Crossfire events have become somewhat of a proving ground for ET players who's online performances have raised questions over the legitimacy of their supposed skill. With current anti-cheat being so poor and the surprise bust of team overload, the community has every right to be sceptical. In the current climate you can never be too sure if a new star player is naturally gifted or yet another netcoders customer.
Years ago, during the days when DSky and .gs ruled the roost, no-one was accusing Mystic of cheating. It wasn't the done thing. Great players came and went, without a sniff of a cheating accusation. In the present day, after being on the receiving end of three headshots, it is far easier to say to ourselves "he's cheating" than it is to admit "that was a great shot". At what point did it become the norm to accuse anyone of cheating?
The first major cheating case I remember reading about was that of Razz. (I wasn't particularly up to speed with crossfire at the time of alexL & Sgt. Peppers busts). It was unfathomable that someone had slipped through the Punkbuster net and was pulling the wool over the communities eyes. The bust did the contrary; due to the widespread coverage of Razz's mishap, my faith in Punkbuster was slashed. If this little Scot had been cheating, which other rivatuner users had I been playing against? Fast forward past the Fusenlist and accusations are rife as to who is the next to be busted.
Many players active in the scene today were once upon a time caught cheating. Few, like UKs own, Hype, are stupid enough to be caught more than once, and thus can never be trusted. For those who've been around since the dawn of time *cough* Ronner *cough*, we know who has a cheating history and who is as clean as a whistle. But with our community welcoming new blood on a daily basis, not everyone can be so sure.
This brings us onto Crossfire's roll in all of this. Before CC5 there were a number of players who's recent showings had been a little 'too good' without the reputation to match. Sitting in the dock while making their way to Enschede were Butchji, Naga, Shaky and Parra, to name a few. Despite years of cheating allegations thrown his way, butchji has returned time after time to The Netherlands, eager to let his MP40 do the talking. Ever greeted with a smile, Butchji seemed confident on the first day. And rightly so. A series of inspired performances culminating in Epsilon taking home the Gold. However, this isn't the first time Butchji has performed on LAN yet returned to cheating allegations. Perhaps now he will be given the respect he deserves as a proven player. Naga, winner of the Newcomer Award (the most impressive performer taking part at their first event) produced consistent frags from the top drawer. Special mentions as well to Shaky, Parra and the entire PolagZ team, who had raised eyebrows online but now in person as well. Also, let us not forget that mAus was once in the crosshairs of the accusers, until an MVP effort at CPC2 silenced every single last critic. With players making the transition from online-only to LAN-proven with consummate ease, it really does beg the question, who cheats?
Perhaps it's time we apologised to all the players we've accused on ET servers or community websites, who have shown us that they have what it takes on the big stage. Some will argue that a great performance at LAN doesn't prove that said players don't use cheats while at home, but surely this is clutching at straws. If a player is good enough to wow spectators with no aid, why the need?
Coming into CC5, I personally had a few players who's performances I would be keeping a close eye on. Now that the event is over and the dust has settled, I'm quite looking forward to being proven wrong again in April 2009 at CC6.
Years ago, during the days when DSky and .gs ruled the roost, no-one was accusing Mystic of cheating. It wasn't the done thing. Great players came and went, without a sniff of a cheating accusation. In the present day, after being on the receiving end of three headshots, it is far easier to say to ourselves "he's cheating" than it is to admit "that was a great shot". At what point did it become the norm to accuse anyone of cheating?
The first major cheating case I remember reading about was that of Razz. (I wasn't particularly up to speed with crossfire at the time of alexL & Sgt. Peppers busts). It was unfathomable that someone had slipped through the Punkbuster net and was pulling the wool over the communities eyes. The bust did the contrary; due to the widespread coverage of Razz's mishap, my faith in Punkbuster was slashed. If this little Scot had been cheating, which other rivatuner users had I been playing against? Fast forward past the Fusenlist and accusations are rife as to who is the next to be busted.
Many players active in the scene today were once upon a time caught cheating. Few, like UKs own, Hype, are stupid enough to be caught more than once, and thus can never be trusted. For those who've been around since the dawn of time *cough* Ronner *cough*, we know who has a cheating history and who is as clean as a whistle. But with our community welcoming new blood on a daily basis, not everyone can be so sure.
This brings us onto Crossfire's roll in all of this. Before CC5 there were a number of players who's recent showings had been a little 'too good' without the reputation to match. Sitting in the dock while making their way to Enschede were Butchji, Naga, Shaky and Parra, to name a few. Despite years of cheating allegations thrown his way, butchji has returned time after time to The Netherlands, eager to let his MP40 do the talking. Ever greeted with a smile, Butchji seemed confident on the first day. And rightly so. A series of inspired performances culminating in Epsilon taking home the Gold. However, this isn't the first time Butchji has performed on LAN yet returned to cheating allegations. Perhaps now he will be given the respect he deserves as a proven player. Naga, winner of the Newcomer Award (the most impressive performer taking part at their first event) produced consistent frags from the top drawer. Special mentions as well to Shaky, Parra and the entire PolagZ team, who had raised eyebrows online but now in person as well. Also, let us not forget that mAus was once in the crosshairs of the accusers, until an MVP effort at CPC2 silenced every single last critic. With players making the transition from online-only to LAN-proven with consummate ease, it really does beg the question, who cheats?
Perhaps it's time we apologised to all the players we've accused on ET servers or community websites, who have shown us that they have what it takes on the big stage. Some will argue that a great performance at LAN doesn't prove that said players don't use cheats while at home, but surely this is clutching at straws. If a player is good enough to wow spectators with no aid, why the need?
Coming into CC5, I personally had a few players who's performances I would be keeping a close eye on. Now that the event is over and the dust has settled, I'm quite looking forward to being proven wrong again in April 2009 at CC6.
Those that surely proved themselves in my book (and in many of those being at CC5): domi, modus, krein, naga, entire F2k bunch, the top aimers in AoW. They all posessed great skill that prove potential great futures from them.
Now don't get me wrong, I never suspected any of those, because even suspicion doesn't mean potential hackers for me. Prove needs to be there.
I'm glad a number of people had the chance & took advantage of the chance to lan prove themselves. Unlike some people I'm always much happier to conclude somebody isn't cheating rather than are.
hackusations kill this game just as much as hacks.
About the razz case, I need to emphasize that rivatuner isn't such a cheat and I guess a lot ppl used it back then. Even raziel recommended it. Pb wouldn't ever have noticed that as a hack anyway, but after all the usage was seen in the pb shots by chaoz. Actually at that time I didn't even know that rivatuner wasn't allowed. I remember razz saying something about using it and being able to shoot through bushes but I didn't put a lot thought on it that time..
And finally onto the cheating topic. I've said for some time already that it's not the cheaters to kill ET but the hype and paranoia about them. I'm kinda positive that very few ppl on the high skill level are hacking and even that amount seems to be decreasing. Anyway, our community isn't very friendly towards the newcomers, because everyone will get accused at some point before one prooves himself one way or another.
...which is the rule that Razz broke
And also rivatuner was in common use that time, like I said even raziel suggested it :)
This has caused a shift in mentality. You're either a cheater-lover or cheater-hater. There are few people who can objectively decide what is best for the community - i.e. the people in the middle. While the 'cheater-lovers' don't help anyone holding a moral high ground like most 'cheater-haters' do is counter-productive.
The question people should be asking is not who is a cheater, but if you've cheated have you served your ban? If not then it's these players who the community must learn deal with. This is why I've no problems with Killerboy. Regardless of how, apparently, retarded he gets his contribution to the community at this point in time is priceless.
This is an A to B conversation so if you would kindly C your way out.
Those who cheat and serve their ban should be integrated back into the community without stigma because everyone makes mistakes. LAN's should be used as a means to prove how good people are, and banning someone from LAN is about the worst thing 'we' can do as a community.
Giving people two-year bans is just impractical these days. Clanbase and ESL should come to some agreement about this and stabilise the system. Crossfire (LAN's) exist outside this and are free to do as they please.
no consequence = no care
In gaming cheating is the most serious of violations & those who choose to commit these acts should be permanently removed.
Bear in mind, I am very anti-cheater. I'm just playing devils advocate here.
I don't care which way you slice it, the current approach of punishing hackers is a failure of epic proportions & it starts with this mentality that it's not such a terrible thing to do when in fact it really is. It's a crime against every person that player has ever competed against, it calls the validity of every match they've participated in into question & kills the overall integrity of the community.
So do you not think that a more severe consequence would be more of a deterrent then?
Like I said, I just don't know. I can't imagine the thought process behind it. Fortunately ban lengths arern't up to me, thankfully.
I've cheated in Need for speed and 2moons, does that mean I should be banned or punished in some way? :(
However I must say I am surprised that you cheated as you seemed relatively sensible.
e.g. I bet the vast majority of people on here who's owned a playstation has tapped in some super1337 command to get unlimited health or all levels. That's basically the same as any other form of cheating, giving you an advantage over say people who do not know the command :P
So in other words, giving this is an ET based post, does it really matter if somebody has cheated in a different game? :)
But yeah, I think it'd go down to a personal thing though, like some people would agree that say someone cheated in a playstation 1 game is always a cheater, regardless of the game : D
btw, how would you pronounce shuki? chuckie? shuqi? : D
And pretty much yeah, cheating to get an upper hand on online games is pretty low. My distinction is when you are cheating and trying to pretend you’re not. Those are the people I just think are retarded.
Even tho he cheated, doesnt mean he did cheat all the time online, he prolly just have tested it / played with it for fun, like most of the cs/css players does.
n0thing himself even stated that the cheats actually helped him improve his gamesense because he started to learn places where people commonly hid. Normally, if you aren't cheating, by the time you get to those people they'll already have ran off/shifted positions but he wanted to know where they were initially. His LAN aim was pretty much on par with his online aim, so I think he was banned for having clear walls instead of aimbotting.
RaZZ i think it's a bad example to accuse him of cheating he just used a program many ppl used in that times:D, but nvm.
CHEATING in games is the lowest thing in your life you are able to do. You are not skilled the program is. In past 5 years i saw ET dayin. For 1 year it was as good as dead (most ppl cheating on public servers). But then something has happened dunno what but ET is still alive(thanks GOD). Oh and i forgot the PERFO's case -.- (and his brother), rly i laughed when i heard his explanation. Even more he was banned for wallhacking when he played against STg. Pepper xD 2 cheaters with WH. It was funny when both of them accused each other of wallhacking during the match xD.
In my opinion bust should be permament (I mean the 2nd bust). Every one should be given a 2nd chance:). Maybe except gnajda he is from PL xD (mainly called Hackerland)
Nevertheless Have a nice day and cheat more in ur life nC customers hope u will understand ur misstake (rtrds).
TO SOL: Where the fuck is my ban? xD
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Yeah was really funny, except that never happened.
I'll have to agree there. It's the same thing I do a lot. Although when I feel that player has proven him on LAN I'll just accept he just killed me. But when a player is "online only" I indeed say a lot easier, he's cheating.
I'll try to think different now :P
damn gamehookers
Most people seem to underestimate the extreme skill gaps there actually are between a med/high player and a really high player. When I played butchji & co. when I was just new to EC and all I had problems landing kills, it has become better but I am still not better than they are if you'd only compare us aimwise. There are opportunities where I kill them of course, but that might be because of better positioning/backrape/luck/whatever.
I think it's those skill gaps that make people paranoid, especially with the distorted skill in ET: crossfire med+ can NEVER handle a REAL highskilled game in 3on3/6on6 -> they get raged -> they think the opposing team cheats. That's very much how the current action-reaction scheme is.
Too many people are overrating themself, announcing med+ all the time... The hard truth is: most of med+ players are only medskillers, with high ego...
You have to know your limits, havent you?
ps. considering your opinion about skillgaps, i must be really good because playing 3o3 against highskilled players almost never was a problem :D
And yes this is a bit reffering to me :p
In 6o6 u need all players to perform at a high level and with good teamplay if u want to give real highskilled teams a good fight. Allthough i still think it varies from team to team, every team has its own playing style and types of players. So even if u win one highskilled team u might not do so good against another skilled team.
So basically its not just a skill gap, real highskilled teams are so much better than crossfire med+ like u call it, because they got a higher concentration of really good players and probably a better combination of types of players. Which is why most lower skilled clans stay together for much longer, they dont care if there is one person that performs abit worse than the other ones. They want to perform good WITH that person, not better WITHOUT him.
greetz from a real lowskiller =) (never let our clanmates down)
Different table, chair, monitor, stress caused by the crowd behind you...
On the other hand you may play on a decent level offline, and turning on your cheat after returning to home to show even greater performance...
Sad but true: PB cant give us any guarantee of "clean game" , so people start to be paranoic... And they forget - its only a game...
Was watching FlyingDJ's life shoutcast at that time and following everything, it really came as a shock.
But to react on your column .. well I'd love that it was so easy to just say "nice shot" but there are just too many cheaters in the current scene ..
but u should be able to see how smart someone plays online and offline, if he looks around more or plays more defensive/agressive and lots more. And it's hard to notice such things.
this is true ye :p
if I have enough time before the respawn I usually also tell this to the opponent @mm1
Wish I was you :(
Waiting to cc6, cua there!
cua there honey!
Years ago, during the days when DSky and .gs ruled the roost, no-one was accusing Mystic of hacking cheating
theres no such thing as "using rivatuner", it only modifies ur nvidia settings file, like many other programs do being alternatives for nvidia control panel, those programs have more options like that lodbias change ability
so how could PB detect him? well it did because of screenshot system and u turn it around and blame it..
for me naga was the only one in that lan that i suspected might be cheating
now im just happy to know he isnt, so his good performance in matches doesnt annoy me anymore
Sure it might not be in the same category as flatout aimbotting or wallhacking, but the way rivatuner was used DID give razz an unfair advantage over other players wether he meant for it to or not. You can't argue that seeing through trees and foliage (and anything else that would've been affected) doesn't give an advantage..
thats why they've only shown the decider (gold) on quadv :( which didn't show our whole potential ... we haven't been good on that map over the whole tournament..
imagine a 4:0 win against the cup winner ^^
Because ET is already kinda old, there are only 3 groups of skill left:
- low+, decent aim, not much gamesense or teamplay (20% of the community)
- med, a large group with decent to good aim/gamesense (75% of the community)
- highskilled (5% of the community, maybe even less)
The med scene is the real problem. This group has soooo many cheaters. They don't get much attention, but they ruin competitive ET for the majority of the community. It was one of the reasons I quit ET, because at some point it was more rare to find a scrim against a clean team than against cheaters. And it has nothing to do with being paranoid. Lots of players I suspected showed up on the banlists and nC lists. They're unknown for most people, but they still ruin the game for lots of us. Sadly those "busted" players are probably just the tip of the iceberg. Which also affects talented players, because they get suspected easily.
P.S: pansy cheats
and then they come home, tell mummy and daddy how it was, then log on on their computer and realize there is nothing left to prac for.
Everyone needs a goal to achieve something, when it's gone they do things like hacking on pubs.
Nowadays cc6 seemed to be anounced even before cc5 was held and the thought of "ET WILL BE DEAD AFTER LAN" seems to be gone after 5 lans when it was quite different.
I think this has a big influence on the decreasing cheater-amount.
tbh I only accuse players of cheating when their cb accounts are less than 2 weeks old and shooting 3 headies all the way. I suppose its just frustrating to believe someone can be so much better than you, even though you have played it since the release.
when they were cheating their perfomance was exactly the opposite.
why are you still playing ET ?
and why are you still whining about cheaters
i promise u, the people u think who cheat would pwn u on lan
i wanna see anyone who pwnz alexl or savage on lan
stop whining about hax, u dont have any skill
its just a fucking game
but the way u act , u would think its your entire life
lets all spend 5 yuroz @ CC6 to get some landodgers who cant go cause of money their if they #epicfail we can still make them eat the "literally armlong" you-know-what ;P
As you should be well aware of that playing good or decent on a LAN doesn't have to mean that a player didn't, don't and won't cheat online.
*And after seeing the edit where you say that "why would they need help online while not offline", to get an edge? We don't exactly see the same score from the teams online as offline. ofc you could argue some get used to the enviroment quicker, but if we are to base who cheats or not on their respective performance that hard you wouldn't see a single whole team which doesn't use cheat(although TLR would be damn close and team belgium which cheated).
If I am to state a well based, but unrevealed, opinion I think there is more guys that start cheating after LANs than who quits cheating because of a LAN.
Oh, and afaik there wasn't any cheats made/released at gunslingers time, atleast not anything worse than msn wallhack. :-D
I think all we can do is accept the reality, go and most likely play a clean and fair game at LAN and be happy that we have guys that tries to prevent cheating and the like on the net.
And with that I would like to say thanks from the whole community to all serious and just cheatbusters and admins, be it in the future or the past.
And that means not nakanakasomething(AoW cc5 dude) which was a cheating CB admin in the past. LoL.
Im out, sleep tight.
there is a big difference when compainrg "LANproofed and skilled on LAN" to "unstoppable online"
still most of players notice cheats only when an enemy has set aimfov to 360 and autoaim 1.
like in a keNta's or gnajda's case. most of the ppl didnt even see many weird actions (except few very obvious games)
and weird how ppl doesnt rly know is it cheat or not ( slajdan's case )
and too many ppl are paranoia
online only -tiimi!
it isn't hard to figure out who's usin hax and who's not.
I dont mean it happens everytime... but it happens quite a lot
stable means not with mix
duck and cover,duck and cover!!!!!!
DUCK AND COVER!!!!!!!!!
TO FIGHT CHEATERS DUCK AND COVER!!!
DUCK AND COVER!!!!!!
a fist of flyies that's it!
you will take a bit of time to understand this.. don't waste your time, there is nothing to understand!!
but about naga and butchji i never even thought they cheat.
I think it should work...but maybe now is too late..who knows... :<?