6th player for ingame lead?
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9 Jun 2010, 16:53
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Journals
I just heard rumors that Evo is going to be on vent during AEF so that he can do the in-game leading and heard in other rumors that Krosan had said this would be allowed.
Are you kidding me? That's not 5 vs 5 mate, that's 5 vs 5.5 and in case of a guy like for instance Night it would simply be 5vs6.
Are you kidding me? That's not 5 vs 5 mate, that's 5 vs 5.5 and in case of a guy like for instance Night it would simply be 5vs6.
http://clanbase.ggl.com/rules.php?lid=10449
2) i see it the other way round, i manager can help the team just like in football, if a football team doesn't have a manager the opponent won't whine because they dont have a manager and the opponent do = 12v11
3) At CC7 there were many CoD4 managers with the teams and they also had mentors that were "psychological trainers" that were boosting the player's moral
if you want to push ET into a professional LAN e-sport game like CSS and COD4, why should ET disallow managers while its allowed in cod4?
2. Football is not ET and is played entirely different. You can not compare the two.
3. CoD is not ET and just because it's done in CoD does not mean it's a great idea or that it should also be done in ET. Having mentors and trainers outside of the games and in between rounds to boost moral etc, is fine, but during the game itself it simply has to be those 5 against 5 others.
It also has nothing to do with pushing ET forward as a game for professional Lans. That argument has no grounds whatsoever.
I don't understand how you can not see that it's an unfair advantage. Have you always played with people that can't lead on coms?
I'll tell you this, there are a number of people out there who are great on coms and are great tactical leaders. Night is exceptional in that and I can tell you that if you put him on coms with any team as a 6th guy to do tactical leading during the game, it is a massive advantage to any team.
It's unfair, plain and simple and if this will be allowed on AEF, CC, CB or any other Lan where ET is being played, the guys that allow it are the biggest fucking morons ever.
Perhaps we could just test it sometime first instead of just allowing it suddenly cause somebody came up with it
maybe they do deserve the big salaries after all
e: and how is imitating another game going to transform ET anyway? it isn't
:)
Yeah!
pretty shit and unfair, just because other teams don't have a manager with them?
just don't waste a computer on him and let him use his own laptop :D
+ i think there is nothing wrong with securing your investment up to some level but don't most CS or CoD managers merely keep the moral up and not give to much in game advice or calls? or however you want to name it. I think i have seen CS matches where they are on the coms of the players but im not sure.
I know I sent FatGames to CC5 under the Impact banner mostly because I didn't want them to be totally screwed over by having FatGames pull out of the funding. If there hadn't been at least the potential for making my money back I wouldn't have done it, but it certainly wasn't a purely financial decision.
edit: nvm I thought you meant his ET teams.
Stop comparing ET to other games. It's not Cod or css, it's ET.
That's why I said that using this in pracs is fine with me, cuz that's training, but in officials? No, then it's simply an unfair advantage in an official tournament.
(example: xylos spots a medic at main, sqzz is the most close, xylos will say he is at main, and evo can tell sqzz he is the one who should go there to anticipate.)
would have a problem with that tho
(xD)
Anyone who's been to one of the CC events that eVo's attended should know this already.
Another question: Why are there no clear rules about this?
But like spho said, if that happened you or any other admin should've stopped him because it's not fair.
Whether or not eVo's calls can be considered an advantage is another thing but the whole concept of a 6th guy doing the thinking for the others is simply unfair. It's 5v5, not 5v6.
ofcourse there are other times to remember (construction white thing, dynamite explosion) but again no good player needs an outsider for those.
Having a manager as a spectator might give you an advantage only in comms. Might, not will 100% since it's also more risky that someone will fuck comms up. In fact, you can use a manager as a team leader when there is no one in the team that can keep up both, playing efficiently and taking care of the team's overall tactics.
All in all, you cannot clearly say what is better because both options have their pros and cons. You cannot measure what is better.
I could also compare it to football, volleybal or basketball. Every team should have a brain ON the battlefield. A manager might be helpful, setting up good tactics, but might as well fuck things up.
27 May: 2-4 Overload
27 May: 0-4 colt45
24 May: 0-4 FiF
24 May: 4-0 Squirtles
17 May: 2-4 vibe
No offence at all, but I don't think Unkind.Evo can give tips & tricks during an important match to players that've been there and done that.
Read: no offence at all.
I hope for eVo and his team he picked players that got the experience to notice that by themselves. I'm pretty sure they all know when to fall back and when to go offensive, no manager needed.
There are already ten eyes watching this game in favour of Impact Gaming, all from different sides and prospectives. Plus the players got enough instinct themselves after all these years and they got the most expensive headsets out there. I honestly don't believe eVo can add much more information, it would only irritate the players.
Experience and good teamplay would do the same job tho.
if all ten eyes are concentrated checking out their own position (leaning,planting mines,repairing) and there is suddenly someone getting attacked, then he will focus on killing them, surving and stopping them. and when he is dead or has a free moment he will add "1 medid,1 rifle,1panzer side". but this could be too late already. eVo would see that already and while the player is shooting and not talking yet, he could already give the information: there is a panzer at side !
Ofc the others will hear him shooting, loosing hp etc.. still they dont know.. is this only a medic attacking there, is there also an engi? or are all engis main.. etc
@edit: but yes, ofc he could also disturb his players alot
Like m1lk said.
Motivation wise they can be amazingly useful but in ET well i dont know how much it will help. Jason Lake is a prime example of how they can be used but i dont see evo being the next Jason Lake. Dont see the issue with it at all.
related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQyXBQ6jwZo
1) You're not paying a manager fee in the entrance price. The complete team is seen as 5 players and a manager, that means those people get a badge (players get playerbadge, manager gets managerbadge). Those people are the only ones who can enter the players area. It's purely an organizational thing and has nothing to do with extra fees or whatever.
2) The manager won't be allowed to join the gameserver. He will only be able to join the comms of the team, so he can give better calls which he would be doing anyway, but the only difference is that with the manager on the comms he doesn't have to shout or only talk to 1 player who passes it on via comms. That means his calls (and this is especially important for English-speaking managers) are heard only by his teammates and not the opponent.
3) ET has to become more like real esports such as CoD4 and CS1.6. If the other games allow this, they probably know best because they have been around much longer, and have had thousands of lans more than ET. Acting as if you know it all is just being naive.
Says fucking who?
Another tactical game has been around a lot longer than any game mentioned here. It's called Chess, and during a chess game the players involved will have to make tactical decisions and play the game, not the ppl around a chessplayer helping him/her while doing it. Nobody is allowed to sit with them and help them with the game as it's being played. If Chess does not allow this, the once who made up the rules for that probably know best, huh! Same dumbass argument, but actually has more weight to it if you'd ask me.
ET is not Cod nor CS. I don't care what the ruleset of other games are. The fact that it's being used in those games have fuck all to do with the fact whether this is a good idea for ET. Which I think it isn't.
That whole sentence didn't make any sense at all.
Anyway, have fun with bring back 6v6, or should I say 5.5vs5.5.
5.5v5? Wtf are you talking about?
Please do explain how eVo or anyone making calls would bring an advantage to a certain team. What's the difference between let's say Night playing and making calls and Night being on vent only and making the same calls? If any, that would be a disadvantage to his team. I really can't see what gives that team the advantage in the case and why that should not be allowed. People already mentioned U5 being coached by saintt and there are many other cases.
I think it is... pointless argument.
Not even going to comment on the dumb comparison of ET to chess and rendering comparisons of ET to Cod and CS invalid... the least you could do before posting that would be to think if chess has ANYTHING to do with a team based game.
Also, if anything, I actually think that's going to confuse the team way more than help. Therefor it should be counted as a disadvantage and I don't see why other people would be against that.
With your logic, you are actually trying to convince me that other games such as Cod and CS have it all wrong because they have coaches? Do their coaches make their teams less skilled?!?
I really can't understand your arguments, then again that might be because you don't have any.
For instance your argument that everyone else can do it and thus the whole point to object to it is invalid. If this was announced by the AEF organization that this was being introduced into ET, I would still find it a weird idea but at the very least everyone would have had a heads up.
I never said the CoD/CS scene has it all wrong. It's something everyone knows over there and it's common practice, however ET is not CoD nor CS. It's a different kind of game with a totally different kind of play-style and in my opinion a great tactical in-game leader can make all the difference in ET. If that is an external person from the 5 playing it is simply an unfair advantage if this was silently allowed instead of publicly announced that this was going to be introduced in ET.
But like I said. I have very little motivation to discuss this with an ignorant loudmouth.
e.o.d.
That's your mistake right there. Why should it be "introduced" ? it's not something NEW or DISALLOWED. It's just that you and obviously your teams have never done/experienced.
With your point, ET can become even more interesting if EVERY team has a master mind behind it. So why should we not support that? Again, it's not anything new... but you are obviously furious about it.
I destroy every single one of your arguments and then I am ignorant again.
God you people are retarded.
Accept that people have different opinions and then you might learn how to get your head out of your ass for once.
Over and out.
Nope. A different opinion doesn't make you ignorant. Not wanting to see certain facts does.
And that's the fact I'm talking about. For ET it IS new and has never been used, ever. For someone to ask permission from the organization to be allowed on the comms-server to do in-game tactical leading and for the organization to allow this and never mention anything to the rest of the ET scene is simply wrong and unfair. If you can't see that then yes, you are in fact ignorant.
I'm not furious about the idea nor am I furious about anything regarding this. I just do not condone the fact that it's silently allowed instead of introducing it into the ET scene and giving other teams a heads up that it's going to be done by at least 1 team on AEF.
Yeah, I thought you'd love to believe that you destroyed every single one of my arguments and the very fact that you believe that you did makes you very, very ignorant.
You simply differ from opinions and for some fucked up reason you think you have to bring that point across in such an aggressive and demeaning tone.
Strangely enough that's exactly the advise I have for you.
And after this comment I don't care what you say or if you even have the need to still reply, because I'm not going to anymore.
You feel the need to think your "opinion" counts as multiple facts. That's not the case here.
2. Yet again you refuse to state how that is unfair. Just wonderful and I am ignorant...
3. AGAIN. It's not "silently allowed" it's just allowed because it was never DISALLOWED. Get that through your head already. God, if it's so hard for you just think the same way about trickjumping. Is it unfair that some players mastered it while others didn't? Should it be disallowed because you and I can't trickjump as good as sqzz? Is that "silently allowed" as well? No, it's just allowed.
4. The very fact that you think your opinion counts as a "fact" should be enough for me to call you a... well, let's not. Make sure you know how to support your points next time you reply to me. Then you can even think about calling me ignorant.
5. Repeating my lines is also a sign of your "great ability" to support your argument(s).
Let's leave it at that...
... M1lk
Shame on you for taking the easy way out imo.