CDC4 was a fantastic event, statistically speaking it was a monster of an event and it dwarfed everything that had gone before it in the project. That being the case, its quite fitting that the series should bow out on a high as there will not be a CDC5, but that doesn’t mean the end of LANs run by this group.
Infact its quite the opposite, its the dawn of a far bigger project because as I’ve mentioned to you previously - the charitable fashion in which these LANs are run just loses its appeal after a while. For an example, every admin worked a minimum of 14 hours a day and paid for everything out of their own pocket and that is just the event itself, I cannot begin to estimate the varying levels of workload that go into the event in the months before it. So you have to realise that there’s no room to expand the budget on this current model without reducing what are already not brilliant prizepurses.
The event must expand to survive – that is a fact, but expansion has the potential to kill what we have and its the first point that must be safeguarded against. I really enjoy ESWC and WCG events, mainly because I have something to do at them but for those who don’t have something to do they can be difficult. You almost feel afraid to go up and talk to players at the event, at CDC that could never be further from the truth, whether its just random drunkenness or a game of poker people tend to mingle even if there is some game segregation. And that mingling is what this event is, its a social event not a pro gaming event. Of all the LANs I’ve attended, CDC is the biggest social event out there without being BYOC (bring your own computer). The atmosphere that we have is what makes people come back, not the matches.
So expanding and savouring that atmosphere is a huge challenge, as you saw this weekend Crossfire a predominantly ET community focused its external coverage on CoD4 not ET, something that annoyed the purists. As a result QuadV demolished all previous CDC viewing figures by a country mile, so from a business perspective it was good but from a community perspective it was bad. Whilst that had an effect on those who came to watch, it didn’t have an effect on those who’s main enjoyment out of the event is getting drunk and playing poker – especially as there was more space and more poker matches going on than ever before. More poker was only possible by having more space, which was only possible by having a huge CoD4 tournament, a tournament that saw Crossfire on many of the major eSports sites but cost ET its QuadV coverage. Can you see the very many dilemmas that are faced? Each action has a number of different reactions.
Expanding the tournament means more games – because in order to increase the budget you need more signup revenue and more human traffic makes it much more appealing for sponsors. This means turning to the big two, CS 1.6 & Source. Oh no, I hear you say, TosspoT is going to put those games on Crossfire and let them take over the event, he’s just killed ET (again). Far from it my friends. Knowing that I’m very well aware of what makes this event enjoyable for people you should realise it will not come at that expense, neither will it see CS on Crossfire. It does mean that the event will become its own entity, It will no longer be the Crossfire Challenge. However that doesn’t matter because Crossfire will be so intertwined with the ET & CoD tournaments that you won’t notice the difference I assure you. (this is not to say games like Quakewars & Warsow, or even TF2 are ruled out of being at the event)
I’ve talked about expansion as a negative thing as it goes against the points that make the event what it is. However trusting that I’m very much aware of that, lets think about the positives of what that can do.
ET is not growing anymore, no new organisations are picking it up and people are still looking at CS 1.6 and now CoD4 for competitive games. What if these ‘people’ are looking at the CS 1.6 final at the new event between Fnatic and SK-Gaming and just as they come to watch it they’re waiting on the ET final to finish between TLR and Pinkgorillas. To put ET up on the same pedestal that the big games are on will expand its audience ten fold and there in lies its benefits to purist. So what if you could have an event just like CDC3 (the most successful for the purists) but it was watched by the pro-gaming world aswell as the Crossfire world? If anything can help the competitions in this game its by expanding its audience.
This is something that we cannot do in our current home in WZZRD Enschede, but it is something we can do in conjunction with WZZRD Enschede by moving 20 meters across the road to the massive expo hall that sits opposite the venue, which is the current proposal on where to host the event. Its not set in stone but its the most likely area as we’ve got a comfort zone of wzzrd to help out, if we do go elsewhere (something that of course comes at a cost) it will be elsewhere in Holland, the event won’t leave what I consider to be the most convenient country to run an event in. However any new venue needs to have the ability for each game to semi-segregate itself in allowing purists to have a home in each game.
Then there are other things that need changing. If you go out in the group stages you’ve come a long way for just a couple of matches and that needs improving, there needs to be a loser tournament. This is something that I think will improve the community factor of the event by motivating all sorts of teams to attend for the weekend. That being the case, you need enough PC’s to allow that many matches and any amount of teams to come that want to come, another challenge - whilst BYOC may be a future addition, TUP (Turn up and play) will always be at these events.
CDC4 despite being the end of this era was a fantastic learning experience of a controlled expansion. We doubled in size and learnt greatly about the scheduling, hardware, electrical and social benefits and limits in each department. Whilst it was a small expansion, we got to see what its like to setup a network, have people in different rooms and so on. Really this was of huge benefit in terms of where we go with any expansion.
As for a CDC4 review, theres not a great deal to say that hasn’t already been said either by me or in the journals. I am extremely proud of it, the team did a job beyond anyones expectations. There were at least 400 people there, yet there were just 4 fulltime game admins (morg, taken, cash, adacore) – that’s 100 people (although not all competitors) per match admin. The coverage was sublime, pedro and chosen with help from atarax’s photos were simply sublime. The servers and tech support was better than ever courtesy of Bart from Ravenwood and Jordan from Wzzrd and courtesy of a combined tech effort from tala & beav the site was impeccable. Throw in the excellent job done by arni, skooli and the GamesTV.org crew and the ever present QuadV and I really could not have asked for a better team to work with. And then there was Penn (thx Pedro). You can almost can consider him like an ant. The load of work that he could bear on his shoulder surely exceeds his body masses a few times. Adminning tournaments, fixing computers, making the cheques while breaking up fights is by far the best multitasking male present at the LAN.
We’ve received a lot of constructive feedback on what people would like for the next event and would like to keep that coming in, based on what you now know what would you like to see? Regardless of that a huge thank you to everyone that attended CDC4 and made it so very enjoyable for those who attended. We’ll see you again in September!
Infact its quite the opposite, its the dawn of a far bigger project because as I’ve mentioned to you previously - the charitable fashion in which these LANs are run just loses its appeal after a while. For an example, every admin worked a minimum of 14 hours a day and paid for everything out of their own pocket and that is just the event itself, I cannot begin to estimate the varying levels of workload that go into the event in the months before it. So you have to realise that there’s no room to expand the budget on this current model without reducing what are already not brilliant prizepurses.
The event must expand to survive – that is a fact, but expansion has the potential to kill what we have and its the first point that must be safeguarded against. I really enjoy ESWC and WCG events, mainly because I have something to do at them but for those who don’t have something to do they can be difficult. You almost feel afraid to go up and talk to players at the event, at CDC that could never be further from the truth, whether its just random drunkenness or a game of poker people tend to mingle even if there is some game segregation. And that mingling is what this event is, its a social event not a pro gaming event. Of all the LANs I’ve attended, CDC is the biggest social event out there without being BYOC (bring your own computer). The atmosphere that we have is what makes people come back, not the matches.
So expanding and savouring that atmosphere is a huge challenge, as you saw this weekend Crossfire a predominantly ET community focused its external coverage on CoD4 not ET, something that annoyed the purists. As a result QuadV demolished all previous CDC viewing figures by a country mile, so from a business perspective it was good but from a community perspective it was bad. Whilst that had an effect on those who came to watch, it didn’t have an effect on those who’s main enjoyment out of the event is getting drunk and playing poker – especially as there was more space and more poker matches going on than ever before. More poker was only possible by having more space, which was only possible by having a huge CoD4 tournament, a tournament that saw Crossfire on many of the major eSports sites but cost ET its QuadV coverage. Can you see the very many dilemmas that are faced? Each action has a number of different reactions.
Expanding the tournament means more games – because in order to increase the budget you need more signup revenue and more human traffic makes it much more appealing for sponsors. This means turning to the big two, CS 1.6 & Source. Oh no, I hear you say, TosspoT is going to put those games on Crossfire and let them take over the event, he’s just killed ET (again). Far from it my friends. Knowing that I’m very well aware of what makes this event enjoyable for people you should realise it will not come at that expense, neither will it see CS on Crossfire. It does mean that the event will become its own entity, It will no longer be the Crossfire Challenge. However that doesn’t matter because Crossfire will be so intertwined with the ET & CoD tournaments that you won’t notice the difference I assure you. (this is not to say games like Quakewars & Warsow, or even TF2 are ruled out of being at the event)
I’ve talked about expansion as a negative thing as it goes against the points that make the event what it is. However trusting that I’m very much aware of that, lets think about the positives of what that can do.
ET is not growing anymore, no new organisations are picking it up and people are still looking at CS 1.6 and now CoD4 for competitive games. What if these ‘people’ are looking at the CS 1.6 final at the new event between Fnatic and SK-Gaming and just as they come to watch it they’re waiting on the ET final to finish between TLR and Pinkgorillas. To put ET up on the same pedestal that the big games are on will expand its audience ten fold and there in lies its benefits to purist. So what if you could have an event just like CDC3 (the most successful for the purists) but it was watched by the pro-gaming world aswell as the Crossfire world? If anything can help the competitions in this game its by expanding its audience.
This is something that we cannot do in our current home in WZZRD Enschede, but it is something we can do in conjunction with WZZRD Enschede by moving 20 meters across the road to the massive expo hall that sits opposite the venue, which is the current proposal on where to host the event. Its not set in stone but its the most likely area as we’ve got a comfort zone of wzzrd to help out, if we do go elsewhere (something that of course comes at a cost) it will be elsewhere in Holland, the event won’t leave what I consider to be the most convenient country to run an event in. However any new venue needs to have the ability for each game to semi-segregate itself in allowing purists to have a home in each game.
Then there are other things that need changing. If you go out in the group stages you’ve come a long way for just a couple of matches and that needs improving, there needs to be a loser tournament. This is something that I think will improve the community factor of the event by motivating all sorts of teams to attend for the weekend. That being the case, you need enough PC’s to allow that many matches and any amount of teams to come that want to come, another challenge - whilst BYOC may be a future addition, TUP (Turn up and play) will always be at these events.
CDC4 despite being the end of this era was a fantastic learning experience of a controlled expansion. We doubled in size and learnt greatly about the scheduling, hardware, electrical and social benefits and limits in each department. Whilst it was a small expansion, we got to see what its like to setup a network, have people in different rooms and so on. Really this was of huge benefit in terms of where we go with any expansion.
As for a CDC4 review, theres not a great deal to say that hasn’t already been said either by me or in the journals. I am extremely proud of it, the team did a job beyond anyones expectations. There were at least 400 people there, yet there were just 4 fulltime game admins (morg, taken, cash, adacore) – that’s 100 people (although not all competitors) per match admin. The coverage was sublime, pedro and chosen with help from atarax’s photos were simply sublime. The servers and tech support was better than ever courtesy of Bart from Ravenwood and Jordan from Wzzrd and courtesy of a combined tech effort from tala & beav the site was impeccable. Throw in the excellent job done by arni, skooli and the GamesTV.org crew and the ever present QuadV and I really could not have asked for a better team to work with. And then there was Penn (thx Pedro). You can almost can consider him like an ant. The load of work that he could bear on his shoulder surely exceeds his body masses a few times. Adminning tournaments, fixing computers, making the cheques while breaking up fights is by far the best multitasking male present at the LAN.
We’ve received a lot of constructive feedback on what people would like for the next event and would like to keep that coming in, based on what you now know what would you like to see? Regardless of that a huge thank you to everyone that attended CDC4 and made it so very enjoyable for those who attended. We’ll see you again in September!
Looking forward to it!
specific details already (exact date) ?
although iirc that one ended at the fourth of september..
oh, and "waiting on the ET final to finish between TLR and Pinkgorillas" <-- wishful thinking? :P
hopefully see u in september :) (please choose good dates :D)
Very very good !!!
Well done guys.
The other group that will be traveling by car from countries like germany will probably have to drive a bit further but I think that it will benefit the plane-takers more by doing it near our capital than it will benefit the car-takers by organizing it in Enschede.
Anyway I have no idea whatshowever about the organizing stuff etc and I don't even know if there is a possibility of doing an event like this near Amsterdam but if you feel like doing an event waaaaaaay bigger than cdc4 it surely will attract more people from countries further away so therefor it might not be a bad idea to look at a place closer to the airport.
But you its better to search for something like Utrecht;)
That would be better then Amsterdam, cause Amsterdam is just way to expencive not only to rent a building to hold it in but also the staying place's will be way to expencive;)!
But i like to see you guys in september and i doesn't matter where it will be hold but i'm there for sure. Just to from behind my pc to CDC 4 how everything is settled is just awsome and i don't wanna miss it in september;)!
So goodluck with the organisation next time tosspot and the crew;)!
The main problem with Enschede for me is the location, there is a very small amount of hotels and the ones there are quite expencive and bad to be honest. Also the supply of supermarkets or restaurants isnt very good.
Wzzrd is a nice gaming cafe and the bar is great but playing right next to the bar with a shitload of smoke must have been crap.
All in all a very good event but could be moved closer to Amsterdam if possible (or Rotterdam as Ryanair fly there :D). Admins were doing a great job and should be paid before you increase prize money.
But nais job anyways :)
september = great for me, but I do go 1 week on holiday, so I hope cdc and that vacation dont have the same date :DDDDDD
One thing though, i'm afraid the expansion you are talking of right now for the next event will really require a different position to host. I can imagine the 'gravity' of the decision to move somewhere else as the cooperation with wzzrd in enschede has been immensely helpful so far and moving away from wzzrd will mean quite a big step.
The reason i am thinking a different position for the LAN is necesary though, is because it's getting harder and harder for players to find proper places to stay around the current LAN position. The hotels, for as far as present, are all very expensive apart from the Boekelo one. But Boekelo is not as easily accessible for everyone i suppose as it's about 10 to 15 minutes by car. As for the university houses, they are perfect for this sort of thing ofcource but they only offer a limited amount of sleeping places.
I suppose you already have or will be thinking this through thoroughly with everyone on the crew but hosting the event somewhere in utrecht might be a very good alternative. It"s very easy to reach and who knows perhaps wzzrd utrecht can be of a lot of assistance if you're hosting it somewhere around their venue.
anyway im looking forward to see what u, cash and the others come up with... good luck
eindhoven and rotterdam do indeed have international airports but flights from most major directions (especially scandinavia which is ofcource a huge gamerprovidingplace:D) will be much cheaper to amsterdam than to rdam and eindhoven. Therefore i guess people will still be flying to amsterdam even if you do host it at either one of those which sort of takes away the advantage.
That still leaves the difference in renting price for the venue i guess though.
As milk says, as an alternative for enschede utrecht will most likely be your best pick although the fact that there is a nighttrain to amsterdam would be one of the less important reasons i suppose :P
can fly to eindhoven,brussels or dusseldorf airport and still not have much to travel :D
hoping to contribute again in September at CDC5..cu there!
but you made it all OK again with the word
last but not least :P
as i was there as player i have to say the shedule wasnt too good for quite some teams, what i experienced by my own and what i heared from other teams.
in my case i had to play a game at 9:00 friday, the next right after it and then my team had to wait all the time till 3:30 in the night to play the third what isnt a good base to have a proper game.
well im sure there were reasons for the massive delay, but seeing et players playing public to have a proper warmup and having a setup time for more than 1 hour, leaves a bad taste, while u have to set up in 15 mins in the night.
this is not about complaining, but why dont u just set these guys a limit and put a dealine ?
another idea would be to let the teams play more games in a row to save some time from setting up the pcs. every time u had 4 teams sitting there what would lead to idea having 3 games in a row instead of setting up and leaving again.
but as u wrote above the venue was at its limits :)
well im really looking forward to additional events, as still the social aspect gives it a special touch
u cant offer them so much time, no matter what game ;)
taken was raging in our backs while we set up and it helps to be fast.
basicly the setup guide here on xfire was brilliant, if every1 would ve done it that way, and even practiced it before it would worked out better.
last but not least take an example by looking as mr.bullvox aka "i setup in less than a minute"
anyways good job by leading such an event
(some used to make some fake problems only in order to give their teammates more warmup time.)
I would have insta banned u for sure >_>
HI!
another thing is to bring the ET teams to setup and start instantly instead of allowing them to play 1 hour warmups on public.
except of those things everything was fine as usual
Maybe it needed a bit more details in the match reports and stuff. (Even with our inet access with the ravenwood wifi, we hardly knew what happened on other games - only the scores.)
I just hope i can make it to the next event.
staying there for 3 days and play 1 game for 2 hours a day is most retarded thing i ever did
But still it's better to have finals on sunday.
I thought it was pretty fun :<
if thats not possible like cdc4 make it BYOC
No qualifiers for ET please =<
Hopefully ET:QW will continue to feature.
and the location was way to small imo. even if you have only 100 ppl comming to lan. Imo every player should fit in the lan area or it's to small :D
So, it sounds good to me :)
if it's during my sommer vacation I would be able to do it, but otherwise can't be sure
Your vision for the future sounds interesting - gl with it.
early september is a good timing ;)