‘Enemy Territory has been blessed with an array of talented individuals, whether it be feruS, mystic, mAus or umm I don’t know... Night’. But why are these players superior to the rest of us, could it simply be greater hand eye coordination and/or a sharp mind? Another possible explanation is environment; everyone plays in a different environment. You get some players that are lucky enough to have an amazing setup with a pc that looks like it’s from the year 3000, on the other hand you get some players that play on a wooden pc in their shed and have the worse connection known to man, meaning they are about as hittable as Mohammed Ali on ice. Or it could just be down to practice, after all ‘practice makes perfect’.
Like in all walks of life, raw ability is a major factor. Some people just have better hand eye coordination, meaning they can get used to sensitivity quicker and track enemies with more precision and accuracy. On the other hand players like Night have the ability to think quickly and make important decisions in seconds. However experience is a massive factor that determines how smart a player is.
Some players have the luxury of playing on the top of a range pc with an insanely good connection, meaning they already have an advantage over other players. Likewise there are sure to be players out there playing on a 10 year old laptop using a single sheet of A4 for a mouse pad, a ballpoint mouse and a keyboard with sticky keys. It’s illogical to think that someone using this outdated equipment reaching only 25 fps isn’t at a serious disadvantage to someone with top range gear. Although some players have such a bad connection they are deemed impossible to hit, and in an fps it’s kind of important to be able to hit people with bullets.
Practice and ability go hand in hand, you can train as much as you like, but at the end of the day a midget isn’t going to play in the NBA. Although that is an extreme example, someone could have immense hand eye coordination but they aren’t going to beat someone that has played the game for years, when they have only played for a few days. Experience is vital for decision making and coping with pressure and experience only comes with practice, an example of this is UK rifle Koop who was abysmal in his first performance in NC with team UK, but this NC was vital to their success.
Another very important factor is the team surrounding the player, some players are great in one team but simply do not fit in others, for example Night wouldn’t be able to get away with half the stuff he does playing with Jaymoders, as they wouldn’t be covering him, also he would have to sacrifice many elements of his game to make up for other shortcomings in the team. To summarise; each of these categories tie hand in hand, because without each of these a player isn’t going to become great, without practice they won’t be able to utilise their ability and without a decent setup and connection, they will be disadvantaged to their counterparts.
What do you think determines a players skill?
ps: Apologies for any mistakes
Enjoying vacation with friends actually.
You play alot of games, always on crossfire, always on irc, always playing.
e: same for you, you should stop caring so much its not your life ...
stop caring man it's not your life.
you should get out of your house sometimes and do something with your life
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
you are saying people with experience, unhitability, turbo pc's and great aiming talent have an advantage
Keep it up :o)
.. for my enjoyment <3
There is no "formula" for a great player. Theres so many different style great players, who can approach the game totally differently.
Besides, even trying to describe good play in detail is incredibly hard in a game like ET 6on6.
People constantly oversimplify the game by saying and thinking some plays are bad without considering that with current metagame etc, some weird moves can actually be very efficient! People often call these plays "dumb". For example: often when youre expected to selfkill out but dont, its pretty much instantly classified as dumb from the opponents when you dont. That is not the case always, its metagame considerations like opponent 100% expecting a selfkill that add to the goodness of a move when you decide not to. Although that is only a small part of it..
I feel ET is one of those games that is way way more feel based than logic, just because theres too much variables to consider in many spots. When you've played a similar spot 10000 times, you kinda have it in your core what yields out the best outcome and you automaticly [flag=nike] just do it.
Anyway more to the point, some talented and experienced players can spot other good players "easily" by playing with them, but cant probably explain why the player x is so good in great detail.
I do think this is pretty interesting topic, but you stay at extremely basic level. I can probably answer all your points with simple "yes ofc".
Also I'm extremely tired, so my post might not make too much sense! :D
Full selfkills are always bad, easy to breach a defense when noone is stopping you from getting past chokepoints. Which is why I rarely selfkill on defense, even if I take fulls all the time.
You're right, it's not as black and white as I made it sound, but when you know your opponent is waiting for you to selfkill, you can't just all go and selfkill without getting a few kills or dropping enough nades. A lot of players seem to always push out and selfkill, no matter what the situation. In my opinion, they fail to adapt to the game at that point. Maybe it's just me, but I've seen (and played) so many games where stages got lost because of people pushing out, just because it's a habbit.
id say, the more unique ur style is, the more chances u have of surprising ur enemy, the game is old and players (no need to be
aim with a litle drop of game sense to get you to the place on the map where u can flank the opposite team, giving a 3-4second window for your team or yourself do continue to the next/current obj, super natural aim is not what im talking about, all it takes is for a few guys to start turning back from their position, wich will open up a weak spot in the defenses for a short amount of time.
teamplay can open this window of opportunity aswell, play it smart dmg the enemy, make them "fall back" reload re-heal, will give you another 3-4second window.
but most teams / players dont know how to force a selfkil, or force a retreat, all they see in the game is "wait for spawn" and "push together" interpreted the wrong way from watching a game on ettv.
being able to handle all sorts of weapons, for example switching to panzer hiting and gibing 2players on full
or throwing out a strike, no need to kill anyone there, a strike when its out, will make the enemy stop in its tracks or even fall back for atleast 3-5seconds
its all about how you use this window of opportunity, opend by an individual or forced by the team, what makes a player good, is his contribution towards his team,not his aim, (true, there are a few moments during the game whre an aimer can clear the path for you but a good aimer without the ability to comprehend the game and support you, is a guard dog, in a size of a cat ) due to respawns, its a tactical game.
knowing when to push, when to be aggressive, when to be defensive, even pushing out on full, stoping the attacking team/a few players for 2-3 seconds and getting urself on full without killing anyone, may save the game...
so shortly, what makes a player good? in my opinion the ability to be at the right place, at the right time.
in general a good player for me, would be a player who can put his gamestyle to play/work vs all sorts of diff oppo
also good support / teamplay from your teammates, playing with the right ppl, is what wins the games.
what could butchji/maus/mystic/azatej/seareal/sqzz do vs a 2nd div team, playing in a 4th div team?
there is way 2much things to take into consideration what makes a good player,
imo the aim is a common "weapon" we all share, so by all logics, id say the aim is the most important factor of any individual player.
items/powerups mostly win fights
cba to talk about rockets and other spam/prefire bullshit
and you should know, quake was out before et, i myself was a quake player before i started playing rtcw and then et.
outsmarted on a map ofc, but outaimed, not sure
its like who stings more, a bee or a wasp....
u missed it by far
No matter what fps game you play, if you're good, you will have that basic decent/good aim in a different fps game. But to become truely great you need to have experience in that particular game. So it's rather hard to compare.
No right answer here, it's like comparing the stamina of a long distance runner to that off a cyclist.
U always see these "newcomers" that come out with huge aim and shit, but the fact is that they never make it anywhere due being too retarded to understand that noone gives a fuck about their aim since they dont know how to use it properly, they become semi useless for a proper games since a player knowning that its time u play against is more worth than a guy who shoots sick but has no other idea of the game.
main line: be useful for ur team, play to win, noone cares about individuals headshots or damage, die on full with no ammo if u have to, play for the time, not for damage or headtshots.
Some people however hesitate to go for revives or rush through enemy fire just because they are worried about their stats.
Well another example, like he said well :
It doesn't mean the player went from good "skill" to low "skill". His ability does not fit with the new team, this new team is less skilled, but it doesn't mean the player himself is less "skilled".
and il give you one example, lets say 3on3, i kill all 3 of them and cap the flag... cant see any point in ur logic
a team is skilled if every individual is skilled with skilled i mean knows howto play the game
u cannot have 6noobs in the team who will only play with teamplay and zero aim... i mean ofc u can, but nowhere near any decent skill level.
your example doesn't mean anything, try again.
U said one cannot have skill a team has skill, i said, i kill 3 and take the flag, capisch
no teamplay no skill
a good player should know/be able to adapt to diff teams/gamestyles
ca fucking pisch?
You don't bring anything new here ?
we are all pros.. it's just cuz of the environment and the unluky circumstances that most of us are still nUbs after 9 years ET.
night vs karnaj id say night.. due to his experiance, aimwise idk id say theyr bot the same
Karnaj might triple you once or twice in a game, but Night just makes you lose the game and half the time you have no idea how it happened.
In addition I'd say that a great player has to be able to adapt to various different roles and strategies in the team. Obviously a team should be build so that everyone gets to play in a role they are best in, but you still need to have the understanding of what you are doing as a team and what are the roles of everyone else in each possible situation. If you have that understanding and knowledge, you can always adjust your playing style and positioning depending on the situation.
but there isnt really much to improve by reading a simple "tutorial" on decision making, its ur own to figure/determent what is "right" and "wrong" the bigger improvments in my opinion comes from trying out diff stuff ingame and not sticking to one tactic all the time :P
Activity is indeed very important. But those players that are known to be really good are usually the ones that play very consistent, even when they haven't played that much. I considered myself to be a really great aimer, when I played active and still had my CRT screen. When I switched to an LCD screen and started playing less, I couldn't play nearly as good as before, which ultimatly drove me away from the game. I tried focusing on a supportive role, but sometimes you need to be able to adapt and play agressive when your team needs it. If noone in your team can or wants to adapt, you get overrun.
Players like undead and griim on the other hand, suffer way less from inactivity and are far more consistent than most players. A big part of mAus his strength is also how consistent he is at dishing out damage. So I'd say, being consistent in every aspect of the game makes a truely great player. One small mistake can cost you the game, the best players make the least amount of mistakes.
In a nutshell, to me setup and activity were everything, when something isn't right I start making mistakes. But some of the guys I played with were way less affected by this. Don't think it's a coincidence that those guys were considered the best :)
ppl trying to describe what features a great player have... in a 10 years old game? and the funny part that only 3 guys in this topic mentioned the "correct" anwser... and sereaeasaeall is not of of them, which shouldnt suprise anyone...
quake is so much bettarh
So, what's being said here, goes for most fps or atleast teambased fps games :)
et is useless game.
My point is still valid. Whenever a new game comes out, it's no coIncidence that people who have played on a high level in a different game are able to adapt to the game much faster. You can act like a dick all you want, competitions on a high level in any sport or e-sport have more in common than you like to admit.
If you can't be constructive, just bugger off. I like both ET and QL, and I admit that they major aspects of both games are vastly different, but that doesn't mean competitive play is also vastly different in both games. The difference between ET and CoD is ofcourse a lot smaller.
Ofcourse you are no competition for the absolute top players or even the sub-top in QL without a few years of experience in the game.
both maza and twister dedicated a lot of time and effort to get a bit known in ql community... and their previous experiances with online shooters didnt matter... maybe except of idtech3 knowledge...
also, to catch up with top4, you need to be decent at all aspects of quake + have something thats makes you special... thats why quake is probably the hardest game ever... there are 2 many aspects of gameplay you need get basics of just to get into arena and dont die instantly... movement, timing, map knowledge, raw aim, prediction aim, predicting ur enemy...
I dont say having top level experiance in ET gives you shit in most games... its very usefull in CoD or BF or CS... but then comes ur first Quake duel, and 10 minutes of game simply crush all ur ego... Timing at least 2 items with 25/35, instead of one simple time that wont change during whole round... 9 weaponst with different uses instead of 3.... and many more...
ET is childs play compared to quake
You can only rely on yourself, so a mistake can't be cleaned up by a teammate. But at the same time there are things in ET that are none-existant in QL (duel). Like obj based teamplay, reviving, proper use of classes. But still some aspects are so similar that they help you when you move from one game to another, but we seem to agree on that.
And btw I said this :
"Ofcourse you are no competition for the absolute top players or even the sub-top in QL without a few years of experience in the game."
Great to know there is still an influx of new players who are not scared of a steep learning curve. Something which also plagues Quake :)
by staying on a general level, id like to add the willingness of the player to spent more/less (dependping on talent and ability of learning) time into a game to become a top tier player. many people would have the brain and coordination requirements, but preffering to play for fun and not invest loads of time, which you always have to, nevertheless how talented you are.
sadly nowadays you see some players at the top level, which never would have gotten access into this region years ago :(
this is wrong. i.e CoD
At the end of the day, ET is a competitive game based on teamplay. You only win if your team wins, not if you have 20k dmg and 150hs. I would say that most of the best players are where they are because of the fact that they hate losing. I laugh at people that write comments about losing when it is only a game. That being said, if they are only playing for "fun" then it is completely acceptable and understandable and it is great that they can still enjoy this game. Looking at Anexis for example, there is not one player in that team that can accept defeat, it just doesnt feel right and if things are going wrong, it can become problematic. However, if you look at the recent BFB which Anexis won, we worked extremely hard to eradicate the loss we suffered by Queens/Winfakt to ensure that we won the final 8-0.
Other things that you mentioned are of course major factors in being good/great at ET. mAus has an ability like no other to pick up a mouse and just rape everything in his vicinity, but if you ask him the lack of dedication has meant that he is not near to his skill level in terms of aim which he was at 2-3 years ago. People fail to realise how he has grown as a player since then and improved other sides of his game to make up for the "drop" in his aim.
Personality is something not mentioned in the above which contributes to a better player and team. You have to "fit" in with the rest of your teamates to become a successful team - which is another factor people overlook when it comes to Anexis. We have a strong bond and a great understanding and fortunately enjoy each other's presence.
Someone can be exceptionally good at one factor, i.e. Aim but lack in others which will undoubtedly hinder their progress and achievements in the game. The best players are the ones that can excel at most if not all of the factors and become an all round player. The aimer's will always be regarded as the best players in the game though because they stand out more. Fortunately Night is one of the exceptions because people understand that he has won everything and pulled off some incredible moments in games which no other play could do. Looking at Anexis; sqzz, squall, mAus all have incredible aims, XyLoS is the best rifle to have played this game but they all have other traits which make them some of the best players to have played this game.
Just like you I need people I have fun with to play active. Something I found when playing with nkNn and when I played for undead in bF to prepare for AEF, the only two times I was actually active in this game. We weren't just online to play ET, we had loads of fun playing the most retarded games together. If people don't click or hold grudges, it doesn't take long for things to fall apart.
I guess you guys got lucky to get some of the best players from different countries together that love playing together. It seems that most of those tight teams are made out of players from the same country. (the fins, ovr, bf, polish guys)
Ultimately, most of your comparisons are inappropriate or irrelevant to the discussion (e.g. 'Night wouldn’t be able to get away with half the stuff he does playing with Jaymoders'). This is irrelevant because Night is not playing Jaymod. If he was he would change his game and, I assume, fair quite well. In addition, you do not really seem interested in coming to a conclusion. You consider all these aspects (computer, practice, skill etc., etc..) from both sides but never in depth. It is not actually the mystics or the Nights of ET that make the game interesting. It is the players that are great and skilled that spark interest (e.g. saintt), and those that buck the trend. For example, those who compete at a high level despite a woeful computer and internet connection (CrozZ springs to mind).
As far as skill is concerned, twidi is right to link Mztik's article. Decision making seems to the defining factor as far as I am concerned; lots of players with mediocre aim make skilled players; and what differentiates players with great aim is ultimately their decision making. lettu's point about the meta-game is very important in this sense. Skilled players think of the bigger picture; unskilled players are unskilled because their thinking, not their attributes within the game itself (e.g. aim or timing), is narrower.
this is not even true man , you havent even seen for example nate robinson or earl boykins playing i guess , height does not matter it takes heart and training to make it bro , same for ET , but certain thing is overplaying is never good (example Peeter and still shit) . and playing against better players than yourself helps alot .
There are many factors that effect how a great player is made, unfortunately people look at the stats on GTV and the aim of people and consider them to be 'raping'.
Put it this way, while playing with UK in NC everyone in the team played their part to the success but I think we would not of won without someone like Griim in the team, simply because he was the quiet one, reviving, supporting. Sadly these players don't get any accolades on GTV therefore are overlooked by people checking stats.
Anyone can be near the top it just takes practice, and personally I think a combination of:
- Good Comms
- Good Gamesense
Both of these things can be developed. If you have these things it doesn't matter how you aim, you will automatically put yourself in positions where you have the advantage over your opponent. Think about it, even though mAus had godlike aim, he didn't just go running out into the open shooting everyone, did he? When Night saved games, he was in the position to save it due to him having the sense and understanding of what to do and when to do it.
Experience plays ALOT too, it was true that even though I had the skill I didn't have the experience and ability to deal with the pressure in my NC debut, however after I gained this necessary experience and ability I would like to think I played well this NC just gone.
Attached to this I think its necessary to play with people your own skill, and try to excel them and improve that way, rather than playing with people twice your skill, simply because you don't really learn much that way and more often than not, just get carried, therefore hindering your own progression.
Personality makes you desirable and more of a role model for other players willing to improve. I remember watching or playing games against 'highskillers' when I was just a newb. If I would talk to them I would get ignored, since I wasn't 'high' enough for their ego to acknowledge me. Even in ETTV matches when something funny happens or anything else, the player would just remain quiet and seem miserable over it, rather than just posting a smile ':)'.
This is one reason why I looked up to aCoZz, not only as a rifle but his personality was amazing, he would spam smileys ingame (even in finals) if something funny had happened, or his opponent done a really good shot or nade, he would v56 (Great shot!).
I try to emulate him because he never looked down on other players.
Don't take criticism with too much salt;
If someone says to you on the side that certain parts of your game need improving, then take into consideration what they have said, don't be ignorant, unless they're flaming you and don't think you're the best, because no one is.
I got told that my comms were not as good as they should be, therefore I changed things that allowed me to give better comms, (e.g. switching from PUSH-TO-TALK, to Voice activation, while ingame). I would like to think my comms are a lot better now.
If you're not sure on how to improve, maybe spec your demos and see what you do right, what you do wrong and what can be improved. Or even ask people you play with regularly.
What can you improve to become the best?
He plays well with several types of players, who can easily read other playstyles and adapt quickly to them. Of course good aim has a part in the complete picture, but in comparison to the other qualities a great gamer should have it can be neglected almost completely ... someone with good gamesense, insight and teamwork is much more valuable in a team
E: ye that's good definition of a great player just add the aim part there, or actually you don't to have a great aim, just a great understanding of how spread works
E2: you can't name any can you?