Faith, god, existence
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14 Oct 2010, 19:39
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Journals
Do you believe in God? If yes, do you follow a religion or simply believe in some supernatural life form responsible for the creation of the universe?
If you do believe in God, religion or not, why do you believe in Him? When did you start believing?
I don't believe in God in religious way, but I believe there has to be something behind the mathematical exactness of natural laws. I've felt this way as long as I remember.
If you do believe in God, religion or not, why do you believe in Him? When did you start believing?
I don't believe in God in religious way, but I believe there has to be something behind the mathematical exactness of natural laws. I've felt this way as long as I remember.
http://crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=112669
Btw, noob, only 185 comments ":D"
You forgot monster.
Nor do I follow any religion. I don't need it. I imagine some do, some are brainwashed ofc, but naturally they don't like hearing that, they like to feel they made the choice themselves...
It's difficult for a lot of people to embrace the fact that there isn't a higher purpose/reason why we are here. That's why I think religion has survived this long. :)
None of the other theories has the amount of evidence the BB has though :)
And it's still the best we got :)
but hey, if they can come up with something better, why not? It's possible, though unlikely in this case.
or
*Bang* And God said...
Read up on the theory, the simplified version is terribly inaccurate.
And now you can take your overbearing comment and stick it up your arse.
*gets out popcorn and coke*
And has a very wrong view about atheists... Then again it is to be expected with the pope comparing atheism to nazism :D
www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=104266
Is he comparing Atheists to Deatheaters in the last part though?
"Atheists will grab their black robes and hats and chase the christian"
Also one of my favorite lines : "Monkeys don't live for several million years"
Or: "If we evolved from monkeys, then how come we aren't born as monkeys?"
Or: "If we had all that acid in our body we'd all disolve"
:DDDD
But they're creationists, so yeah... They don't 'believe' in science.
I once saw a vid from them, they're the biggest hypocrits to walk the planet.
They say all science and technology is evil but then make propaganda videos and DVDs :DDD
On this case I can agree with you, lol.
Some useful tools for this journal:
http://thesaurus.com/
http://dictionary.reference.com/
k go!
NO to god, just fuck it
So I'd say that religion is the most fucked up creation ever made.
atheists only ignore either thinking or the facts, and refuse thinking and being logical. atheism is a religion :) and so is believing in evolution.
E: some random reasoning i wrote to some other journal considering kinda the same thing
And? Similarities between different organisms are most of the times because there aren't optional forms that would work as well as required. E.g. how the skeletons of different animals are so like each other, all basic structures differ only a little and so on.. because there aren't no other way them to function properly and to last tens of years of non-stop use. How to explain that the instructions for the motor were already there in the DNA. All the instructions were there before the motor could be built. And you need all the components of the motor to be ready before it will help the bacteria. Also, bacteriamotor is a system of 30 components. In TTS there is only 10. Where to get the missing 20, meaning the most of it? Even if flagellum came from T3SS, where did T3SS come from? There would need to be a huge amount of mutations within the same specific cell and the protein which would need to generate is approx 100 amino acids long. Won't go to the odds, you probably know it's practically more impossible than possible. Also the mutations should be neutral nor harmful, multiple proteins should be mutated simultaneously, etcetc. The probability to it to happen is approximately 10*10^-500. That would match 70 lottery wins in a row. Won't happen in a lifetime, huh? Summa summarum, it's impossible.
Actually, this discussion should be started from the primeval soup, I could list quite an amount of impossible things evolutionists howerever claim to be happened. Actually I would recommend you a book, because someone has already done the list for me..
Yes, true. System has to be complete to function and there couldn't have been a "building-phase", first there wasn't the system and puf, there was one. Natural selection and evolution itself keeps care that not-ready systems were cast out and therefore they were no more developed and new structures cannot be produced through mutations.
You talked about some single small gap in here? The whole evolutionstory is a one big gap. From the very beginning the synthesis scientists claim to be happened, has later practically proven impossible. The microevolution itself invalidates macroevolution. In practice, no new organs/organisms could've been evolved, because the optimisation of the evolution would cast the mutants out. Behe sure made conclusions, but from the present facts. The universe cannot been formed by evolution and there isn't other theory that would even try to explain it. However, people tend to want answers. You could only ask some of these unbiased scientists about how hopeless it seems to find a working theory to explain it. It seems so imcomprehendible and amazes everyone who gets into it. If you're logical in its real meaning, you might just realise that there isn't other logic option than intelligent design. ID (intelligent design) explains everything, but not in the terms of science.
Searching the answer is pretty much like pirates were searching for treasures. The pirates (scientists) had an island where they knew the treasure (answer) would be. However, there was a district where the pirates weren't allowed to go and search. No diggin there! So, the pirates dug the whole island thoroughly, except for the area they weren't allowed to go to. No treasure (answer) found :( Pirates started to think that the treasure could be on the district where there was no permission to go and search. Still they forced themselves to keep searching the same holes they've been over and over again. Now, scientists (pirates) are on a phase where they don't seem to find the answer (treasure), but won't give up the principles (won't go to the forbidden zone), won't give up the basic principle science has, empirical examination. I personally don't know how long they will keep digging, but one day they'll move to forbidden zone and accept the answer. It won't be scientifically valid in science terms of today. Science is not searching the truth However, science has almost a monopoly as a righteous truth definer.
And one thing, which is considerable as proof for ID, is e.g. peacock butterfly and the overwhelming beautiful and purposeful nature. Why would there be such a beautiful butterflies if evolution made them? The color and appearance would be strictly plain colored and the best disguise wouldn't be beautiful at all. There are many organisms whose appearance you can't explain by saying it's useful or vitally important surviving mechanism. Adolf Portman, anatomist and animal scientist said in 1976 that the greatest problem in biology is to find out purpose for the beautiful appearance. One other example of this is the singing of the birds, it's way more beautiful when the birds are not mating, when there's absolute no use for the bird to sing.
It's pretty much about how much you're interested in it. If you want an answer, intelligent design is for you. If you're not interested, you won't give damn nor you will accept facts, you'll reflect all the information. Or if you're a believer, evolution is made for you.
said Michael Ruse.
He was the leading anti-creationist philosopher whose (flawed) arguments seemed to convince the biased judge to rule against the Arkansas ‘balanced treatment’ (of creation and evolution in schools) bill in 1981/2. At the trial, he and the other the anti-creationists loftily dismissed the claim that evolution was an anti-god religion.
Some other proofs about ID:
Water. It's vital and its features are just made for life. The molecyle structure itself is just the right one, the components of water can move but also touch each other frequently enough. It's universal solvent, not too reactive, perfect viscosity for bloodstream and on the other hand to the capillar-effect, which enables large plants. The structure is simple: there is enough of it. It's crucial for the water to stay as liquid. It's own features help in that, unlike if there was no humans. All the physical features are just perfect (cba to list them here now) for life. Water is just right to adjust animal temperature and the temperature of the earth. Water makes efficient temperature regulation possible. It's also able to recycle all the nutrients. Water also absorbs harmful radiation and passes useful radiation through.
Light. Light is wave motion of fotons and sun happens to send just such energic light as molecyles can use. Still the atmosphere lets just the specific light wavelength through that the molecyles can use. Atmosphere prevents gamma-, x-ray and uv- radiation. The eyes of the organisms are just able to see to specific light the atmosphere lets through and the sun happens to produce. If the wavelenght of the foton motion was a bit smaller it would be difficult to focus, energy levels would be too high and cell size would be too large. On the other hand, too big wavelenght wouldnt be seen by us because the lens is too large, energylevels too low and cell size too small. What a coincidence!
There hasn't been much of evolution in the largest populations. E.g. malaria parasitizes. What evolution has occured is: some of them are Chloroquine-resistant. It needs two mutations to happen and the likelihood is 10*10^-20. Practically, no evolution occured within the largest population and long time.
About the universe. Electromagnetical force ratio to gravity is 10*10^36.
If gravity was 3000x stronger, stars wouldn't last long. If stronger, there would be short-aged stars, miniuniversums and planets width of a meter. Only a few organisms could handle the gravity. If gravity was weaker, there wouldnt be enough heat in stars to create fusion. Cosmological constant is very small, luckily only 1/10*10^120 of what it is expected to be. Otherwise, there wouldn't be galaxies nor stars. Mass has divided perfectly in universum: 1/100000 diffs. If it was too constantly divided, there wouldn't be no stars. Vica versa and there would be only black holes.
The ratio between electromagnetic force and strong interaction is approx. 1/137. If the ratio would be 1/60, the vital elements wouldn't be stable. Just a bit smaller change in the ratio would eliminate every element except for hydrogen. 0,5% change in the ratio would eliminate carbon and oxygen in the stars.
I do believe in karma though, mostly when I'm doing something considered as bad action towards another creature. (I mean it just pops into my mind: "man Im gonna pay for this sooner or later")
I find it hard to believe everyone is a dick. I mean, we might all do something we regret later, but does that make us all a dick?
Have my own beliefs, and none of these are religious.
I'll just post this here
http://lesswrong.com/lw/i8/religions_claim_to_be_nondisprovable/
but I won't expect anyone on crossfire to read this. because, after all, this is crossfire.
this one not being the best on rationalism and religion though.
Couldn't find the one that i really found interesting. Which was an article about all the bad things religion has caused throughout the history and all the good things religion can make people do. and also way's that do the same positivity to people without the downsides of religion. Philosophies such as stoicism are what popped into my mind.
although this new quantum theory by hawkings is (one of) the first scientific researches, which more or less definitely exclude god, it cant rly convince me..
i thought a lot about this whole topic in the recent 2-3 yrs and to me the signs overweigh that its pure sciene & natural coincidences, however my gut instinct just tells me different..
+ i dont belief in a certain religion, all of them have good & possible aspects and anyways, the question of the existence of god is imo only a minor thing in the teachings of religion
or was this already in a theory before? i might just have read the wrong things out of the article, dno
It's easier to disprove it, if it goes for a certain amount of time without anyone disproving it, then it's usually accepted as truth. (usually evidence is gathered that supports the theory or explains some other stuff we don't know)
We have a shit load of theories (some are ancient) that we still can't really prove in the real world, though mathematically and theoretically they are correct. That's usually enough to make them stick around, because why would they be wrong? If you can't prove they are wrong then they are almost certainly right right? And don't bring up lame examples of when it isn't because I'm aware of those.
oh, vertan sprach der hahn und stieg von der ente
not even sure, if it was a book
But now I dont. Asked friends who belong to this "I dont believe in Christian God but there must be something unnatural up there-cathegory" if they basically just say it because they are scared. You know, scared if God really was and they said "I dont really believe". And when they answered "yes" and they were shocked I figured it out I understood I basically had the same thing and dont have to keep going on like that anymore.
God didn't create any morons, morons created god.
I envy people that can have such strong convictions about something even tho there is really no proof of god's existence as far a s real hard evidence. It's all in their brain, that's my personal opinion and the reason I envy them sometimes because it just seems like some people just aren't "wired" to have that experience or relationship to god or other beliefs. But then I think about all the crimes against humanity that have been comitted in the name of religion and am quite relieved that I turned out like I did :)
I myself consider religion as a set of moral values or rituals every person eventually develops and either conciously or unconciously lives by.
At least that's how I explain the diversity in religions to myself.
But it's really too bad that some people seem to live by the word of their god so literally that it creates so much suffering in the world. For me that's just ignorance but who knows what's going on in some peoples minds, every human brain is unique, every person is influenced by their enviremount and the different experiences they have in life.
I think mainstream religion is a great idea that's gone horribly wrong due to the vast ammounts of selfish ego drivin morons..
But who really gives a shit? See? human nature and it's diversities :p
When MillJohn Stuart Mill, writer of Utilitarianism gave us the thought experiment that “It is better to be a human being dissatisfied than a pig being satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied,” Mill wanted us to think that this is reason to believe that intellectual pleasures are better than bodily pleasures, but it could also be used as an argument that higher levels of consciousness have more intrinsic value than lower levels of consciousness. Even if human beings attain little to no intellectual pleasures, we might still have reason to prefer being a human than a pig. The same could be said about why we would have reason to prefer being someone like Socrates (who has higher levels of consciousness), even if Socrates attains little to no intellectual pleasure.
tl;dr :D
That's also really what bothers me about todays society, there's so much influence from the media that people have gotten to lazy to think for themselves, all they do is basically repeat and believe what's been said. That's also why there are so many morons with high degree's, they're just the best at repeating things but when it comes to a certain subject they rely on what they've heard or read somewhere that resonates with them and say it instead of really going, wait a minute, lemme think about this... and that's where the real intuitive geniuses have shined, I mean Einstein would have never thought of the relativity theory if he would have stuck with the physical models of the time...
I feel stupid talking like this tbh, prefer this:
:D:D:DD:LOLOlX:D:DDd
... Just have to think about it ":D"
Here, let me fix this
No one knows how the universe came about and exactly how life started I suppose and people are often wondering about the why-question. I think it's something human to want to know the reason behind everything and it is hard for us to grasp the idea of something as huge (for us at least) as life on Earth just came about for no apparent reason at all. Filling in gaps of knowledge by attributing things we don't understand to a power far greater than ours is an perhaps an understandable act however implausible it is when given more thought.
Giving in to not having the slightest clue 'what life is all about' is maybe the most sane thing to do and is consequently a stance I would take normally. I can't deny that the idea of a God or a world beyond Earth, way more beautiful and pleasant than ours, is simply awesome, nor do I discourage others to believe such a thing. But in all honesty, keeping in mind the sheer endless variations of religion and belief humankind has known since its existence, it is simply bizarre to think of your own belief (which is probably yours because of your parents, surroundings, culture, something your randomly encountered, etc.) as the one thing that is actually correct in contrast to those crazy Hindu's with their crazy gods for example.
So no, I am not a believer, although I do play with the thought of heaven, reincarnation and a loving godlike creature chilling on a cloud somewhere now and then, just for the hell of it: we don't know what on earth we are doing on earth anyway.
tl;dr, I felt like writing something incoherent, long and boring.
and why?
http://lesswrong.com/lw/wq/you_only_live_twice/
I just see myself as an agnostic. I wish I could draw hope and support out of a religion, but it just doesn't feel right for me. I don't know how life started and why we do live, but I leave that in the middle until it can be proven by either side. Until that I just believe that there is more in those world then we can prove.
But it wouldn't be surprised me if daif was all behind this.
What does it have to do with believing? Everyone knows we know very little about for example our brain, the universe or the ocean. How some people can use that to justify their beliefs is beyond me.
Rage ON
Inside of it they sat, these cardinals of doom.
Their votes was unanimous.
The horror instantaneous.
Observe! Smoke from chimney - not white but red!
They say it was the day that God bled.
Nuns weeped, holy men cursed
As they looked up onto the balcony and saw…
Beelzebub the First!
I am the Anti-Pope.
I am the Anti-Pope.
Like a lion kills an antelope.
Like a hammer hits a cantaloupe.
I am the Anti-Pope.
Two thousand years ago
Jesus said to his travelling show,
"No need for push. Do need for jostle.
Peter, you is my number one apostle.
Your name is mean rock - on you I build church.
No longer for successor I have need for to search."
But by Judas this words was overheard
And with mighty Satan he soon conferred,
"Oh Prince of darkness, be not in hesitation.
The head of God’s Church needs decapitation!"
I am the Anti-Pope.
I am the Anti-Pope.
Like a lion kills an antelope.
Like a hammer hits a cantaloupe.
I am the Anti-Pope.
"Hey, Grim Reaper, lend me your sickle.
This world needs some culling, blood needs to trickle!"
Prepare for the end - the Apocalypse approaches.
It’s feast time for maggots, worms and cockroaches.
But here comes White Horseman - Defender of God,
Exposing to everyone his powerful rod!
"I alone will fight for Jesus Christ
With sword so sharp I can make cheeses sliced."
He laughs to the Devil, he takes aim at Death
And he strikes down the enemy who takes one last breath.
But too early the victor makes his victory roar.
He may win this battle, but he not win the war.
For, yes, Beelzebub the First is set fire to then crucifixxed.
But next Anti-Pope is Zladko the 666th .
Yes, I am the Anti-Pope.
Like a lion kills an antelope.
Like a hammer hits a cantaloupe.
Like a neck in a hanging rope.
Like a germ in a microscope.
Like a witch reads a horoscope.
Like a cutter stabs an envelope.
I am the Anti-Pope.
There is no longer hope.
Long live Molvania!