Buying a car

Hello, I hope I ll get answers from Belgian residents or inhabitants of this country.

I m thinking to buy a car, probably a VW Golf. I would like to know as much as possible about the legislation I should know about driving and owning a car in Belgium

I understand there are several things to keep in mind: age, period since you have your permit, insurance which price can varies according to several factors.

What should I keep in mind when buying a car in Belgium? What is cheaper to maintain: gasoline or diesel?

How is the market going? After I bought the car, which will be a second hand one, thinking about reselling after maybe 2 or 3 years, will the price go down a lot?

Here are some links of possible car I would buy:

http://www.2dehands.be/autos/volkswagen/golf/volkwagen-golf-4-110pk-airco-243821776.html

http://www.2dehands.be/autos/volkswagen/golf/vw-golf-3-1-9diesel-1ste-243819648.html

http://www.2dehands.be/autos/volkswagen/golf/volkswagen-golf-4-1-6i-243815557.html

http://www.2dehands.be/autos/volkswagen/golf/vw-golf-4-1-9tdi-gekeurd-243794903.html

http://www.2dehands.be/autos/volkswagen/golf/-vw-golf-4-243768145.html

http://gocar.be/nl/autovlan/tweedehands-auto/VW/Golf/19-SDi-Base-San-Diego-1STE-EIGENAAR--qbbeqn8q

http://gocar.be/nl/autovlan/tweedehands-auto/VW/GOLF-DIESEL-2002/19-TDi-90cv-Comfortline-CLIM-ALU--qbbenqua

http://gocar.be/nl/autovlan/tweedehands-auto/VW/GOLF-DIESEL-2001/19-SDi-Comfortline-CLIM-ALU--v3bd9de5


Thank you!
Comments
76
Diesel is cheaper. I've been checking diesel today at belgium and it was 1.11 euros a liter. In the netherlands its 1.73 a liter. Also the taxes on a yearly basis are 4/5 times cheaper than what they are here. For example. A audi A6 costs 650 for 3 months TAX. In belgium it would costs me 400 a year
I understand diesel is cheaper Rick. I knew that :P. The thing is, I m not quite sure of what I m saying, I will find out probably on Thursday more details, when I meet with the bank adviser, but from what I heard, the insurance money are also depending on what kind of fuel the car uses and apparently for gasoline is cheaper than for diesel. At least, this is what I heard from different people. I dont know why or if is true. From what you say seems to be quite the opposite :D
Parent
How much HP does the car have. Around 90 I believe? Everything under 200 HP is good and cheap. Above 200 HP its gets expensive.
Parent
Last time I went for diesel it was around 1,27 a liter (was on a good day, 1.35 on other days). The "euro 95" gasoline is more in NL than in Belgium or Germany

http://www.brandstofprijzen.info/brandstofprijzen-eu.php
Parent
Today I've been paying 1.11 at Maasmechelen. Was a good day :D
Parent
well really depends how you would use your car. If you drive only short distance daily i would pick a car which use gasoline but if you drive 100+ km i'd pick diesel. 1.9 tdi is pretty good in vw golf. i am about to make a retro car VW golf I and i will put an 1.9 tdi in it ;)
Normally the car will be used mostly to go to work, which is around 15 km from where I live,in Antwerpen. But of course that maybe I ll do also long distances, in week end. Like for example a trip to Amsterdam, or visiting France or Germany, as being Belgium neighbors. Obviously that won t happen on a daily basis. Also going to Romania, which probably won t happen every year, but let s say every 2 years or something. And here we talking about 2000 km one way, so 4000 km on total for one trip. So how would you do it now :D?
Parent
gasoline then, diesel engine doesnt really like short distance, if you drive daily 15 km for one way and 15km backway a day i'd pick a car which uses gasoline. No matter if you go further sometimes, gasoline is always good ;)
Parent
would really argue here m8, have diesel , driving a lot short distances, no matter what , it's always cheaper.
If you concider how many diesel are there around. You get so many cheap repearing parts when you need to go in service.

Have 1999 TDI Bora 66kw. uses in city mostly 6L per 100km. On highway, it uses 5L 100km. I don't see any big difference in the fuel usage.

The real thing comes in mind, if you live in really cold country like I am. Where winter gets you -20, then the gasoline cars will get advantage, for not needed engine warmup.
But if you have garage for your car, then even a -20 isn't a problem.

Diesel beats gasoline in my eyes every day.

Have had gasoline cars as well.
Parent
well, i dont want to argue with you, that was my opinion its yours i am okey with that
Parent
I don't really want to argue as well, the thing is that in Estonia we don't have tax for diesel or gasoline.

We have tax for fuel it self ( gasoline/diesel) but not for engine. Nor have we road taxes.

That's why in our country diesel becomes more cheaper than gasoline.

I can safely say that 50% cars in Estonia are diesel. Due the fact, it has more raw power, especially in our conditions during winter. With lot's lot's snow.
Parent
eber my friend
Parent
diesel will cost you more in the long run, unless you are getting a truck and do long drives, i think
Neh :D. I posted some links of the type of car I m interested in. No truck lol
Parent
you are wrong, diesel is more cheaper if you do long drives
Parent
that is what i ment! :)
Parent
ahh fuck me then :D
Parent
but if you buy you should buy VW golf GTI, i wouldnt buy that 1.6 gasoline shit :D
What s the difference in terms of engine,consumption, and price both of buying but also possible repairs?
Parent
Do not buy a GTI. Not a Golf 4 anyways. They are terrible.
Parent
Don't get a VW Golf only road ragers drive those. :D
Road ragers? What kind of people are those? People that rage on the road? Sounds like me :D
Parent
used to have 1.6 gasoline - too slow and feels heavy with this engine
however it was good for me, very comfortable
To slow?:O what u mean?
Parent
Whenever I pushed the gas it felt slow, I mean it didn't "pop out" straightaway, needed a like a second or few milisecs. There's a VW polo also in the family and it's gaspedal is way more sensitive.

however i could speed up to 180-200 km/h easly, it's just the explosiveness what wasn't good enough imo
Parent
1.6 for gasoline is a slow explosive power indeed. Like on highway when you want to go past someone you feel like it takes ages.

So basically 2.0 gasoline, will be good enough to feel more power to pass or making faster movements.
Parent
since you're buying a used car, just make sure you check the mileage and the engine condition before you make your purchase.
I knoe how to check mileage but engine condition?
Parent
Dla Ciebie cwelu to taczka z plandeka
Ja pierdole :D
Parent
Don't buy a car, use bicycle and you will thank me later.
this and 15 km is not that far tbh. belgium is flat anyway
Parent
I don t expect you to understand..but when you wake up at 4 in the morning, and is raining like shit, the last thing u want is to hump on your bike to go to work.
Parent
ofc I understand this, but this depends on your working place, I can shower at my working place, but I also have only 3.5 km to go, which I need far less time on a bicycle than in a car. but yeah, at 4 in the morning it can also be dangerous to sit on a bicycle
Parent
I work in a warehouse. Thing is not where I work but the time and weather
Parent
Check mileage:
there are many (or at least more than you would think) scammers, that are cheating on the mileage. So, check interior (especially steering wheel, seats and pedals), does it look like it has been driven far more than the mileage says, e.g. heavy wear on the leather/cloth of the steering wheel/seats, heavy wear on the pedals, no maintenance booklet


You prolly arent a professional, but there are few things you can check for yourself:
Brakes:
- the discs shouldn't have any creases that are deeper than your finger nail
- rust is a big nopenopenope
- check the brakes during driving, so do a fucking emergency breaking from 50 km/h and lift your hands off the steering wheel, if the car isnt driving straight during braking there might be problems with the steering, unequal brake power distribution or the camber (or tons of other things) -> expensive fixes
- also, high piercing noises during breaking dont have to be (super)bad, but it might be an indicator for bad/low-quality parts/work

Corrosion:
- check the seams and folds of the doors, the trunk and the engine hood, these are the most "prominent" places for corrosion (and bad fix ups), also - if possible - lift up any rubber seals
- obviously, the engine room shouldn't look like complete shit with flash rust all over
- look for any places of bubbly paint (which is a big nopenopnope too)
- look at the paint job, if you see any patches or car parts that have a slighly off-tone color ask for the accident history, if the seller then tells you "no, no, no accidents" back off immediately

Engine:
- if there is a maintenance booklet, check the intervals, have their been big pauses, has the oil/cam belt been switched at the right intervals, normally once per year (more frequent oil switches are an indicator for rough drivers that dont warm the engine before kicking it or regular track usage -> back off!)
- check the engine idle - it is really constant? does it change when you switch on/off light or ac? doesnt necessearly have to be a big problem, but might be connected to faulty addition parts (AC compressor, electric generator), still: a perfect engine should constantly run at the idle
- obviously, the nicer it sounds, the better it is gonna be (prolly)

Tires:
- at least 3-5 mm of profile left, you can calculate with about 1-2mm of removed profile during a summer/winter season (depending on driving style of course)
---> uneven profile depths at left/right, front/back might also indicate problems with the steering/camber/absorbers
- below 1.5mm ---> insta-back-off, no serious seller would sell you a car like that (at least not without telling that youll need new tires right after you buy the car)
- not older than 7 years (older and the rubber starts to become brittle and it just wont work that good)

Exhaust:
- lay down on your back and have a look at the exhaust and stick your finger into any patches of rust you see, if everything is solid - good, if it crumbles (rust has already eaten through the whole metal) --->instanope
- exhaust fumes shouldnt "smell" particularly bad (of course they arent pleasant from the start, but you will more or less instantly smell bad combustion conditions)
- exhaust fumes should be more or less transparent ---> blue or black? --> bad combustion --> nopenopenope

Diesel or Gasoline:
- Usually longer drives & high yearly mileage: Diesel (lots of small trips are bad for diesels as their filters will start to clogg eventually, also bad for the turbo due to frequent thermal load switches (heating/cooling))
---> Diesel looks cheaper on the paper, but taxes are always higher and in most cases insurance is also higher (people who drive diesels will drive more, hence they will cause more crashes, hence you have to pay more)
---> Diesel engines are (generally) more complex than gasoline engines (Turbo, High pressure injection, higher temperatures during combustion, more corrosive gases during combustion), so repairs will most likely be more expensive

- Low mileage, small (but frequent) drives: Gasoline, naturally aspirated engines are way more durable in these situations because of their more simple construction (in comparison to Turbo-Diesel engines)
---> usually lower taxes and insurance, lower repair prices if something in the engine breaks down
---> gasoline engines have (inherently) less torque, so they will feel much slower during acceleration than equally powered diesel engines

Obviously, you want to buy a used (and in the best case scenario cheap) car, so you will never be able to achieve all those mentioned points all at once. Personally, I would take a little bit of corrosion or a faulty exhaust over e.g. faulty brakes or tires (these things keep you alive at the end of the day!). Also, any bad things you find about the car you can also use during your price negotiations.
Serious sellers will allow you to bring the car into a repair shop and will let you have a look beneath the car (best case: repair shop with a professional), might cost some money in the first place, but might keep you from unwanted suprises, that will turn your car into a financial grave. More serious buyers will even have a "status report" from an independent reviewer that will estimate price and general condition of the car (would take such a car with 10/20k more mileage than the same priced car without such a report).
You talked like a pro. Thanks buddy!

And since apparently you are German, what you think about the car I want to buy?
Parent
Its a Golf, so don't expect any fancy luxury. Solid car nothing more, nothing less. If you're really opting for a Golf 4, go for the Facelift Models, as the earlier ones often had issues with the transmission/gearbox. 1.4 and 1.6 gasoline engines are terribly slow (imo), so I'd personally go for a 1.8T /2.0 or a diesel. Corrosion is not really an issue with these cars unless the trunk is leaking and its wet beneth the chairmat. Some cars seem to have issues with their engine control unit, so that the engine control lamp pops up randomly and states having issues with the exhaust system. It may or may not be the lambda probe in this case.

Oh and be prepared for squeaking seats after a while (bad quality). Other than that you should be fine. Resource: got one within the family.
Parent
I can t get one with to big capacity, because the bigger capacity is, the bigger cost for insurance also I have to pay
Parent
cba to reply to a lot of it tho but you made a few decent points, +1 a lot of decent companies also offer to do an inspection of used cars before you buy it.

if there is a maintenance booklet, check the intervals, have their been big pauses, has the oil/cam belt been switched at the right intervals, normally once per year (more frequent oil switches are an indicator for rough drivers that dont warm the engine before kicking it or regular track usage -> back off!) I really hope you're not referring to the timing belt being changed every year? LOL but frequent oil changes doesn't necessarily mean rough drivers at all. It also depends on the car, but we're talking about a golf here so 2 a year is no problem.


- below 1.5mm ---> insta-back-off, do people even sell cars with illegal tyre tread now? :/ (1.6mm over 75% of whole tyre is minimum limit btw unfo)

exhaust fumes should be more or less transparent ---> blue or black? --> bad combustion black fuel blue oil white/grey an indicator that coolant could be burning so think head gasket etc.

another point you didn't mention but could have included with the exhaust is to put your hand over the joints when the car is idle to see if you can feel any leaks. easy to fix but still it all adds up.

i'm more used to buying cars that failed tüv etc than looking for cars more expensive :(
Parent
hei :)

Thanks for the info, a lot of technical terms lol

Did you study the links I posted? What you think?
Parent
haven't had time to look through them, but the 1.9 tdi has a solid engine if you are looking at them just be aware they are rather noisy/rattly for a diesel engine. think i've had 4 1.9tdi, 1.4, 2.0 and gti edition from the mk4, the 1.4 are rather slow but they're ok, as a whole the car is pretty solid and really common to get parts for cheap
Parent
phrasing! :D
you are ofc completely right - the timing belt doesnt need to be changed every year and frequent oil changes (and by frequent i mean twice at 10k mileage in a year) might also depend on the car/engine, but it might also depend on the driver ;) (eventhough in most cases it implies track usage, which most people prolly wont be doing in a golf ii).

apart from that, +1 on what you commented!
Parent
Happy Mercedes benz e220 cdi owner reporting in
Buy my Evo 4 and I'm thankful :D Spent 2,5k already this year to it...
Parent
I would have some nice jap sport aswell if I didnt have to drive 70k km a year :(
Parent
Awsome car. You rich :O
Parent
Well its a 2001 one and had 186k km on it when i got it
Parent
make sure ur car is equipped with kolmosen kautta nelosen puhaltimella.
You can find all the taxes on the internet
Might be less expensive in the nothern part of the country than it is here

e: gotta say that golf is like seat ibiza, a car for irresponsible drivers
I don t get the thing about irresponsible drivers. How did you came up with this?
Parent
Experience
Everytime you see a golf or worse a yellow seat ibiza they're gonna cause troubles
Parent
For some reason I never liked VW cars. I either stick to Subaru, Accura, Infinity or Lexus. All 4 car range are pretty nice. You don't get this cars in Germany? Just curious.
I m not buying from Ge, so I dont know.
Parent
What about Belgium?
Parent
Did not look for those cars to be honest
Parent
add 10k and buy something decent
Yea...borrow me 10k please, I just seem unable to find money under my pillow every morning when I wake up :)
Parent
plebeian, who doesn't own a Skyline GTR as daily car.
unforgiven, if you buy a car of 10.000 euro and when its out of garage its 8000. So you price always fall more and more.
By the way, what you should keep in mind as well. Check the milage and year of car. If the milage is way to low for a old car, stay away from it. Meaning it either has some engine problems, that most of the time it is under repair or if you get lucky really careful people used this car and drove not much.

It is always better when a old car has decent ( not much ) but decent amount of milage, it is telling that the car has been on the road more than in the service or under repairing.
But it also means that it has got a real pounding on the engine. Now if you check the overall condition over a car you can easily see who was driving it.

And a big pluss will be, when the car you want to buy had only 1-3 users. To many are bad, either something wrong.

If you can also, would nice to see cars VIN number and if possible to check in local incurenc companys for hidden accidents. ( we in Estonia have this option possible and very good thing, a lot sellers hide minor crashes and stuff, but via VIN number I can login to insurance company and check there. LIke this you can either drop the price or if the person does not want to share VIN number, he hides something )
Check the links I posted. Whst u think? What s this vin number? Complete name
Parent
Well VIN number is a vechicle idendification number. It can say much about the history of car. LIke how many time it has been in service ( repairing ) what was repaired , how many times it has been in accidents etc.
It is car's history book. it came in use since 1981 and mostly contains 17 numbers.
Parent
I don t know if they have this in Belgium. What VIN stands for?
Parent
He already said. Vehicle Identification Number. I know in US, if you plan to buy used car you buy after check previous history report. 80% of time reports are accurate and has history of maintenance and accidents on it.

Don't buy anything older then 2010 if possible. Not sure how's climate over their but here you get rusting issues on east coast and end up changing muffler and other things after 5 years.

Normally here very less people buy VW because of med+ maintenance. If you need low maintenance car, people buy Civic / Accord or Corolla/Camry.

Buying used car can either be cost effective if car is in good condition or you would end up getting messed up car.
Parent
older than 2010 - less electronics = better :Ppp
Parent
Mate my budget would be max 2500 euro :)

I m surprised to hear so many bad reviews about VW when I know so many people who are satisfied of it and also I see a lot of this cars on the road

I believe this is what Eagle meant, for Belgium at least: http://www.car-pass.be/en/particulieren/frequently-asked-questions.html
Parent
no no m8.


https://www.google.ee/search?q=VIN+number+on+car&biw=1920&bih=969&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tNmUVY-yKMuYsgHQn4fwAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=yduV6IeaF-rNQM%3A

here you go, a clean very good example how VIN number can save you a lot trouble.

Look the before and after picture on the car.

and Panda is right. Less electroncis less problems in repair and diagnostics.
Parent
Quoteor if you get lucky really careful people used this car and drove not much.


because that's generally a good thing, right? image: V3OHQVQ
Parent
well if you see that the milage is low and person who used the car when buying, was really careful with the car- that is a really rare thing.

But there are also low milage cars, what are really old and once you see the car, it is kinda clear that most of the time, it had only problems.Hopefully now makes all sense:P
Parent
low mileage generally driven by old people are usually also bad :)
too many cold start short mileage drives isn't good for the car, there are so many things that could go wrong with the engine due to that.
Parent
yes, very true, but I kinda think of low milgage let's say 2001 passat, generally would have like by now

250, 000 - 350 000 km

Let's say someone sells a passat of same 2001 year and has milage only 120 000 km , it makes me wonder, why so low either good holder or a really car full of trouble.
I usually stay away from these kind cars.

But when someone sells a passat 2001 with 400 000km , it ses a lot about the cars engine, works good most of the time only moving. Good thing, but with such huge milage, the engine has got a godo amount of pounding.
This kinda car makes me intrigued. I will look how many users has it had. Check the VIN number
Go under the car to see corrosion, check engine, intierior ( was a smoker or not ) .

Also I have a good friend who does have paint thickness mesaurer ( hes a car painter ) and I check even with that for paint thickness, because sometimes you can find out fixes or minor crashes, what the person tries to hide.
Parent
My friend has car since 2 years i.e. 2013 model and only 11000 miles on it. It's almost 6 months over in 2015 as well and I don't think it would go above 15000 by the end of 2015.

Only used for Work to Home (vice versa) and going somewhere around. Not necessary low miles is always bad. Just ask the person while buying why low mileage and they would give reason.

Getting good used car is pain in da butt. Good luck mate. I was in the same boat once upon a time.
Parent
That's a rare when a person is using car well and has low miles on it.

You won't bealive me, but I have at this point 1999 TDI VW Bora.

This car had only 2 users, I am the 3rd 1. Have had it now for 3 years, when I bought it, the miles it had was 444 444 km , by 3 years I have now 465 300 km . And the biggest repair money I wasted was , when I had to tighten handbreak. And change oil and fuel filter. This car works good, the real problem with this old car is the rusting.

Hopefully I can drive 3 more years with it, then it has paid it off twice when not even 3 times the price I paid. I gave for the car 2000 euros.
Parent
It's common here since we have lease option in US. i.e. You can lease the car of 1, 2 or 3 years. They have miles limit on it. i.e. 10K - 12K miles per year. That's why we see lot's of car around 20K miles used for 2 years. Leased cars get's regular maintenance from dealer i.e. Oil/filter change, tire rotation, etc. So nothing to worry about.
Parent
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