CB Chiefs of C&A Speak Out
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9 Jun 2007, 02:55
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News
It seems there have been a number of issues brought up surrounding the recent case of keran and shy of 
Pro5 receiving bans for cheating on a public server. The following news item will hopefully explain further details of this case to those of you who have only heard a certain point of view regarding it.
Firstly we shall take the player bans themselves. Each player was given a 6 month ban in accordance with the ClanBase cheating and abuse policy. During this time they will be unable to participate in any ClanBase competitions as punishment for cheating. We at ClanBase think the punishment should fit the crime. There is absolutely no evidence of keran or shy having cheated during any ClanBase matches therefore there is no reason to change the result of any match in which they've played. ClanBase will only take action when we have solid proof that an offence has been committed, not just someone's opinion that because a player has been caught cheating in the past that automatically means they must be cheating every subsequent time they load a game.
Giving out 6 month bans for cheating outside of ClanBase is not what we would consider lenient. Whatever the context or excuses given in this case (or others) everyone is, and should be, treated the same way. The bottom line is, keran was not caught cheating in a CB match, similarly 1000s of other players are also not caught cheating in CB matches. Their results are never changed, so why should we do it now for keran?
The other bans brought up in comparison were all dealt with in accordance to the ClanBase cheating and abuse policy at that time. In the past we have removed all of the player's results as it was deemed they cheated in all matches they had played. That rule has now changed.
You all know that our policy has gone under a few changes since then. To bring up old bans as an example is just futile, unless they were handled with the same policy. We try to keep our policy updated and it is always evolving to take into consideration unique situations and events.
Secondly we had a point brought up that ClanBase took too long to ban the player in question. Punkbuster logged keran's catch on the 7th of March and the ban was proposed to the Cheating and Abuse Chiefs on the 16th of May. Due to some of our personnel taking time off (yes, volunteers can take holidays too!) it took longer to process the ban than we would have liked, but given the amount of work our C&A team have to get through it certainly wasn't an obscene amount of time. During this period we cannot disallow the player from playing in our competitions purely because people are innocent until proven guilty, and players are only guilty when their bans have been properly processed and verified by our C&A team.
Thirdly we have the interesting situation brought up by the fact keran's ban was processed whilst he was playing in a ClanBase match, it's fair to say that common sense should prevail here. We should not punish the player for playing when there was no way he could have known a ban for him had been processed, by the same token his clan should also not be punished for playing in the same match as him. It is ridiculous to suggest that we should take an unnecessary hard line and punish the player and clan in this case since there was no opportunity for them to take action by dropping the player for the match. We will, however, be looking at the wording of the policy to take into account the small possibility of a situation like this occurring again. As with real life law there is always the likelihood that we will update our rules based on cases that arise.
Finally we'd like to thank all the people who continue to put their hard work and effort into the ClanBase ET community. It is easy to sit on a pedestal and criticise others who are trying to do their best, it's quite another to actually get off your bum and be one of those selfless people who are willing to give up their own spare time for the benefit of others. There may have been some inconsistencies in the past, we're only human after all, but we will now work hard to eradicate these so that everyone gets the same fair treatment. We only hope that others will mirror this attitude and perhaps realise actions do in fact speak a lot louder than words.
Source: ClanBase
Pro5 receiving bans for cheating on a public server. The following news item will hopefully explain further details of this case to those of you who have only heard a certain point of view regarding it.Firstly we shall take the player bans themselves. Each player was given a 6 month ban in accordance with the ClanBase cheating and abuse policy. During this time they will be unable to participate in any ClanBase competitions as punishment for cheating. We at ClanBase think the punishment should fit the crime. There is absolutely no evidence of keran or shy having cheated during any ClanBase matches therefore there is no reason to change the result of any match in which they've played. ClanBase will only take action when we have solid proof that an offence has been committed, not just someone's opinion that because a player has been caught cheating in the past that automatically means they must be cheating every subsequent time they load a game.
Giving out 6 month bans for cheating outside of ClanBase is not what we would consider lenient. Whatever the context or excuses given in this case (or others) everyone is, and should be, treated the same way. The bottom line is, keran was not caught cheating in a CB match, similarly 1000s of other players are also not caught cheating in CB matches. Their results are never changed, so why should we do it now for keran?
The other bans brought up in comparison were all dealt with in accordance to the ClanBase cheating and abuse policy at that time. In the past we have removed all of the player's results as it was deemed they cheated in all matches they had played. That rule has now changed.
You all know that our policy has gone under a few changes since then. To bring up old bans as an example is just futile, unless they were handled with the same policy. We try to keep our policy updated and it is always evolving to take into consideration unique situations and events.
Secondly we had a point brought up that ClanBase took too long to ban the player in question. Punkbuster logged keran's catch on the 7th of March and the ban was proposed to the Cheating and Abuse Chiefs on the 16th of May. Due to some of our personnel taking time off (yes, volunteers can take holidays too!) it took longer to process the ban than we would have liked, but given the amount of work our C&A team have to get through it certainly wasn't an obscene amount of time. During this period we cannot disallow the player from playing in our competitions purely because people are innocent until proven guilty, and players are only guilty when their bans have been properly processed and verified by our C&A team.
Thirdly we have the interesting situation brought up by the fact keran's ban was processed whilst he was playing in a ClanBase match, it's fair to say that common sense should prevail here. We should not punish the player for playing when there was no way he could have known a ban for him had been processed, by the same token his clan should also not be punished for playing in the same match as him. It is ridiculous to suggest that we should take an unnecessary hard line and punish the player and clan in this case since there was no opportunity for them to take action by dropping the player for the match. We will, however, be looking at the wording of the policy to take into account the small possibility of a situation like this occurring again. As with real life law there is always the likelihood that we will update our rules based on cases that arise.
Finally we'd like to thank all the people who continue to put their hard work and effort into the ClanBase ET community. It is easy to sit on a pedestal and criticise others who are trying to do their best, it's quite another to actually get off your bum and be one of those selfless people who are willing to give up their own spare time for the benefit of others. There may have been some inconsistencies in the past, we're only human after all, but we will now work hard to eradicate these so that everyone gets the same fair treatment. We only hope that others will mirror this attitude and perhaps realise actions do in fact speak a lot louder than words.
Source: ClanBase
Hf
I do hope ur coming =)
A admirable objective, but one that's not really workable. A more draconian zero tolerance policy would be much more effective IMO.
Keran may not have cheated in a match, but he's got himself in the situation thru his own choices. The hack he was caught using didn't install itself on his PC. He didn't click a link in a web page / IRC and it downloaded itself and activated itself when he joined a server.
He made a choice. And if the consequences of that choice were clearly stated (in future) : "make that choice = never play officials again" then we wouldn't be in this situation. He'd never have made the choice, they'd never have been any debate about whether he did or didn't use the hack in a match, and xfire would have several 1000 less posts on the issue!
Zero tolerance might sound, and is, harsh, but it's the only workable solution until we have the technology / resources to implement a fairer policy.
If it's considered acceptable for the competitive part of the community piss on the part of the community that plays on pubs, then we're also accepting that the pubbers that goes competitive will bring the smell with them. :P
kendle for prez
However since I have a 6 month ban I'm just gonna wait it out. I know that I did something stupid and I'm gonna pay the price for that.
iirc, after a first ban if you get caught again it's a permanent ban? Don't you think it would be a little unfair if players of keran, shy and perfo ability were permanently banned after thier first stupid mistake?
At the moment there's a grey area. You can download a hack, install it on your PC, use it on a pub, maybe, if you're careful, etc. and you might get a non-permanent ban if you're stupid enough to get caught.
If the policy were clear : install hack = you're gone
they'd be no grey area. You would simply never, ever let a hack near your hard-drive (something that's extemely EASY to do).
Once we're at that point there's no dispute about did they or didn't they use it in a certain context. The fact the hack was there would be enough to condemn that person.
At the moment there's a very big grey area because every offense is seemingly judged on it's merits, making it open to interpretation (and therefore whine) and no judgement will ever receive 100% support (probably not even 50% support) because the "seriousness" of the crime and the severity of the sentence will ALWAYS be open to criticism.
Most know he his good enough as a player, and doesn't need external help. His IP matches though, and he is banned.
Would it be fair if he was permanently banned for something he can't control, and that isn't fully proved? No.
A lot of people are forgetting that gaming is a pass time, a way to have fun. Some people are really draining the fun out of it. There are second chances all over the place, in life and in sports, so why not have the same with gaming?
"Mercy is the mark of a great man" - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly.
On the one hand I'd say bans needn't be permanent, they only need to the SAME for every offender. It's the fact people are, or have been, treated differently that seems to be the main bone of contention. So as long as everyone received the same length ban it needn't be permanent.
However that's only in the interests of consistency. We must not deal out bans based on the nature of the offense otherwise we're a) saying some forms of cheat are "OK" in the sense they're "less bad" than others and b) people will always argue their case is for the lesser offense so as to receive the lesser punishment, and the whine that accompanies that argument will be just as bad as what we have now.
Also, how many people do you suppose share an IP? I've seen a couple of people say they do, but how many does it really apply to? Out of every 100 ET players how many share an IP? 5%? Less? Perfo's ban may seem severe but if we allow shared IPs to influence bans everyone accused is going to have a shared IP! If we ignore the existence of shared IPs a few innocent people may suffer, but the vast majority would enjoy a cleaner game as a result.
FUCK YOU CLANBASE
It was a mistake, oopsy!
I thought you were more intelligent.
Ps. I am using fedora 6, with FF 1.5, no spellchecker included. Wonder why when ppl is lacking of arguments use the english grammar to argue.
The difference is I know the facts and I am sure if I eplain explain him why we acted like we have done in all that cases you mentioning, his answers would be rather different than the ones you got.
there are 2 people in all of clanbase [the whole department] making the bans official and accepting the bans, these being Moa and Iceblokje. These 2 ban people from all games, not just ET, so they have a pending list, clearly keran and shy werent on top of the pending list..
and as many others have said, clans with players banned recently have had some results overturned yes?
someone show me if their clan got a default lost cause of one of your players getting banned
total bullshit
back when razz was cought using revatuner, during a fun-war(3v3), all matches of hx were forfeied.
ClanBase policy changed on middle Nov 2006. Razz case ,which I was completely responsible for him ban, were regit by the old C&A rules.
Now go and trust sol.
edit: i would be happy if would i get a answer.
new rule:
not unchanged imo
in my opinion it was a mistake to make a public statement -.-
imo get over the razz case, didnt they say sorry for inconsistancies
Nice understatement.
With other words, they can do whatever the fook they want at any time! And if the policy is outdated it's because of the holidays.
Was there any evidence of razz using rivatuner during a cb match?
forfeit pro5 - dignitas he played the decider when banned!!!!!!!
and explain this to razz and the former team helix, same rules but team helix get kicked out of EC :S
gg CBretards
I agree with Kendle, if zero tolerance isn't implemented, then your open to alot of hassle. They probably havent cheated in officials, but no-one knows that for sure. I hate the excuse of "omg they went to lan they dont cheat", doesn't mean anything. I am sure people can add and remove cheats from there configs. It may be harsh , and I feel for the team that it gets done to, but all the matches must be forfeited. The fact that teams wasted there time playing pro5 isnt very fair. We should have seen Cadre, Impact dignitas and TLR fighting for Eurocup Gold.
As other's have also stated, past examples like Helix were made to forfeit there games. This is worse than rivatuner, but you say the rules have changed, why? :<
I also wanna repeat my statement about pro5. They saw the evidence and shy and keran probably talked to the team about what they did. So imo they should get punished too for letting them play although they were sure they were getting banned.
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Wow, CB have no clue about what they do. In many similar cases I have seen so far, the whole teams got banned and their matches were forfeited. You don't have to look back to find an example, check team viSual's case which occured this season in 3on3 OpenCup. Their members were caught cheating on a public and banned after their matches, but still the team got red carded.
One of the chief CB admins, after having seen few cases like that, said that the decisions that were made were wrong (razz's case included) and he'll try to fix them wherever possible.
To CB: If you can't stick to your own rules and act accordingly, could you please at least stop lying? Thanks in advance.
The ones we had demos from his official matches with 100% clear proof they were using at least wallhack ?
Tell me where we didn't follow our own rules.
Cheat type Cheating in a public server
Stop kidding me :XD , and how can u say that player has wallhack if u only see demo ? nice proof .
" In-game cheating during a ClanBase match:
Cheating (aimbot, wallhack, spiked models, ...): 12 month ban for the player. If the cheating occured in a Cup match, the clan will be removed from the cup. "
Have you ever heard about r_shownormals, a player tracking someone behind a wall ? yes a demo can be a good proof to ban someone.
Ps. I don't understand why players are now trying to defend cheaters. Go and help cheatbuster guys, they are doing a great work for the game and helping the community and not you with your nonsense flame.
Don't ask me why his ban was registered like that. The ban time is right and the clan remove as well. I can't be arsed to waste more time with them.
still they find a way to lie