much
- People dont use command map at all or very rarely, even though it can give you alot of additional info if youre able to multitask well.
- Most people are totally shit in mental game
- No team switches classes to max out efficiency
- Hardly anybody knows deadcam points to east
- Most people don't know you can't hide your own supportfire's smoke
something to stare at there ^
- Most people can't get spawntimes by their own (for real, say_team spawntimers should be the most useless thing ever)
- Most people that can judge when the opponent spawns does it in ++30 seconds anyway
- Most people that have the spawntime forget about it every once in a while
- Most people that have the spawntime don't know what to do with it
- Most people that have their own spawntime, don't really know about that one either
- Very, very few players master spread and most people don't have a clue about it really, although it's the most important thing in the game
- Hardly anybody knows anything about dodging, hitboxes or spread when it comes to details, or even if it didn't
- There's no real strategies/tactics that teams use, no serious_teamwork is involved, attacks hardly synchronized, nothing new or innovative strats (coverts, smokes, baits, ..) are used or even thought of
- Most people don't have the basic picture in their head where the opponent are/can be and where your teammates are (in 3on3)
- Most people can't count to three (in 3on3), meaning how many of the opponents are alive
- Most people don't know the maps (in 3on3), how the maps work (gr cp stage/last stage, supply every stage, ..)
- In short, most people don't think ingame, they just go with the flow spawn after spawn and don't predict what the opponent will do
- People can't count nades+ammo or dodge nades at all (in 3on3)
- Hardly anybody, if anybody, analyzes their game, or analyzes the opponent pre-/mid-game
Those were on the top of my mind gonna add more l8r
What else? Tell me more things that makes ET lowskilled! And you agree don't you?
E: And these are basic stuff, nothing extraordinary, yet nobody really knows much about these D:
- Some people still don't use etpro spawntimer and bind it wisely
- Many people don't think about / dodge landmines, (radar cp, supply east don't count, too known) What you could dodge is west radar trick mine for example, yet it's not used much
- People dont use command map at all or very rarely, even though it can give you alot of additional info if youre able to multitask well.
- Most people are totally shit in mental game
- No team switches classes to max out efficiency
- Hardly anybody knows deadcam points to east
- Most people don't know you can't hide your own supportfire's smoke
something to stare at there ^
U JELLY?
NO YOU JELLY
i always push after respawn
very few is like less than 10 out of all players
forget about the aim, it falls under the spread category, in which reload for example, fails too
"medskilled" players with a "decent aim"
which part of no you didn't get? hardly any of highskillers fits this category
:D
If i had to put any rtcw names i'd guess (with ones i played with cause otherwise it's sometimes hard to judge) (on their best points of these things):
brainwise (more in the sense as an individual): Mata, Sipperi
movement: askungen, owzo, fette
aim: crumbs, kris, bully
ingame leader strategy (sees overall game as a whole & knows how to change main tax ingame to win when things go wrong): merlinator, twister
can't judge rtcw players dunno about those
0 revives
0 helping engineer doing objectives
just rush in and get some rambo stuff done. which will lead to a fullhold
I think last time people even tried to invent new tactics was when bF was playing. Nowadays teams hardly even prac.
Atleast with fin6 we basically went through every map paying attention to even the smallest details trying to master the tactics. I'm not saying we did anything spectacular that would change the game, but our tactics definitely weren't just "3 guys upstairs, 3 guys downstairs" or "2 east, 1 spawn, 3 west". Not all of the things we tried worked out, but for example our bremen cp defence was excellent with 4 medics on pretty static positions, 1 medic playing a more free role and 1 field op just running through all the positions each spawn to provide the medics with necessary ammo so that none of the 4 medics ever had to selfkill. I haven't seen any other team try a defence like that.
Also on some maps we even had team specific tactics designed to work best against their players and playing style, but I guess I'm not gonna go into more details. Anyway point is that not every team plays with just the same static tactics from year to year.
As for your prediction on "less than 10 people out of all the highskilled players follow these", either that is extremely off or I've been lucky enough to play with most of them.
but if ur so annoyed about it, u could tell about all the points u made here and how to imrove them :d
or something, we'll see
But players can look here:
http://enemyterritorytips.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/hitboxes-in-enemy-territory-et-pro-reyaip-report/
http://enemyterritorytips.wordpress.com/category/aiming/
http://www.prime-squadron.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=26182
and about spread
http://enemyterritorytips.wordpress.com/2008/11/20/mastering-weapon-spread-to-increase-your-accuracy/
and its no legend that for example most polish players are harder to hit (for me at least)
as long as every single player wont have private opticfibre wire, hitting problems will exist
u just kept shooting (at body for bigger "hit space") and hoped it would hit since the spread is big enough or what? :p
One think that really seperates RtCW play from ET is the constant aggressive play before the spawns, obviously ET has short spawntimes so this is far more common but it was something I had to get used to quickly.
Big kudos to maza for the topic, nice read.... plus little shoutout to mztik who showed me the ropes of good spawn attacks etc (Still didn't stop me from being slow on the kill out and getting full spawn as a consequence!)
all the time :D
- Hardly anybody knows anything about dodging, hitboxes or spread when it comes to details, or even if it didn't (what is this ? )
- There's no real strategies/tactics that teams use, no serious_teamwork is involved, attacks hardly (have no idea what it is all about it, i am lucky if i get told to stay somewhere in the map..., got no clue about teamwork or sync fire )
- Hardly anybody, if anybody, analyzes their game, or analyzes the opponent pre-/mid-game
- In short, most people don't think ingame, they just go with the flow spawn after spawn and don't predict what the opponent will do (this is so hard to do when you have improper teammates, I cant think for them also)
most of the times i am playing 3on3 games , i tell everybody where to stay and i lead them somehow , but during the game seeing nobody is willing to focus to give useful comms and help with the brain part , i get lost and forget to even think for myself, mentally stuck
can you give me some advices or play some games with me ? so i can see what should be like / get some ideas ?
and that relates to dodging and hitboxes they work together but all of these need thorough tutorial with pictures and probably videos
strats - can't tell about them just pointing out there aren't much of those, but teamwork you either learn by just playing or if you get taught by somebody playing with you, or you spec somebody and pick it up from there, in a lot of situations if you had unbound nades and healthpacks you and your team would be better off, atleast in 3on3
analyzing is watching your demos / ettv replays after the game to see what you're doing wrong / right, with opponents it's stalking their way of playing and maybe weaknesses
yeah dumb teammates don't help you with this one and can't teach you how to "think" guess that just either comes out of practice or it doesn't, same with predicting, some learn how to do it, most don't. practice helps anyway (and playing with pro players)
irc is so full of retarded med- polish players , who speak with you only on their language and flame you as much as possible . they only know being unhit....
"ET players are stupid and rush too much, I can't believe how many trickshots work"
what if someone gets it before others??????????+++++?
And ok I could go and edit that say_team spawntimers aren't completely wrong but they keep pasting it after minutes of play and unless you're in limbo all the time it's much more handy to just say the spawntime out loud. (For rough estimates I doubt it's handy either - better that everybody has an estimate of their own) And even in more detail, you really should bind the "timer: set"-button to mwheelup or somewhere where it's easily accesible so that you don't need to lift your hands.
copypaste from another reply dunno if it fits + don't know if that reply fit 6on6 perfectly
E: and obviously I'm not talking about the exact spawntime doesn't matter how you inform it when you get it but before that
oke i googled it a bit and found some stuff like : Receiving Damage: getting hit by bullets increases spread
this is why i when some1 is camping at door way and comes to shoot me i aim at legs and usyally win :DD (atleast thats how i think it works)
walking over bumps on the groud gives u more spread etc etc :D its annoying :P
Too bad it was too wide topic to do(and my lack of interest later on), leading to bad end result(doesn't go into very details anywhere, just scratching the surface). Also config at videos isn't the most userfriendly :D Neither was my engrish.
I should have just concentrated to etpro and get some help at some points(like weapon spread). Should I do that kind of tutorial pack again? With better cfg, english and etpro only?
when u time a nade, they even call you lucky if they get surprisingly banged
i hate playing with guys who doesnt know the spawntime after 5mins.
ps not bothered to argue over the points you made, but I agree with what you said about spread and hitboxes.
And furthermore, very eloborate strategies have a high chance of failing, and especially in 3on3 don't give such a huge advantage.
And in all honesty, I really doubt that they work or are new. Care to venture a few examples?
et will ever have some players who r playing this game for many years and still dont know how to play it correctly
thats normal :)
I can also tell u 1000 things about battlefield 3 players, bfbc 2 players and many more
every game has those players and u cant do anything
well u can reduce the number of such players by doing vids how to aim, dealing with hitboxes and so on but still there will be few people who will play stupid :)
that's no reason to get excited
chill :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzRIOTu338Q
that is my opinion
Most Tactical people left ET only egoistic aimers left that wanna get most damage given :<
no wonder u are crying here 24/7 :DD 10years of ET and still bad
blindi clone?
-newer players get worse quality of practice as whole scene is smaller than it used to be, takes longer to get better, ofc this same applys to everyone.
-older players who are still playing are not playing like they used to. When you were in highschool you could play +6hours/day 7 days a week, now the same players might only play 4 hours a week and also have a lot more breaks in their activity. Even with experience they've gathered along the years they probably never reach their peak again.
-theres hardly any motivation or dedication as theres nothing to win or prove, more casual gaming etc. nobody gives a fuck
-technical rant was pretty useless imo, understanding spawntimes or spread is not a key-factor of beeing good, maybe analyzing it can you give a different approach for your learning but other than that i wouldnt give a fuck
-3v3 has always been and is more fun and warmup mode than anything else. hardly anyone is trying to minmax it.
-top level players are still very decent and understand the game very well, some more than others but its there!
Haha. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Get a life, nerds. This is seriously wrong.
couldn't agree more with this one its like most players never really think of this.
GOOD stuff maza, you still play or is et too lowskilled for u ;P? QL?!
Actually I'm assuming many, atleast lower skilled players have never even entertained the idea of using command map, besides for checking for who has to CP!
Not that I use it my self!
Also maybe one of the biggest leaks I constantly see is:
- Most people are totally shit in the mental game. Lets say its first map of this imaginary final of a big prestigious cup. Your team is attacking Goldrush and gets fullheld on tank. Its crazy how low the team confidence can get after that and how much the comms drop etc. I dont mean to say its easy: just dont let it affect the next round at all..
But you do get all these feelings naturally like the opponent is so much better and your gonna get raped, but its not totally logical often. So its def. possible to work on that.
In my experience majority of people I play with can get spawntimes on their own.
I dont think say_team spawntimers are useless, quite the opposite. What ensam said and many players want to know the exact second, which you dont get that easily obv.
- Most people that have the spawntime forget about it every once in a while
More than natural for anyone. What matters is how often it happens, this point cant be made by typing imo.
- Most people that have the spawntime don't know what to do with it
True! People wanna make plays because of spawntime at times that are actually really bad and they would be better off if they didnt even think about spawntimes at all. Also just in general not using the info well enough etc.
- Most people that have their own spawntime, don't really know about that one either
True, just poor general awareness of things that are important is kinda low in ET compared to some other games.
- Very, very few players master spread and most people don't have a clue about it really, although it's the most important thing in the game
Most important thing in the game? :) Wouldnt know, since I have very poor understanding of the spread!
- Hardly anybody knows anything about dodging, hitboxes or spread when it comes to details, or even if it didn't
I find it disturbing how people dont strafe in spots where they are realoading for example and opponent appears in front of them. They just rather stay still and die. Theres some value in wasting opponents bullets a little more for example! Plus wasting extra few seconds maybe and even getting a few (more) hits on the opponent because of it. Theres no excuse for the lack of strafe many people have! In terms of different movement in duels I dont really know.
- There's no real strategies/tactics that teams use, no serious_teamwork is involved, attacks hardly synchronized, nothing new or innovative strats (coverts, smokes, baits, ..) are used or even thought of
I dont think this is true, mainly speaking of 6on6. Teams do have some of their own strategies most of the time and the best teams certainly pay attention to timings that they push at the same time from different locations.
It comes down to is it being done enough and well enough, its tricky to argue. You are probably right that if we try to compare to other games these are done poorly (if at all) in ET.
- Most people don't have the basic picture in their head where the opponent are/can be and where your teammates are (in 3on3)
The better players do.
- Most people can't count to three (in 3on3), meaning how many of the opponents are alive
I cant believe how hard this is for me at times! :D Playing more would fix it by it self though, atleast in my case.
- Most people don't know the maps (in 3on3), how the maps work (gr cp stage/last stage, supply every stage, ..)
Many of these points come down to that if all the players did, then would there even be skill differences. Theres big skill gaps in every game. The best players have thought about how to play optimally on pretty much every spot and keep thinking about different ways that might work.
- In short, most people don't think ingame, they just go with the flow spawn after spawn and don't predict what the opponent will do
Just the ability to think makes you a better player than the majority in this game. So yeah the level of play in general is not that high! =) Thats the whole point of this journal I guess and I do tend to agree.
- People can't count nades+ammo or dodge nades at all (in 3on3)
We felt kinda advanced with RAAB on adlernest when deciding to go for lower push with docks with three guys in the very end stage as our default tactic. Mainly to punish opponents that didnt have a fop (most back then) and to make them run out of ammo (95% of teams also challenged unnessecary fights, without us really pushing in and wasting their limited ammo) ez game! Might be a little sad that something like this is considered very advanced in this game. Or that most people would never actually understand what the strategy was all about when speccing.
- Hardly anybody, if anybody, analyzes their game, or analyzes the opponent pre-/mid-game
How can you know this? :D I remember someone analyzing different opponents pregame in some of the fin teams that I've played at. Sometimes even strats where formed around some particular (bad, rusty) player playing a certain position. All this could be done more ofc and to consider how someone goes very aggressive and leaves maybe potential exploits in defence should be capitalized more.
For analyzing opponents mid game is something that could be done, but is almost never used. Theres very little spots for it and counter strategies might not be all that efficient and hard to pull. This is mainly since the play is so static.
- Many people don't think about / dodge landmines, (radar cp, supply east don't count, too known) What you could dodge is west radar trick mine for example, yet it's not used much
I was one of the players who never dodged supply east mines for example, but dodged the west trickmine at radar and actually seemed to remember it, while many people that knew it kept forgetting it in high intensity situations.
Took me enough years though to understand how important and easy it is to dodge certain mines. :D
Its one of the better examples here regarding skill level in ET. It should be very basic to atleast try to dodge some of the common mines, but alarmingly many people basicly never even try.
Same goes to running to the same spam riflenades all the time. Funnily enough stuff like this can be done by players that are like top20 players in the game (according to my opinion and general as well) and maybe even goes to show that this is not really a huge braingame like QL duel or smth.
Ok most of people can, but I guess the point of mine was that everything relates to spawntimes so even a rough estimate in the first 10-15 seconds should be made out of how they start playing, push out, how quickly they tap out after dying, or do they take the passive start play it safe etc, I don't think most people can judge spawntimes unless the opponent actually selfkills and I'm not talking about that ofc everybody can do that. Right? D: There might be matches where they won't selfkill in the first minute or so and if you (super-spawntime-judge) are away from the situations that give hints about spawntimes you're screwed. Atleast I am in 3on3 very screwed if I don't know their spawntime.
And ok I could go and edit that say_team spawntimers aren't completely wrong but they keep pasting it after minutes of play and unless you're in limbo all the time it's much more handy to just say the spawntime out loud. (For rough estimates I doubt it's handy either - better that everybody has an estimate of their own) And even in more detail, you really should bind the "timer: set"-button to mwheelup or somewhere where it's easily accesible so that you don't need to lift your hands.
- Very, very few players master spread and most people don't have a clue about it really, although it's the most important thing in the game
When I thought about that I realized that every position I take depends on spread, every fight I take depends on spread and just the thing you "aim" better if you have less spread and use your ammo more efficiently. + The mental edge you get by "outspreading" because people think you unhit! ;d The other side of the coin is maximizing the spread for the opponent, forcing him to go to bad situations spreadwise while avoiding those yourself. I think it's like lg vs lg fight in QL, the one with better stack wins. Same goes for ET, the one with less spread wins. Knowing spread means knowing hitboxes too really, so they know about the bugs in hitboxes and lose a whole lot of crouch duels less. And also knows that crouching is surprisingly good dodging in close combat.
- There's no real strategies/tactics that teams use, no serious_teamwork is involved, attacks hardly synchronized, nothing new or innovative strats (coverts, smokes, baits, ..) are used or even thought of
Those strats you listed are very basic stuff. There's no out of the box thinking really, one day somebody figured out that you can sneak the tank in gr and that's like the latest innovation? :d Even though I'm no 6on6 player I have half a dozen new working concepts that can be tried if regular shit don't work. And most of those 6 tactics are one man jobs, imagine if the whole team could do something advanced together!
- Most people don't know the maps (in 3on3), how the maps work (gr cp stage/last stage, supply every stage, ..)
Yeah but for example the thing topteams don't still really get the importance of gr cp stage how you're supposed to play it att/def, you can't take covert really if you attack and you must not rambo and let the axis rebuild it and you gotta be aggressive with cov/eng when you're on axis side trying to defend the cp more than anything. And as soon as they're all in the bank you take covert and get their cp destroyed and it's a 5 minute knockback easily. Maybe people are finally getting that but why is it taking so long! It's like if toxicity in ql was played for a year and then people are getting "hey I should do free damage when he takes the red!" And I think with a little logical thinking people could be a lot better in supply 1st stage. And so on and so forth.
- Hardly anybody, if anybody, analyzes their game, or analyzes the opponent pre-/mid-game
Well okay I guess analyzing opponents pregame is popular now that it's so easy, and maybe watching your own play too D: But probably it's just that people watch how they play from their own or opponent's POV but don't conclude anything. But you're right I wouldn't know just guessing :8(
And the very ultimate point is that the list I made should be like "what to learn first when I start ET"-list and not the requirements to be a LAN winner, yet it is? In ql medskills can time, know the maps by heart, know how the weapons work, the rail angles, nade bounces, how to place rockets, how to predict plasma, they use strategies and have ideas in their heads they think, they have the basic picture where the opponent(s) are and what they are doing, they dodge basic spam, they think about the ammo (or weaponry) and they are good in mental game. Most of ET highskills don't match the list I made :l + knew you would wall of text this journal <3
As I've experienced it, it explodes if you get too close, or if you pick up the part from further away with your activate button(can be very glitchy).
Only way I know how to get out of that is either by purposely making it explode by going close and then backing away (which is bad because it's an early alert), or if you have a bit of stamina and sprint jump over it (which you might not have in alot of situations).
How do you do it?
still med only (even low+ now i guess)
not sure if serious
spread =/= recoil