All online FPS games begin the same way, by spawning. From Quake to RTCW to CoD there is that same common element, a fundamental and obviously unavoidable feature of the genre. Of course the spawn systems differ; in fact I was careful to choose examples that showcased the three main different spawn implementations that we see in competitive games regularly.
What spawning often comes down to is RNG (random number generation), a term that those fond of MMORPGs are more likely to be familiar with than the casual FPS player. RNG is not dismissible, there is not an alternative, yet it poses quite the dilemma for the competitive gamer. Surely the most skilled game would be one that is least reliant on RNG, there are no coin flips in Chess, nobody rolls a dice in Football[1], you'd rather the fate of the game be entirely in the hands of the players without an uncontrollable random number influencing the outcome.
Quake as a traditional deathmatch game throws both players into the arena in completely random spawns. This can be rather devastating, on some maps getting a bad spawn can net your opponent mega, a stack of armor and weaponry uncontested. However much lead you may have though it is likely the control will go back and forth in the course of the map and as such the initial spawns do not cause that much issue, although they can be rather demotivating. Further respawns in Quake are rather predictable. Both players will know roughly where the next spawn will be judging by where the frag was made and therefore the respawns can be controlled. This makes for a fair and balanced gameplay mechanic which does not ruin games.
CoD is pretty much the polar opposite of a traditional deathmatch game, on the surface the Search & Destroy gametype seems to make spawns completely non-random and irrelevant but this isn't quite true. There are typically many individual spawnpoints in a teams spawn in S&D games and where each player spawns is entirely random. It is possible that the majority of your players spawn at the back end of your spawn and that the enemy has the majority of their players spawn at the very forward spawns, or your SMGs spawn at the back meaning they are essentially blocked and unable to rush. In a game like CoD4 things like this hugely influences whether you will win or lose a round and it is hardly a fair system merely because it IS entirely random. CoD/S&D gameplay does offer a decent solution however the actual spawn system is not it; the round system is. Yes their indeed is a spawn dilemma but a bad spawn setup will only affect that one round. Considering a map is played out over 24 rounds the influence this has overall on the game is infinitesimal.
Timing is very important in the both S&D and traditional deathmatch games, but you could certainly argue that it influences the flow of the game much more in objective based games such as ET. There are two very important numbers which competent players will always have in their minds, their own spawntime and the enemy spawntime. These two numbers should influence pretty much every decision a player or team makes during the course of a round.
This creates various problems for those who want to limit how much RNG influences gameplay. The spawntimes are random which means it is entirely possible to get "good" or advantageous spawntimes as well as obviously "bad"/disadvantageous spawntimes. This problem can be over-dramatized; I do not believe that this makes attacking impossible, but in particularly unlucky cases on certain stages it can render 2 of your 3 attacking spawns almost useless. The argument could be made then that it requires more teamwork or more skill to work around and use this to your advantage but I disagree. In the current 5on5 metagame completing a stage 1-2 spawns later than you could have can essentially lose you the map.
This leads us on to a second issue that the spawntimes randomly generated by the server at the beginning of the round are fixed until the end of the round. The standard 20/30 spawntime means that the pattern never changes; the entire round is played out with the same time between spawns repeated every minute. This not only means that a "bad" spawntime sticks with you until the end of the round but also on a general level only makes the round more stale and repetitive. Innovation is something we are starting to see far less of in ET and the move to 5on5 has only exacerbated things. 5on5 is definitely here to stay by this point, so where should we look to bring back that creativity, that flair... are there things we can change to spice up the meta-game and perhaps add some more variety?
I do have some ideas about the answer to this question but I've noticed that this piece is getting rather long and to expand adequately/finish my original plan for the column would require almost doubling the current length. So instead I shall leave it up to discussion for now and hopefully follow it up on a later date. I believe that we should look at alternatives to try and prevent static, repetitive spawntimes stagnating the game. Bear in mind that for any chance of adoption a new system or changes would need to be reasonably subtle but I am also interested in hearing more radical approaches to this aswell =o)
[1] I accept that both Football and Chess rely on random (well for the pedants: pseudo-random) methods to decide who plays which colour or who gets kick-off, but these are not features of actual gameplay.
What spawning often comes down to is RNG (random number generation), a term that those fond of MMORPGs are more likely to be familiar with than the casual FPS player. RNG is not dismissible, there is not an alternative, yet it poses quite the dilemma for the competitive gamer. Surely the most skilled game would be one that is least reliant on RNG, there are no coin flips in Chess, nobody rolls a dice in Football[1], you'd rather the fate of the game be entirely in the hands of the players without an uncontrollable random number influencing the outcome.
Quake as a traditional deathmatch game throws both players into the arena in completely random spawns. This can be rather devastating, on some maps getting a bad spawn can net your opponent mega, a stack of armor and weaponry uncontested. However much lead you may have though it is likely the control will go back and forth in the course of the map and as such the initial spawns do not cause that much issue, although they can be rather demotivating. Further respawns in Quake are rather predictable. Both players will know roughly where the next spawn will be judging by where the frag was made and therefore the respawns can be controlled. This makes for a fair and balanced gameplay mechanic which does not ruin games.
CoD is pretty much the polar opposite of a traditional deathmatch game, on the surface the Search & Destroy gametype seems to make spawns completely non-random and irrelevant but this isn't quite true. There are typically many individual spawnpoints in a teams spawn in S&D games and where each player spawns is entirely random. It is possible that the majority of your players spawn at the back end of your spawn and that the enemy has the majority of their players spawn at the very forward spawns, or your SMGs spawn at the back meaning they are essentially blocked and unable to rush. In a game like CoD4 things like this hugely influences whether you will win or lose a round and it is hardly a fair system merely because it IS entirely random. CoD/S&D gameplay does offer a decent solution however the actual spawn system is not it; the round system is. Yes their indeed is a spawn dilemma but a bad spawn setup will only affect that one round. Considering a map is played out over 24 rounds the influence this has overall on the game is infinitesimal.
Timing is very important in the both S&D and traditional deathmatch games, but you could certainly argue that it influences the flow of the game much more in objective based games such as ET. There are two very important numbers which competent players will always have in their minds, their own spawntime and the enemy spawntime. These two numbers should influence pretty much every decision a player or team makes during the course of a round.
This creates various problems for those who want to limit how much RNG influences gameplay. The spawntimes are random which means it is entirely possible to get "good" or advantageous spawntimes as well as obviously "bad"/disadvantageous spawntimes. This problem can be over-dramatized; I do not believe that this makes attacking impossible, but in particularly unlucky cases on certain stages it can render 2 of your 3 attacking spawns almost useless. The argument could be made then that it requires more teamwork or more skill to work around and use this to your advantage but I disagree. In the current 5on5 metagame completing a stage 1-2 spawns later than you could have can essentially lose you the map.
This leads us on to a second issue that the spawntimes randomly generated by the server at the beginning of the round are fixed until the end of the round. The standard 20/30 spawntime means that the pattern never changes; the entire round is played out with the same time between spawns repeated every minute. This not only means that a "bad" spawntime sticks with you until the end of the round but also on a general level only makes the round more stale and repetitive. Innovation is something we are starting to see far less of in ET and the move to 5on5 has only exacerbated things. 5on5 is definitely here to stay by this point, so where should we look to bring back that creativity, that flair... are there things we can change to spice up the meta-game and perhaps add some more variety?
I do have some ideas about the answer to this question but I've noticed that this piece is getting rather long and to expand adequately/finish my original plan for the column would require almost doubling the current length. So instead I shall leave it up to discussion for now and hopefully follow it up on a later date. I believe that we should look at alternatives to try and prevent static, repetitive spawntimes stagnating the game. Bear in mind that for any chance of adoption a new system or changes would need to be reasonably subtle but I am also interested in hearing more radical approaches to this aswell =o)
[1] I accept that both Football and Chess rely on random (well for the pedants: pseudo-random) methods to decide who plays which colour or who gets kick-off, but these are not features of actual gameplay.
e: maybe supply spawn time for axis should be changed when allies get truck.
maybe 25 or 20, cause all that happens at this point in the game is a spawn lock down by allies. Why do you think frost isnt so predictable?
np for ETPro!
bind x timerset 18
autoexec_goldrush
bind x timerset 20
etc so wont work :p
btw: what would you do to make this "unfair system" better/fairer?
I posted an idea in a comment earlier in some other thread, it basically consisted of leaving out the RNG entirely and letting each team choose the time of their first spawn (ofc, within the 20/30/whatever). That way you're not left to chance, and another element of tactics is introduced, both for attacking and defending.
However, if a team is able to guess the initial strategy of the opposite team, it may be too much of an advantage. But then, atleast, it's your own fault!
The idea is to enable players to use and even try to acheive the so called "bad" or "good" spawn time patterns consciously, making it a matter of skill and not a dice roll.
I'm sure some matches it would be entertaining, but I think it would still cause the same problems for the other x%.
Wow, two people on CF agreeing with each other!
Give every player their own spawntime, in that case it can be quite nice or very bad.
+1 spawntimes sollen so bleiben
aber stimmt, ich bin mit den bisherigen ganz glücklich ^^
And the change of 1 second isn't enough to really change the gameplay of a map. Simple.
It would also make keeping track of enemy spawns a little harder, but that would only be a good thing.
For the sake of this argument lets say the best spawntime for a good game is when allied spawn 10 seconds after axis spawned.Spawntime would get fixed at 8-12 seconds after axis spawn. This way the window of losing a spawn to attack is smaller and you never have a bad spawn. It would make the game less random, and alot more kind on practice.
If this wouldn't work, fixed spawntimes without deviations. People tend to get spawntimes pretty fast anyway.
Keep the current spawntimes because 20/30 is too fucking perfect to mess with
Define what is a good/bad axis-allied spawntime couple.
Define a range of acceptable allied spawntime for a give axis spawntime. (or the opposite) (or both)
Get a coder that could create a script that randomise the spawntimes within those ranges
Add to ET
profit
**keeping in mind that on some stages a previously good spawntime can become disavantaging due to the time needed to travel from the spawn to the action
2. Find a meme
3. Use it on some other website
4. ????
5. Profit
i know in 1.6 every spawn is random however in css there is a rotation so sometimes you can pick that rotation.. is it good? i don't know (don't play css)
then you also have the option of throwing flashes to retard the enemy if they do rush, so there are ways around it and i wouldn't say it's the be all and end all.
additionally i would say as CT in 1.6 you can get to a defensive position with any spawn no problems so less impact there...
It is merely pseudo-random also, which means that it is in theory controllable.
obviously this does allow the conundrum of having disadvantage spawn times again, but as said previously likelihood of being spawn camped for at least 2 spawns would be minimal.
allowing the allies to take some control of the map further down...
edit: but if the spawns change, then saying you're spawning on 00 20 40 and enemy is 00 30, if it is 32 then axis could have to wait till 02 to get a new spawn meaning they are spawnless for 58 seconds. or allies could get a spawn at 40 and then get flag and spawn at 34... easy cvop/uni grab on an axis 58second spawn... game over!
which would be a heaps more 'disadvantage' specially for defense.
at the time I was told that it's hard to do and I was mostly ignored, maybe that could be tested now? or you can ignore me again
or maybe you wouldn't
how can you disable something just because you don't use it? If everyone used a spawntimer there won't be an advantage either, its your loss.
how can you disable something just because you don't use can't do it? If everyone used a spawntimer could do the jump there won't be an advantage either, its your loss.
not everyone can jump on wall, requires trickjumping skills.
if they disallow jumping, it means they do not want to promote trickjumping as a method of pushing attacks through.
what? that would be new for me.
only scripts are disallowed, if someone is able to do a jump on his own, he is free to use it (even though i consider it fucking annoying).
i remember them disabling the supply main jump for a short period of time by adding some random hidden item in front of the rock but it seems like they changed it back already.
same statement..
I think spawntimes are fine, kot wrote below a nice statement which is completly true & that's basically it
nah I'm not, but I spam the script all the time cos there's even people that keep asking "WHATS THE SPAWNTIME ANYONE?" after like 10 mins of the map and after I spam it for 50 times
so the spawn will always be different = less spawnkills
i.e some special bind which the team can use once a map like:
/spawndelay 1-5
so instead of spawning the next time in 20 seconds they'll do it in 20+(1-5) and then again 20 each spawn
everything explodes 1 sec too early
trolled hard
Also pushing out wouldnt be much of a problem because of the risk - to get full 15 seconds till ur own ST, or take the risk - and p00n nabs
maybe that would be the point of it?
there's a perfectly good reason why the spawntimes are different, if they're would be the same the defending team would probably never lose
I know my way around english, don't need a proofreader thx, especially one that doesn't know how to spell "replier"
where exactly did i use the word "replier" (although i'm not even sure whether that word exists, i'd rather use "responder/ent"...)?
- gibbing has nothing to do with this discussion
- everyone would be able to calculate spawntimes because of ET spawntimer
Stop posting.
All I know something needs to be changed and while your at it reintroduce 6on6 as well.
<reserved for more>
Means if axis have a spawntime by 30 seconds every time they spawn it is random if the next spawn is in 33s, 32s, 31s, 30s, 29s, 28s or 27s. And again at the next spawn, and again...
Same for allies: 20 seconds and next in 18s, 19s, 20s, 21s, 22s.
This makes spawnkill alot harder and gives allies better opportunities to attack if the have a bad timing at the start.
Dont know if it is even possible to implement to et but yea just thoughts :)
he says no
spawntime increases as soon as a team is more skilled / experienced than the
opponent.
like, team A having blabla total experience, spawntime increases by 1 or 2 secs.
team B keeps the old spawntime.
or so
but whining about spawntimes .. decades after the spawntime has been introduced is just
bla
the weaker team won't have decreasing spawntimes.
supply first stage for exsample.. axis. if they increase xp n stuff fast, their spawntime would
increase from 30 to 40 seconds or 30 to 35 or so..
of if the weak allies aren't standing a chance, from 20 down to 15 or 17 ..
and ofcourse not at every map stage.
THIS would make the game unpredictable and again very open.
some people whined about the 5on5 game and it's predictability.. etc pp.
most were concerned about the map spawntimes in 5on5.
imagine what would happen, if the better teams does some intended failattacks & let them kill & THEN roll with 1 spawn through the whole map, because the axis got a really long respawntime... in my eyes is the idea of spawntime depending on xp bullshit
Each map has atm two attacks(allied), which gets at sometime boring because you can't get a stage done. But isn't it everytime a matter of learning from your mistakes? next time you keep in mind how you failed last time, so you try different things. You keep positions, routes etc of the enemy aswell in mind. Same for the defenders.
Imo changing spawntimes (allied or axis) will create a big chaos and way more camp camp camp. Not improving anything.
Decreasing the amount of spam nades will make these spawntime problems less frustrating i guess
awesome english!
very hard solution, i know
so no, not only in oc 6th division do people get spawntimes wrong.
Personally i think more chaos maps makes it more fun :) cause you never can say who is gonna win it example Reactor Chaos map nr 1 just love it if you got some kind of teamplay you cna do good else the lucky basterd will win it.
it makes the game more alive imo.
But for ET there are many things that cna be changed on many lvl admins cups rules game itself etc... the biggest problem is the will of getting it done that is missing.
really no effort to make this more intresting over the whole round
example (gonna use impact/dignitas)
when impact play allies, they spawn 5 seconds after axis
when dignitas play allies, they spawn 5 seconds after axis too
this way it's fair right? no more "omg they got lucky spawntime" because you got it too!
But as I mentioned the only problem here is that in the second round the other team can calculate the spawntime. To make it fair you would have to give spawntime at the start or do as I suggested in my previous comment :P
round starts
1 second later
foSt: they spawn at 12
I actually remember that :D
but come on, nobody has shown better LAN performance than he did
tho, IF LUA can do configstrings, i dont see any problems achieving this
So both teams have 1 round a "good" spawntime and a "bad" one?
Assuming you get rid of the random number, the map winner should be the most skilled team, according to you spawntimes define the winner/loser of the map :s
My point however is that it will also increase a chance for double fullholds if the spawn is fucked up :)
Coming back to my main point, what people are referring to as "bad" spawntimes aren't really spawntimes that make it harder for a better team to attack and, as a result, lose a map they would've won otherwise. These spawntimes only make the skill difference more obvious. Let me explain why:
An example of what one would usually call a bad spawntime is 40/20/00 for allies and 35/05 for axis. In such case axis players can just push out, rape allies spawning at 40, selfkill, then move out quickly again killing those who survived and spawnrape at 20 once again. They have to selfkill at 05 so there's only one allied spawn that can safely leave their spawn, right? Bear in mind that for this to be successful, allies who spawn at 00 need to be killed in the first place, otherwise axis simply can't push out to spawnrape at 40.
Well, let's look at the same scenario from another perspective. Allies spawning at 20 are pushing out just when the axis are spawning, killing some of them and then selfkilling. As a result, 1 or 2 axis players are full and the entire allied team has just spawned. More than that, they will be spawning again before the next axis spawn! And I thought it was a "bad" spawntime for them?
As you can see, both teams can get the advantage by making use of the spawntimes. The team that does gain that advantage is the better team. Sure, spawntimes like that can make the game even easier for the better team and instead of setting up a proper defence they'll just go out and spawnrape. However, a "bad" spawntime won't make a skilled team lose a map against inferior players.
One more thing to all those suggesting that teams should spawn every 29 seconds or 30 +/- 1 or 2 seconds etc. in order to make spawnkilling more difficult. You seem to be forgetting that keeping track of your enemies' spawntime is just as important in the offence as it is in defence - spawnrape is an essential part of the attack on plenty of maps. I can't really see how making the game more difficult for everyone could do any good when most of the players are already struggling to grasp the basic concepts.
!!! NEW :XD !!!
Summary:
- You can only abuse "bad" spawntimes and spawnrape if your team is better anyway.
- "Bad" spawntimes can be turned to an advantage by either of the teams, if they're good enough.
- In an evenly matched game you are unable to abuse them all game long
Allies spawning at 20, pushing out when axis are spawning (35) (they got 15 sec to set up to spawnkill). Spawnshield is 4 sec right? this means they got 1 sec to kill axis and then also selfkill.
Just trying to state that "bad" spawntimes can actually ruin the map/round for teams who are the same skill
E: also 'wasting 15 sec' to set up a spawnkilling sounds weird to me :<
edit:
if I got
and you're not really wasting 15 secs, getting out of your own spawn to a place where you could do anything useful takes some time anyway
let me say it in my own words:
allies spawning at 20 is the only situation when the allies are able to make their way to the axis spawn (because axis arent spawnkilling nor are they spawning), then give 1-2 axis spawning at 05 a full spawn. after taking out 1-2 axis on a full spawn, the allies can selfkill, meaning that they will spawn 00, which is still 25 s until next axis spawn at 35. in those 25 s the allies have their big chance because of the 5 vs 3-4 situation.
or did I get you wrong?
In this evenly matched game the axis team will know that there are allies alive and turtle it out for that particular spawn before starting the rape all over again. Even if allies managed to kill one or maybe even a lucky two guys I would still give the axis a 50% chance of holding off long enough with 4 people before their next spawn. This window is just too small and it might succeed after lets say 5 attempts but this still means you are down 5 whole minutes.
e: I was thinking in 6on6 mode but I would figure 3vs5 would still give similar odds. Then again 5on5 makes these spawnpoints even more flawed because it's much harder letting one guy to free roam and cause chaos to the other team during that window of opportunity.
I don't think that it's possible for 1 team to spawnrape the other team constantly in an evenly matched game due to "bad" spawntimes. Of course, it might happen once or twice because of some mistakes, but mistakes are generally the reason why maps don't end up in a draw all the time. Players will try to force those mistakes and spawnkill when the timing is good for them. However, if they manage to do that all game, there's no way the teams are even.
we were playing a 3on3, first map goldrush, attack was relatively fast, ended the map in 6 mins, we held tank for like all those 6 mins and fullheld
second map adlernest, we fullheld the map and set a time of around 3 and a half mins
now you'd guess that we were a better team right? we outaimed them easily on both maps without teamplay
then they asked for a 3rd map and we decided to go for it since almost no one was searching for a 3on3, so supply was called
we started as allies and as we came they immediately pushed out, we killed them and as we came in they already spawned on us, we got killed/selfkilled and attacked just to find them fully pushed out, they hold us a bit in the middle, we kill them and get in to find them spawned again, our spawntime would always be in 2-3-4 sec when we would get there because they held us before we killed them or they selfkilled...and that pattern kinda repeated for 7 mins until we got flag, it wasn't always the same thing but the result was the same, they held us long enough with their spawntime to prevent us from attacking properly
of course we fullheld it on flag
now, in that case their spawntime was really bad for us, even when we outaimed them and killed them they still managed to spawn again, kill some of us and then immediately push, us being a "better" team(they weren't low+ to make it such a huge difference) did not help there, their spawntime was just too much to their advantage
edit: I'm one of those that favour the odd number spawntime, I didn't mean that it would only lower the amount of spawnkill, it would also change the way you can now push for every spawn, when the spawntime changes in this way you can't have the same pattern of aggressive push every time
and yes, spawnkilling is essential, but this way it couldn't happen so often and maybe not depends on, sometimes, one lucky shot
not only I it seems
Now u decide to ignore my comment, despite my rather big knowledge of how 3o3 should be played... Ofc you couldnt be aware of that, however u decided to take such actions basing on yesterdays conversation and your assumptions... Assumptions are tools of ego ppl, as they dare to thing about something without decent facts...
got it? :-)
with risk, you can win, or you can fail/loose :p
but there is such a thing as a "bad spawntime" which can be seen sometimes even when one team is better
Imagine a fictional map - a completely flat area, with a flag. Maybe a few walls to provide cover &c. Axis spawn at the flag, allies spawn at a position where it takes them 18 seconds to run to the flag. Spawntimes are 20/30.
If Axis spawn 3 seconds before allies on this map (00, 30 vs 57, 37, 07), allies get a good attack on their 57 spawn (a full 27 seconds to kill the axis and get the flag, plus the option to selfkill and respawn at 37), a bad attack at 37 (axis are pushing out to kill just after the allies have lost their spawnshield, then have a fresh spawn before allies can get near the flag), and a terrible attack at 17 (even if all the axis are dead, they can't get to the flag before the axis respawn, so get hit by both the pushout and a full respawn).
If Axis spawn 3 seconds after allies on this map (00, 30 vs 43, 23, 03), allies get a bad attack on their 43 (axis pushout followed by fresh spawn before they can get to the flag), a good attack at 23 (axis should be wounded from the 43 attack, and allies can push to flag before axis respawn), and a good attack at 03 (axis don't have time to get a good spawnkill before their respawn, allies get a full 30 seconds to attack, plus the option to respawn at 43).
The second option is obviously far easier to attack than the first - you get two 'viable' attacking spawns per minute instead of one, plus the times themselves are actually better.
It's a simplified case, but it actually fits surprisingly well to certain stages on some maps - most notably, supply first stage.
EDIT: Actually, I think I went the wrong way with all the numbers (counted up, not down - oops!), the logic still holds though. Fixed!
first situation, allies supply first spawn (only 1 good spawn):
as soon as the axis field ops has understood which allies spawn could get dangerous to the axis team, he just sets an arti at the main road entrance.
second situation, same scenario (though 2 good spawns):
as soon as the axis field ops has understood which allies spawn could get dangerous to the axis team, he just sets an arti at the main road entrance and tells someone of his teammates to switch to field ops so that both "dangerous" spawns are covered by artillery.
so is the unneccessarity of the fops in 5v5 perhaps overrated?
But at least surely you haven't seen a spawn less than 10secs for axis :D !
(supply)
"GUYS WE JUST SPAWNED AND THEY SPAWN IN 8 SECONDS LETS JUST CAMP FLAG FOR 8 SECONDS." even with nades at 01 its hard to kill guys hugging the flag and camping up
I totally understand what you wrote and logic dictates that you are right but this isnt how i experienced 5vs5. Every single 5vs5 game somebody was whining about the spawntimes, something which rarely happened in 6vs6. Games vs equally skilled clans ended up with the team with the best spawntime winning.
But you think that 'nothing changes' if you use the etprotimer? Are you ignoring the point of this column all together, which is that RNG spawntimers can cause games to be heavily in favour of a side and also make that match very repetitive.
I will use supply first stage as an example since the map is played so much and it will probably be the easiest for people to recognize. If axis get spawntimes which are to their likings like in the example Kot used they can pretty much fullhold at the flag without breaking a sweat but this doesn't mean the axis are so much better than the allied side.
Although less noticeable due to defending being easier than attacking this could also work in favour of the allied side when the axis are unable to get in a push and recover their defense. It's hard to explain but you can ''feel'' how holding the allied team is so much easier or ''feel'' how attacking is working out so much better than usual. Ofcourse this factor is completely eliminated when one team is so much better than the other.
just imagine how much tax you could do :>
(didnt read the text at all)
ET = full of pussys who couldnt handle spam
+ RTCW respawn system being broken
assholes :'(
Would make the defenses much harder and less repetitive.
if i were to change something maybe 2x SW / map since rounds are so fast these days
ET will always remain super repetitive no matter which spawntimes, unless u do some weird and radical changes to the system which seems like a huge gamble
one map in CoD lasts at least 30 minutes, and a CS-map could last from 30 minutes up to 60...
that's one point why the coverage of ET might be that bad, because the matches are too fast over
In the short term, though, it's really hard to get people to accept new big maps. As a mapmaker the single comment you hear the most is "it's too big". Even if it's half the size of adlernest.
but by all means bring more maps like radar gold bremen if thats what he ment
Furthermore I do not really agree with kot to 100% since this game is SW Objective and concidering the way the maps are set up.
This is sort of an answer to your last point - this adds variety to each round - if people could choose their spawns then you would have players in overwatch / forward positions all the time.
Only depending on your own / enemies strategy. It is possible to completely nullify any spawn time advantage if you change your strategy depending on it - if you have the same strategy no matter what how 'disadvantageous' your enemies spawn time is then this is what will lose you a stage / map / game.
Again, if you arrange your attacks by spawns, then yes this will be a problem. But only because you make yourself predictable. Some of the best players and teams risk fulls because it is advantageous - you aren't really saying that they are useless attacking spawns, they just give more risk then normal and would generally setup a good attack on the next spawn. For teams with no real depth it strategy or team positioning they will seemingly have 'good stage' on certain spawn times - the reason for this is obvious.
Spawn time changes during a round would be a huge problem, and add more randomness then what you have brought up so far. to spice up the game spawn times are probably one of the last things that need changing, some simple implementation (of which was originally omitted from ET) would spice things up nicely. In RtCW some of the biggest moments in the games history have come over simplistic situations like a Flag grab, something which ET has removed entirely from its gameplay.
For instance if the Flag on Braun & Frost were still there, given that both are 20 second allied spawns and fairly easily defended, teams could adapt different playstyles on defence and it could add a bit more flavor (given frost especially is so easy to attack). Covert is a dead class, and only ever really seen when the skill differences of the teams are big, except perhaps on Goldrush so CPs are generally safe.. and when they are blown another Eng is needed and this just slows down the game rather than keeping it free flowing.
ET is a lot like golf, it is really enjoyable to play but watching it, unless you are an enthusiast or the game is really evenly matched, its dire due to it being quite predictable - the main thing that would change this is team activity - I doubt many if any teams work on strategy & team positioning anymore or have done since 5on5 change. Most overload medics stages and rely on individuals (although this can bring the 'spice' that ET specs want, as most only care about individuals)
Strategy in ET is superficial. That's where ingame leading and general gamesense kick in.
Agree on the flagpart though.
:SD:FDS
it would be nice to have a raddom plus or minus secs from 1 to 3 secs..for every spwntime. So the actually spwntime is not predicable at all.
ps. i know a lot of you said that.
Mainly skilled players dont like to make the game more random.....see kot etc.
Med players like the game to be more random........see me, kot with disable the cheats etc. :P
:)
ps. next topic for articles also: "Why Walle wants to be like wWallie?"
Because ET is stopwatch we should make both round with the same spawntimes.
So you cant say the other team is "lucky".
2) Anyone with a bit of game-sense will find out what your spawn is after 1 attack, either by looking at the console or having "spots", example it takes them 4 seconds to appear on supply first stage so you look at your spawn and do -4 seconds and you got their spawntime, simple stuff.
3) If you attacked first on the first map, you're going to defend first on the second map so either way, both teams will have this "spawntime knowing advantage for 1 map"
In my eyes it seems much more fair if it were implemented than the current spawntime system.
I agree but I guess there isn't a perfect solution then. I liked the idea of constantly changing situations but it would probably require to much work finding out what spawntimes would work best and on what map.
Someone mentioned it before but you could make it a little bit more difficult by keeping the same gaps but changing the actual times.
5 - 25 - 45 > 15 - 35 - 55
and
30 - 60 > 40 - 10
+666
And this idea is megas good
O____________________O
nigger.
spawn just directly after u were killed ;$
You forgot mentioning that spawtime advantages change when the current objective changes.
While a certain spawtime might be a disadvantage while going for the flag @ supply, it might just be an advantage when trying to plant the Depot Gate.
But well, Nonix's idea bassically solves the problem I think.
always wandered if it was possible to change the cod4 spawning system to be like 1.6 where you get the same spawns every 4 rounds or whatever though.