God paradox

"God is all-powerful, or as theologians put it, “omnipotent”; there is nothing that he cannot do. This is part of the definition of “God”.

So can God create a stone that is so heavy that he cannot lift it? Either he can or he can’t."

What do you think?



If God can’t, then he isn’t all-powerful. If God can’t create a stone that he can’t lift, then there is something that he can’t do: create the stone.

If God can create a stone that is so heavy that he can’t lift it, though, then he also isn’t all-powerful. If God can create a stone that is so heavy that he can’t lift it, then there’s something that he can’t do: lift that stone.

There is, therefore, no way of answering the question above that preserves God’s omnipotence. If there is an omnipotent God, then he neither can nor can’t create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it. This, though, is absurd; he must be either able or unable to perform this feat." - http://www.logicalparadoxes.info/stone/
Comments
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Here's one for you: if God doesn't exist, then who wrote the Bible?

Think about that for a while.
Where does it say God wrote the Bible???
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if he didn't, WHO DID ????
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suck on that, atheists!
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you sir have failed :D
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best troll of the day

+1


ps: if i hadn't heard that already, i would have flamed the shit out of you :)
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allah can do!
God better builded some heavy stones instead of humans,he failed in building us.
he can if the stone is in aalborg
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
free will is the key to this one.
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So there's evil because of free will right?

But there is no evil in heaven right?

So do people in heaven have free will?

:)
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what is the heaven you speak of?

anyway, if youre serious, you might have a look at for example "Universe according to Ra"
and look into the lucifer myth.
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Just saying, cuz you implied free will was the root of all evil. Therefore heaven must be absent of free will in order for there to be no evil.

Or there's simply no human at all in heaven, that's a possibility too, but then why bother to worship a deity?

And ehh, as far as I know they were referring the Christian/Jewish God. :)
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atheist does not believe in the existence of any god, thus it's not very convenient to limit god only to christian version.

This view is from the Universe according to Ra.

In a sense, free will is the root of the evil.
lets assume god wanted to experience the unknown, thus forgetting everything. he created the universe based on laws and one of the laws was free will.
he then started creating intelligent life, which in turn became independent creators (co-creators), these co-creators continued creating life (co-co-creators and so forth)
the further these co-creators advanced, the further they were from god. They started focusing on experiencing, rather than creating.
The law of forgetfulness steps in. It's been said (humoristically) that god's greatest creation is atheist, intelligent being who has forgotten the true nature of itself.

if I grasped your attention, you can research further.

and to answer your question, on the higher levels of consciousness you posess free will, but since you're again closer to god you have relearned your true nature, thus only providing positive energy.
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I know that, but we were discussing the Christian/Jewish God.

I'm very much aware atheists don't believe in any God, thanks, but don't bring other religions into this when we were merely debunking this God.

In fact, assembling pieces from several religions to make a case is rather sporadic and desperate if you ask me.



And what? If you can't do evil when you're close to God, then you don't have free will there, do you now..?

I'm not sure what you're trying to hint at.
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Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2]

so we are not talking about christian/jew god when we talk of atheists.

and for this instance, we could equate god with love. is love evil? dont think so. I suggest you read universe according to ra to get the picture.

also, if you persist on talking about christan god, I'm the wrong person to talk to, I agree, it doesnt make sense and if believing that or nothing were my options, I'd be an atheist.
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The author that wrote about that was talking about the christian/jewish God.

You replied free will to that and I replied to you.

I'm 100% aware of what an atheist is, perhaps even more so than you, seeing as I am one.


See, that's why I have problems with religious people. They try to make a case by making hypothesis. It doesn't work that way, you can only make hypothesis to make a point, not a case. But I guess it's all kind of in the same stretch as believing in God after all.
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where did the author of this journal set limits for god? It's your mind, that did this.

I used to be atheist, or rather, agnostic (dont really understand how one can be so sure to name himself atheist) before I did my research so I also do know a thing or two about atheists.
In western world I believe one of the reasons for atheism is christianity, assumably other parts of the world follow the same pattern with their mainstream religions. these religions make god look so "ridiculous" and once you've affiliated ridiculous with god, you don't really even want to look into it anymore.
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If you actually knew the author, where he lived and the context, then you'd know I'm right.

Instead, you chose to follow a very narrow view, the quote and quote alone.

Nice analogy of how flawed religion is, but let's save that for another discussion shall we...


You say, you don't know how someone can be sure enough to call himself an atheist?

I hope you realize an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a God and NOT someone who thinks God doesn't exist.

And no, they're not the same. Most atheists accept the possibility that a God may exist, but they do not believe in it.



Personally, I have looked into a lot of different religions, can't say all of them because there are too many to count. But it's pretty much the same tune everywhere.
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lol, look whos taking the narrow path.
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This is how I post lately, I make an initial post to a fragment and then edit and reply to the next parts. I find it to be more effective, unless the person you reply to, catches you halfway it seems. :)
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to my understanding atheist doesnt believe any existence of god, while agnostic holds the possibility of such, but does not submit.

religions are no way to go whatever your belief is.

this might be useful for you;

"have multiple different models of 'belief', use when useful, but subscribe to none of them. Experience will prove which ones were right, which were wrong, and help fill any gaps in the models."

and Like I said, I chose the quote, the journal, the whole package and nowhere it restricts the god to some religion, you on the other hand went as far as trying to figure out the backgrounds of the author of the journal and implied his views into this. which one is more farfetched?
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An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any God. Doesn't mean they think one doesn't or can't exist. There are such atheists, namely gnostic atheists.

Kind of the counterpart of people convinced there is a God, which would be gnostic theists.

The majority of atheists however are agnostic atheists. Which means they don't believe in God, but accept the possibility they can exist.

>and Like I said, I chose the quote, the journal, the whole package and nowhere it restricts the god to some religion, you on the other hand went as far as trying to figure out the backgrounds of the author of the journal and implied his views into this. which one is more farfetched?

I think this underlines a fundamental difference in thinking processes between believers and non-believers.

While I did research on the subject and actually came up with facts and evidence to support my claims, you try to make it seem as I'm the one pulling things from thin air.

Sorry, but no, it doesn't work like that and I've had enough experience with religious people to know that things aren't going anywhere.

You are probably a gnostic theist and as such there is no possible way to reason with you on this level.

Good day to you.
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"I think this underlines a fundamental difference in thinking processes between believers and non-believers.

While I did research on the subject and actually came up with facts and evidence to support my claims, you try to make it seem as I'm the one pulling things from thin air.

Sorry, but no, it doesn't work like that and I've had enough experience with religious people to know that things aren't going anywhere."

your way of thinking in this matter is so narrow, you have to place people in boxes in order to use your consensus thinking, rather than grasp what ive said.

You claim youve done research, well good for you, but just because you assume we are talking of something youve done research on, just doesnt make it so.

you keep putting me into the religious box and rely on strawman while you fail to notice, youre the counterpart of the religious thinker, one, who cant be argued with.
I did notice this from the beginning, but it wasnt so evident, thus it was possible to uplift the conversation all the way to the inevitable roof it was about to hit sooner or later.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism hth

You're about 400 years late, though.
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It's true, I'm not familiar with all the terminology, but each day is a chance to learn something new.
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he could also just have created evil to reflect what's good, which 'we' would otherwise probably not notice - in that case him not 'destroying' evil is not an act of cruelty but a favor ;)
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something with aalborg
Leave Aalborg alone.
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There are a hundred 'logical paradoxes' written about God. Copypasta doesn't make you smart. Moreover, you're trying to apply logic to religion, which is fucking pointless.

And where the fuck is Aalborg LAN?
guess in aalborg?
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Yes i copy pasted but as you faggot couldn't see was that i quoted it all and even added a link
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I don't think you understood.

Where the fuck is Aalborg lan?
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Seems like i made my point.
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nice read, finally some interesting content that you post. philosophy rocks
congrats, you've reached the level of wisdom of a 6-year old
can he announce and force plan a lan while at the same time exact this lan is never going to be real?

either he can or cant
i think its easier to know about god's story than Aalborg LAN dates.
Well, anyways, if there was a god and somebody asked him to do that, he'd probably just be like "Fuck this" and destroy the universe or something. That's what I would do.
I'll give you the answer : there's no god
here's a better one.

if big bang created the universe, what created the big bang? xD
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Yep, that's the question that will remain without answer forever.

Same for believers : what created god? ;P
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In the bible it says that at first there was a word. But who was speaking?
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"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...."
- Genesis 1:26

word god originally derives from the word elohim, which in some translations is intrepreted as "those who came from the sky"
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Jesus is a Word
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The bird is the word.
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troo, I just love it when someone is so certain, whether its the blind faith christian saying there's god without any reasoning, or hc atheist being certain there's nothing beyond what he can comprehend.
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yea, the questions about why we are here and what created everything and how it is possible that it all started, are either so interesting and so pointless to talk about, we will never know that. (i guess, because its impossible:D)
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tajusin eilen paukuis et uskon jumalaan/yliluonnolliseen (mikskä ikinä sitä haluaa kutsua). oon aina ollu ateisti mut tajusin et mitä pidemmälle mennään tässä "kuka sen loi" -asiassa niin koskaan ei saa vastausta. on vain helpompi/viisasta sanoa että se on jotain yliluonnollista ja mitä ihminen ei voi ymmärtää

se et haluanko kuluttaa elämäni johonkin yliluonnolliseen on sit eri asia...kai se on joillekkin vain harrastus tjsp

soz for finnish
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yliluonnolliseen oon uskonut about aina, mutta kesti kauan sisäistää mitä luoja on tai voi olla. itse koen, että jos lähtee etsimään merkitystä olemassaoloon raamatun kautta, joutuu helposti harhaan. se sanotaan itse kirjassakin kuinka saatana hallitsee tätä maailmaa ja jos se hallitsee tätä maailmaa, miksei se hallitsis yhden maailman luetuimman kirjan sisältöä? En tarkoita, että koko kirja on valhetta, päinvastoin, sieltä varmasti löytyy todella paljon asiaa, mutta koska se on erittäin tulkinnallista, sitä on helppo tulkita väärin. Saatana kuiskutellu ihmisille miten sitä pitää tulkita ja nämä hyväuskoiset nyt harhaanjohtaa niitä, joita he niin kovasti haluavat pelastaa.

oma näkemykseni :)
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joo oon kyl iha samaa mieltä. en kyl ehkä luokittelis sit itteeni uskovaiseks ku yleensä se tarkottaa just tällaista henkilöä joka painottaa elämänsä raamatun oppeihin, ei ehkä sana tarkast mut kuitenkin. tuli vaan mietittyy vähä epäolennaisii asioita ja et mistä kaikki on lähteny. se on vaan jotenkin niin uskomattoman monimutkaista että parempi on luovuttaa ja uskoa johonkin yliluonnolliseen. ne ihmiset jotka omistaa elämänsä uskolle on hulluja, mut mikäs siinä jos haluaa keskittää elämänsä epäolennaiseen, kai se luo jotain henkistä turvaa ja yhteenkuuluvuuden tunnetta. heiccomielisiä imo
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vain harhaanjohdetuja, raamatusta löytyy paljon viisauksia ja osatotuuksia liittyen universumin salaisuuksiin, kuka tahansa joka omaa uteliaan mielen, löytää varmasti paljon sisältöä elämäänsä kirjan kautta.
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There's no way that's a real language.
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haaah, it's a very odd language indeed.. how do you perceive it?
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it's all about quantum physics :D
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ye but if it's about matter and antimatter (not sure if its called like that:P), what created them? we could go like that all day
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who created quantum physics? thats retarded.
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I'm sorry? If u havent understood all of what I wrote before, then it looks like u've got another point of view that im not able to win with, so discussion is pointless.
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i find it less of a stretch to say that the random condensation of base elementary particles into more complex structures over an inconceivably long time may have eventually lead to my consciousness by random chance than to say

"yeah there's a conscious form that created everything and has a certain set of rules that it wants us to follow but doesn't care to clarify it's own existence when aware of increasing number of the people it originated rejecting it as a possibility - not because of a choice on their part to reject something they are aware of but actually out of an innocent though misguided over emphasis on evidence in their decision process"

also i find it hard to reconcile the idea of there being humans before my religion started who weren't given the chance to follow it because it didn't exist but will still be judged by its standards, and if they won't be judged by its standards then the religion must be transient and therefore may be invalidated by the passage of time just as surely?

just thoughts off the top of my head though
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if you take and compare bible's god with the "everything is just random" theory, it's justified to believe in randomness. However, there are far more "advanced theories" about god, I suggest you look into them, if you're interested at all.
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there is no such thing as "advanced theories about god" there cant be any theory about god because simply there is no way that can happend no way that theory is going to make actual sense. guess why
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there are alternative theories than the ones supported by christians and in my opinion, several of them are more advanced.

e: dont care, youre too much of a troll.
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all of them contain supernatural bullshit and u were dumb enough to say something like:

if big bang created the universe, what created the big bang?


and u call me a troll? x) before doing that please link me to some trolling crap and dont judge by the flag im wearing. ur full of crap if u do so.
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I judged you for the words you share, not for the flag you wear. also, since youre so smart, enlighten me, what makes big bang so obvious?
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my words? what words? just be honest, ur full of crap, the catalan crew has just this sort of "troll" reputation because we were in some poll. show me those words, u just cant.

about the big bang it was a natural scenario and it has wayy too much stuff to go thru and u dont know shit about it so u just cant say something like what uve said, not like i did go thru all of it because at my age im more concerned on getting high rather than reading theories but i do have a brain and my "faith" is rather in ppl who actually did go thru it and worked their ass off and make the thoery in a way it does make sense. it might not be the right one yet but those who find out will be scientist aswell rather those religious monkeys who support supernatural bullshit.

if u belive in some sort of god dont ever try to argue with ppl who dont, because actually the big bang is explained but not many actually go thru it so they throw stupid question like yours. so dont ever argue with non religious persons because simply we cant argue with u guys because your stuff is all "IF" bullshit. in proper discussions there cant be an IF and god belivers cant use anything else besides IFs

The big bang theory actually does make sense and thats why its reconized and approved by actual smart ppl. religion does not make sense at any point
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Quote by decem
troo, I just love it when someone is so certain, whether its the blind faith christian saying there's god without any reasoning, or hc atheist being certain there's nothing beyond what he can comprehend.


i suggest you to read this quote and more decem's comments. then make a guess again

i put you in troll/retard section anyway. dont try to take part of a serious conversation
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so? his question reminds there, u realise that quote is totally irrelevant? dumbass
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You dont seem to take part in real arguments a lot, now do you? Also, what you just said, could be easily masked as a fanatic religous persons comment, once you've swapped the big bang theory with god.

like I said, I dont give a fuck about your flag. It's your way of presenting yourself, this reply of yours only supports my point.

Do you know why big bang is just a theory?

also no matter how much you think you know about it and I dont, it still remains as a theory for the simple reason that theres no way of proving it, just as there is no way of proving god as the beginning of our existence. No matter whether universe actually is a recurring big bang, there was something that created the big bang and then there was something that created what created big bang and so forth.
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no not really as if they have anything in common.

The big bang theory is the one that is been questioned over and over and its the one that gives the most proper answers of all. and u still give away recomendations about god theories. rofl those cant even be called theories, atleast proper theories.

cut the crap about the troll thingie already.. making shit up to struggle on defending a lie.
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not surprised you fail to provide any further arguments, just your flawed opinions.
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flawed opinions? just like yours huh? why the fuck u think the big bang theory is the one being supported by ppl who is actually worth something. its a fact its the one answering the most things its not my opinion.
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spend time not just to read my text, but to comprehend and you'll see.
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to comprehend? u dont comprehend shit either how can u even dare to say such thing
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god = "the guy who made all this"
the bibble = a book

its just written in a book that there was a guy that made all this, ye its ridiculous.
but think about the fact, stated million times, something made THE BIG BANG. its easier to believe it was something supernatural because nobody can find the answer

you are totally misreading decem's comments and think that he believes in god that is written in the bibble
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what the fuck u are on about? i do know he does not belive in the god written in the bible.
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Quote
if u belive in some sort of god dont ever try to argue with ppl who dont, because actually the big bang is explained but not many actually go thru it so they throw stupid question like yours. so dont ever argue with non religious persons because simply we cant argue with u guys because your stuff is all "IF" bullshit. in proper discussions there cant be an IF and god belivers cant use anything else besides IFs


so basically you have no idea what you have written?

gotta ignore you now, wont waste more time for troll
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he recommends theories about god, sure some might be less ridiculous yet anything concerning a god is ridiculous, u dont get anything do u. perhaps u are the troll?
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without being egoistic i feel that you are not as wise as this kind of thinking requires ;j so arguing with you will lead to nothing
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check your previous comment, u didnt even get that, dumbass.

damn ur wise
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no, as i stated i wont continue talking to you since you are too stupid, no offence. let this be my ending line...
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and u still didnt get it. whats your IQ? like 100? x'DD
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Read decems replyers. Allah exists is no way around it. If big ben created earth then what created the big ben? No answer huh? you go home.
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so you're saying that there's a concious form that created everything, I'm asking what created this form? ;)

Im also not sure what you're trying to say in your last sentence, maybe its late and my brain isnt working as it should (Im not that good in english), but I dont get this one "therefore may be invalidated by the passage of time just as surely?"

If I completely misunderstood you Im sorry, its late and i should go to sleep
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opposite, i dont see any reason there would be a god based on the evidence i have :p
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so "less on a stretch" means "i cant find a reason" or smth like that? dont know this one.
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i would say its "a stretch" to believe you jumped 300metres high if you told me it and didnt give me any evidence

and it would be less of "a stretch" if you said you jumped 0.5m off the ground !

based on the term a "stretch of the imagination" implying it's challenging to believe something
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ok now I get it, about the religion part : Im not rly into that, but I've read or heard somewhere that many of the aspects used in bible were already used in the past, I mean in other religions. someone just put it all together and made some kind of extended version. Im not sure if it's true, like I said im not into that, but it doesnt sound stupid, considering the fact that basically religion is made to have power over the people.
On a side note, doesnt it sound stupid that suddenly god decided to create something (our universe or life for example), what the hell was he bored or smth?:D
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constantine, around 329 ad. supposedly bible was put together out of several pagan sources, while the roots of the original scriptures lead to ancient mesopotamia. I dont think it's farfetched that some of the material actually has truth in it, while the bible itself was made solely for controlling the minds of the population.

and about god being bored, I guess that might just be :)
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there are lots of ways to pick out flaws in religions and religious doctrines the best you can hope for is that someone with a religion might consider your point and release those beliefs
(assuming that they are wrong, otherwise you'd be fucking them over quite badly, naughty sinner!)
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Intelligent design? God might have created a set of "parameters" or boundries in which evolution was lets it own course etc. But i know you know all this and we won't have to go into detail for that! :D
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matter and antimatter is created out of a big bang
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u obviously never read about the big bang theory.
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tell me about it.
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skipping over that, just because you don't know how something works or was created, that doesn't change the fundamental nature of that thing, for example if you didn't understand how the element in your toaster worked and you didn't know when, where and how it was created: that wouldn't make it unreal or stop it from working, and it would still be there too!

you just have to have a bit of faith to say that the toaster is there, once created and sold does the machine or person that built it have a claim on it in part or whole ? or is it yours now you bought it, and you had the choice to buy it whereas you can't veto your own existence before your birth - if theres a moralistic interpretation of your life to be made wouldn't it be fairer to show you the sum of your existence before you existed and give you the choice to be created or not before implicitly putting you into a situation where you could potentially end up being punished eternally? :D

i'm not saying THERE ISNT A 'GOD' that created the universe, because i can never be 100% sure about that, but i am > 99% sure, enough to not actually worry about being wrong regarding religion (and i have considered it, and its a nice release to move past it, and not that troubling to admit you don't know everything and you probably won't understand in your lifetime either)
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like I said, I understand your stand very well, I used to have it when I was still trying to figure it out and as I tried to argue with christians about god. I concluded god to be way different than the one bible depicts.
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yeah i wouldn't place a human interpretation on it if i thought it existed on any level like its supposed to, but actually if i think about it like that i still can't see a reason it NEEDS to exist, maybe it just doesnt and i could spend my time on better things (not that i do Jman:D)
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mmm... it pretty much depends what sort of personality you posess. I stumbled upon these questions while walking another path and I could say I'm sort of a soul mate with Einstein, there's nothing more important than imagination and curiosity. without them, there is no progress.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity." - Albert Einstein.

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” - Albert Einstein.

“Curiosity is the very basis of education and if you tell me that curiosity killed the cat, I say only the cat died nobly.” - Arnold Edinborough
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I only said half of what I was supposed to, but somehow I'm too tired to think, if it were in finnish, it just might be enough to push me forward, but if u want, come to irc and we can continue there.
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:D i do like to think but i woke up about 20 hours ago so im going to go dream about big breasts this time
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pretty nice arguments, you seem to be wise man
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thank you, i was lucky enough to come after others like sagan, feynman, dawkins and many more who were much more intelligent than me, and were kind enough to share :)
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www.google.com

Ctrl C + Ctrl V

profit.
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no it actually came from my brain because im fucking smart
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actualy i knew all those quotes aswell :>. Heres something you may not know, its been proven Einstein didnt invent the theory of relativity, Galileo published a book with the theory of relativity in it before Einstein was born, Einstein just furtherd it. The book does exist and you can read it :)

goodnight
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you see when its copy pasta :J
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so you'd also support the theory of...well, not other parallel worlds, just shifted in time or yourself being somewhere with another personality or whatever, but at least maybe our universe not being a cosmos but a micro cosmos? if something created this big bang, why should it have been the first and only after all?
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just because you can't disprove something doesn't mean its got any chance of being right
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why would there be 0 chance for that theory to be right? i mean, we can more or less do the same in science, isolating things from each other resulting in pretty much the same i just layed out, no?

not that there would any way we would ever be able to prove that, considering size of the universe :P
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There doesn't have to be a what. It's perfectly possible for it to just happen.

I believe Stephen Hawkings wrote a book about it.
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universe spontaneously came to existence? I dont see how intelligent being behind it all seems any more farfetched :)
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It's not far fetched if you actually know your stuff. The vast majority of people, however, don't.
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I know, same applies for the other side of the coin :)
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Not really, since one side has evidence and facts and the other has some random theory.
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believing in big bang doesnt rule out god, I believe in both.
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Look, if you're just going to keep saying God without even looking at what I offer then we aren't going to get very far are we.

I never said that it would be impossible for a God to exist and have done that, I'm saying that doesn't have to be the case and that's not because of the big bang, but how it was set in motion.

I don't know enough about it myself to explain, but like I said I believe Hawking wrote an entire book about it explaining it brilliantly.

Personally, I see no reason to believe a God created it. Why believe in that when there is no evidence to support it?

But I guess some people just don't care that much about evidence or the truth, just about being comfortable and feeling safe.
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I have my reasonings for god's existence and I'm not really here to argue about those, since it would be simply pointless. What youre offering is your belief, if there's something more to it, speak it out.
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It's not a belief.
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read carefully what im stating as belief and what not. if that didnt help, then tell me, what is not a belief?
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I told you what the possibilities were. Which are facts, supported by evidence. There is a limit to that though and it could be possible a God is in that unknown.

However, personally I find that filling in God in the 'unknown' is incredibly counterproductive as it doesn't promote a continued search for facts, evidence, theories and ultimately the truth. If you think you already have the answer, why continue to search? Furthermore, if you think you already know the answer and somehow were ordered to search for it, you are at risk of using a methodology that will give you ammunition for your views.
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I understand your view, however believing in the supreme architecht doesnt in any way restrict you from researching whatever you want. Thirst for knowledge is given in birth and should only cease at death.
I know how beliefs can mislead people into areas which are counterproductive, but it's all the same with science than it is with religion. Religion without science is blind, science without religion is lame.
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Excuse me? Why would you research if you're already convinced you have the answer?

Why do you think no religion has a science department?

I'm against religion, because it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing the truth.

Science without religion is not lame in the slightest. But I guess you know so little science that you're able to convince yourself that it is so it can fit your narrow worldview.

Religion is always blind, whether there is science or not. The centerpiece of any religion is the blind belief in something that cannot be proven or even found evidence for.

No amount of science can undo that. Strong believers are able to perform such amazing brain gymnastics that they'll always find some random theory to preserve their other random theory when presented with facts and evidence.

It's a neverending struggle really.

But hey, guess what, if I get sent to hell for being an atheist despite being a good person, then I don't even want to be in heaven. Now if there is no God, then I'll simply have led a good life and made the world a slightly better place.

Out of curiosity, what religion are you a part of?
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You clearly havent studied both sides of the issue with an open mind due to questions you have to ask.

"But hey, guess what, if I get sent to hell for being an atheist despite being a good person, then I don't even want to be in heaven. Now if there is no God, then I'll simply have led a good life and made the world a slightly better place."

that's a basic atheist statement and I agree.

also it seems you havent grasped the statement by einstein about science and religion.
theres much into "supernatural" that you cannot study with the narrow methods of science, thats a fact and theres no way around it. same applies for religions when they discard evidence that doesnt suit their view of the world.

I'm not part of any religion.
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god was all omnipotent and shit for few eternities, he got bored, he wanted to experience himself, he created the universe and spread parts of himself to experience it, thus if god is everything, you and me, then this is fairly obvious.
1. write 66 books
2. Put all 66 books into 1 book
3. Book becomes a fundamental religion
4. Profit

imagine if the people who wrote all these books were to see the world for 1 day now. Would be pretty epic :).

Shit my book became the belief system of millions. Success, i just made that shit up to sell my book.
that sort of works for l ron hubbard but not bible authors :D
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Think about this. If religion didnt exist and somebody in the street today coined the idea of religion and you were the first person this guy comes up to and talks to you about it.

You would think what an idiot.

hell is where you burn for all enternity if you sin and heaven is where your soul goes after you die if you dont sin.....

while you wait for judgement day after you die you wait in pergatory.

er... yea alryt m8 heres 50p go buy some water and sober up you fag.
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i dont think you're wrong i just don't think people who wrote the bible made money from it
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i would love to have been the person that saw moses aparently come down from the heavans in a burning bush.

some guy peeing being a bush that the suns heat sets on fire which in turn sets him on fire = most inconic moment in the bible.
jesus rises from dead 3 days later and rolls back the giant stone.
He just passed out on the crucifix and was thought to be dead, put in a cave then woke up and the stone was on a slope so was easy to roll, then just walked out.

Jesus parts the water for the isralites to walk safely through. Or the tide just went out
The last Supper - they just had a meal before they all moved somewhere else to live
THE BIBLE
I WANT TO BELIEVE.

if it was written in contemporary english it would make 1 hell of a book lol.
:DDDDDDDD

The bible took 1500 years to complete. Dam ink kept running on the page so had to keep starting again.
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some of it does seem a little beyond feasible doesn't it
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a little? :DDDDDDD

gota give mad respect to god though if he does exist. He created the heavans and the earth, then on the first day he said 'let there be light' and there was.

He created the heavans and the earth in the dark. Mad respect to that, his wife must have been like ffs just turn the light on your doing it wrong.

why would u have to speak the words 'let there be light' who is he talking to? :DDDDDDDDDDD
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he created man in his image then created women to go alongside them after, so he probably didn't have a wife

that also makes him a single parent (to all existence), and the creation of the universe is in closer parallel to cloning than reproduction, lucky he didn't do it by having sex or he would be gay too, things that we know he hates!!!

bed time ;p
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"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."

:DDDD
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take note, youre most likely not talking about god, but of someone(plural, in some cases) depicted in a book.
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depends on which version you're talking about. the very first was imo just made to have some thoughts written up, to explain things that people at that time couldn't explain otherwise. at some point there ought to be some genious who was able to convince enough people of power that he alone was the voice of god and that he can bring eternal <whatever> upon them, if only they were willingly enough (to pay). at THAT point i tend to disagree with you that the bible exist(ed/s) to be profitable to certain parties.

(just in general) Overall I'd say people were back in the days more convinced of there being a god "because of...". If you were now about to say - "hey but there are more religious poeple than ever before" i wouldn't disagree but for other reasons, the strongest one being that they are just disappointed in <whatever> and find relieve in the thought that there is <something/someone> watching over <whoever>.
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Think about people finding a copy of The Lord of the Rings in 2000 years and start seeing it as the new 'Bible'.
Now that'd be awesome, they'd worship frodo :XD
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I cannot remember for the life of me where or source this but there was some research done on kids being left in some remote place (this sounds more brutal than I remember it) and they themselves came up with a belief structure. The argument being it's inherent in human beings.
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limiting your view about god to what bible says is not a good idea imo.
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I heard God is mostly masturbating and playing FreeCell these days.

E: And of course giving AIDS to babies in Africa every now and then.
nah he plays Hearts
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The definition of God (according to christianity) also consists of 'Him' being unimaginable, so you can't really think of Him in human terms as that's impossible.
But there's been so many of the arguments over time, and they're all quite interesting to look at, even just from an argumental point of view!

I suggest you read the famous argument by Anselm and Gaunillo's island argument in response to that. Quite good stuff
The Universe according to Ra is also pretty interesting stuff.

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/sep2/ra.htm

though it does require a rather open mind in order to dwell into.
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I am not familiar with this, enlighten me!
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oh see link now hihihi will read later so tired now!
But always open minded, study philosophy so have to read loads of shit with different arguments and such, always love to read what other views are!
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suppose youve had a look at the mesopotamian stuff, origins of bible and such? familiar with elohim, annunaki
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can't say i have, currently @ modern shit, which is quite boring tbh :<
But might look into shit when i have moar time in the summer. They make me read so much can't really say i've read anything for myself in a while :D
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wow, youre in for a treat. comments copied from a forum regarding it.

"In fact, the Torah is not nearly as mythical as some assume, but to fully understand some of the events it chronicles, one must revert to the source documents, which are cuneiform records from ancient Sumeria. Those records indicate that Homo Sapiens Sapiens is the product of genetic manipulation of more primitive human species in order to create a slave race, whose masters will eventually return, but not with the intent to sweep us all up in glorious rapture and transport us to Paradise.


The truth is out there. But it isn't pretty."


Just sit back and enjoy the show.

Betting on the four horsemen is a sure thing. Mass death was common, whole peoples vanished, so making the claim that your gods did it because they were mad that their priests were not supported as they would like, and only your donations can save you, and the world, like you cared and would not sell them all out for any advantage.

Floods and earthquakes followed by famine and disease killed more people than war ever thought of.

As for all evil being gone, the thousand years of peace, no suffering for the chosen ones, the only way to do that is kill all the people.

Willard is correct, the god being worshipped is Sumarian, for everything claimed by later boy gods was what what was said long before of Marduk, Marduk puts all the little floods and earthquakes to shame, affects the whole world, and finds everyone guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

End times happen, get over it, and it is not the Second Coming, it is the fifth in human memory.

Sumarians and Mayans based their calenders on the god cycle, and they all say the same, this god does not take bribes. Unlike other religions I could mention.

The Bible is true, or it is not, and it says, "The sons of god looked upon the daughters of man and found they were fair." This means there was a biblical Mrs. God, and her boys boinked apes.

The bible is a collection of ape stories, about how they turned away from the the path of the gods, and have been felling guilty ever since.

It starts with Sumarian history, the flood, which had been in print for 3,500 years, and the original is a much better work. The Ten Commandments are a direct steal from the 125th Chapter, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, and most of the middle, Job, comes from the Baal texts from Ras Shamron.

Names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Where it does get historical, leaving Egypt, dates to 1543 BC, where Geology tells us that there was a massive tidal wave, caused by Mount Thera on the isle of Santorini blowing up. As the troops went to give aid, the illegal aliens went on a looting spree, breaking into houses, killing people, till an order went out that all looters will be killed, and the army was returning,

All illegals within the borders of Egypt will be killed. The nearest border was the Red Sea. A whole bunch of them went that way quickly, around the north end of the sea, over dry ground, and on thier left was a piller of smoke by day, and of fire at night, the eruption of Mount Thera, which was much larger than Krakatoa. There was no statute of limitations, none dared go back to Egypt.

Some of the local people would trade with them, so hiding swords under their robes, both stolen in Egypt, they did manage to slaughter most everyone in a few villages, keeping only girls who had not laid with a man, and metal.

They thought they had discovered a clever way of avoiding work, tried it on some larger towns, and getting slaughtered, for people do notice missing villages, kept trying, like people would forget, and they continued coming as peaceful scrap metal traders, all men with a sword under their robes, and everytime they got slaughtered. Besides that they lost the swords, and not being able to produce them, were reduced to clubs, the jawbone of an ass, and throwing rocks. Like the opening of 2001.

Survivors were few, lived far back in the hills, and would mob the night camps of traders traveling along the coast. Traps were set, they were slaughtered, and their camps in the hills were slaughtered. Egyptian records show that on a regular basis, something had to be done about the hill bandits that attacked travelers along the trade route.

The bandits had a god, for the other people had such picky gods, Baal supported the right of owners to be safe, and their god said, you can have everything you see, if you just kill the current owner.

Minor raids and girl child kidnapping continued, no outlying house was safe in the night, till men swept through the hills and killed everyone. Now they did not wait for murder in the night, knowing every spring and camp, the area was cleaned on a regular basis, and the crime wave stopped, for hill people were killed on sight. Those that survived stayed far back in the hills. They were barred from all trade.

Later, after a period of good behavior, they were allowed to sell their children into slavery, which most thought a better life. Buying their children kept the problems down.

Taking religion from these people is like investing with Bernie Madoff, when it sounds too good to be true, it is.

Taking Marduk from the source, we live in the end of times, the judgement comes soon, and all of your tears, prayers, are to no avail, to prepare, flip a coin, when you can call heads and tails ten times in a row, your luck might be strong enough to survive the end of the age.

All gods in human form are humans dressing up and playing god. Marduk is not human, does not care about humans, and Marduk is coming soon.

Prepare For The End! I have a lawn chair, a cooler, and my Blublockers.


The words of men do have limits. The Bible is a good key to history, if you compare sources.

Starting with the oldest book that has been in print the longest, Gilgamesh, you will find the flood story, from maybe 7,000 years ago, which was an oral tradition long before then.

From 13,000 years ago, to 10,000 years ago, a lot of ice melted, the oceans rose 450 foot, and floods came from the tops of mountains, which took out everything with no warning. So the history is confirmed, but the force had the morals and ethics of an earthquake.

Marduk and the feathered serpent of the Mayan have the same description, a long period comet, 26,000 years, and that does fit with some mile wide holes in the ground made on a 26,000 year cycle.

The force involved is a hundred to a thousand times an atomic bomb, the local area gets hotter than the surface of the Sun, and the blast wave going out at 1,000 kilometers a second, kills everyhing within 1,000 kilometers. The blowback sends fire into the sky and into orbit, then a lot of it settles as glowing ash over a large area, but the rest dims the sun, and it turns cold.

The last one was Mauritania 26,000 years ago, just before a very warm period turned to an ice age. Cold air and land, warm ocean, 45 miles of snow fell.

As the Earth is 4/5 water, most would hit the ocean, and the gelologic record shows a tsunami hit the east coast, went all the way to the mountains, and would have killed everything. Florida is 48 foot at the highest, nothing survived. Flood stories are worldwide.

The Sumarian view was that gods were wind, rain, water, what we call Natural Science, and their creation story is still making the rounds, there was nothing, everything was nothing, it was dark and very cold, then there was a burst of light, and all things come from that light.

They were thinkers, a lot of good it did them, they built some mud huts and grew grain along a river, for 8,000 years ago came a drying, and the fertile lands vanished. That is when the Sahara turned from grasslands, lakes, trees, to what it is today, and that drying continued across the middle east, Iraq, the Caspian Basin, out to the Gobi, grassland that turned to desert. I have no idea why that happened, the Sahara had been grass for maybe a million years?

The Sumarian still thought climate, gave forces names, and as there is no Proto Sumerain, their language, writing, mathematics, comes from somewhere else, is fully developed, and also found in China and the Mayans. They were from north of the Black Sea, but climate change sent them to growing grain along the river, for nothing else worked.

The count of days also spread, and the story of the Dark Planet. Comets only light up when close to the Sun, this one would have a period of 26,000 years, goes out 1,000 AU, and we would not see it till it passed the gas giants. Comets are common, but we have not seen a daylight comet in hundreds of years, they are described, painted, but not in our recent time.

The Sumarians would have know this, and they said this is the big one. They and the Mayans say this ends the age in which it comes, this is the Fifth Sun of the Mayans.

So god is coming to punish the world, but it is not personal, it is amoral destruction.

Other cultures hold the same, In the Sutras of the Hindu this is the Yuga of Kali, death and destruction, which is needed for new life.

In a game played by the Sun, Planets, Comets, Asteriods, humans only exist as witnesses.

Most religious teaching call for renouncing the world, all of the people, and not being involved in their fates. If most are going to die, being in a group reduces your survival chances. Hermit in a cave in the mountains is a good job.

Most getting killed could be seen as bad, but survivors are much worse. The only way you could help them is be the meal for the day. I am not into sharing.

Most teachings say, he who holds onto their life will lose it, he who renounces all, and goes seeking in the new world of the dawning age, has the best chance of survival When food runs out, the worst place to be is with people, the best walking alone in the mountains and wilderness.

While they have been rewritten, passed down through the ages, there is some truth in it. seek gods new world, avoid crowds.

The ages are known by what ended them, fire, ice, flood, and there is no telling the hour of his coming. These reports come from those who survived. It describes Autistic loners who sought the coming age, and left all behind.

The only burden you can carry is your own. I have a pack, tent, sleeping bag, cooking set, fish hooks, snare wire, and could vanish for a year or two. The destruction might continue for hundreds of years, the after effects for thousands, most survivors are not going to make the first year.

Then there will be two groups, those who sought the new world, and some cannibals left in the cities. They will have a declining population and food supply.

Only those who follow the path of god, the new reality, will live. Forces beyond your mind have brought a total change, you must accept it as being the only path to redemption.

While this times stories start with the flood, which came at the end of the last cycle, and a truce with god, so to speak, Next Time The Fire, are true words. Our path leads through fire and ash, ice and flood, and the chosen will make it to the Sixth Sun.

We are the herd of god, and we get culled. While some will die in the destruction, most will die because they lack the sense to survive. God only likes survivors.

From the crater in South Africa from 220,000 years ago we have been through the fire of god eight times. It is a forced evolution. It does select for drive and intelligence. Technology got a big bump off of the last two.

So that is our stage, a dark lord of distruction, times of recovery, a cosmic intelligence that knows and loves us, and tortures and slaughters billions of apes to bring us into the joy of knowledge.

I know that inventors do not invent, they just notice what always was, then others can see it, and we do not create knowledge, it was always there to discover.

I know there is an infinate mind behind it all, but sometimes you have to get the apes attention first. This is one tough school, but it works. Both the god of light and the god of darkness are trying their best to kill you, the only passing grade is do not let them.
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Stop replacing every other noun with "shit".
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Stop replacing every other noun with "shit".
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Thank you!
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fuuuuuuuuu silly icelander, where have you been btw?
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Work work work work :(
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looks like Ra was a lonely stoner
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I dont know if it was mentioned in the page I linked, but Ra is actually a group spirit of venus!
when the habitants of venus raised to the next density, they became one, known as Ra,
not just a lonely stoner, a planet full of stoners !
Parent
Death vs God, grudge match.
religion journal bound to get replies
I'm a Christian and I don't give a fuck how God is physically described.
seriously, let people believe what they want. if you believe fine, if you don't fine. just stop trying to convince each other cuz that is not going to work, and stop trying to offend each other cuz thats just lame. people dont always have to believe what you do. just let it be
You guy are patetic...god is so powerful he can create stone so is so heavy that he can not lift and he STILL can lift it. You talk about god as if you was his friends, gtfo.

God almighty, praise to allah, dickprovider for bob.
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wrong reply?
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i have no idea why you replied to me, cuz yo u dont make any sense, neither are you replieing to anything i said or?
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no friend i come here and read this thread and i reply sory man if i do wrong
Parent
That stacks up right until the minute religious people attempt to impose their morals on others - then we've got beef bruv.
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true, but there are groups of people of every believe or political opinions or whatever who start to do it. that has nothing to do with religion just that people are idiots
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Boring argument so we won't but the womenz, always think of the women.

Using the paradox how the hell do you explain infinity?!
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you on drugs?
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adi trying to be smart

":D"
There is no god, just get used to it.
I can perceive that you don't believe in God or whatever but imposing your beliefs(?) to others is simply plain stupid.
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Believing in something that do not exist and have never existed is stupid.
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solid argument
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"I just love it when someone is so certain, whether its the blind faith christian saying there's god without any reasoning, or hc atheist being certain there's nothing beyond what he can comprehend."

I wouldnt spend too much time arguing with them :)
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Wasn't my intention to argue with him anyway!
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Why don't we just pick one belief and apply it to every human in the world? It's about the belief not whether accessorinesses are right or wrong. :D
Here's one for you: can God create lan in Aalborg?

Think about that for a while.
god is gay
BORING
Schrödinger is my god!
image: 41
lol, he knows more than all the scientists put together!
Parent
since you're trying to act smart, answer me this;

does God need hands to lift something and does it perceive weight in the same way you do?
where's the paradox then?
Parent
Toi menee aika scifics mut ei sitä koskaan tiedä :P :) pitää vaan pitää korvat ja silmät auki :)
Parent
kantsii lukee tost eliitist ainaki, sitä kautta helposti lähtee avautuun koko palapeli. en sano että tuo sivusto välttämättä puhuu totta universumin koostumuksesta, mutta pidän sitä ainakin loogisempana kuin se, mitä meille on opetettu jumalasta, ihmiskunnan historiasta, universumin rakenteesta ja koko olemassaolosta.

"have multiple different models of 'belief', use when useful, but subscribe to none of them. Experience will prove which ones were right, which were wrong, and help fill any gaps in the models."
Parent
Juu kyllä mä tän eliittin eli "illuminatin" tiiän ja lukenut jne. :)
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itse luin sivuston kosta siellä mainittiin sana tähtiportti. voi sitä parempaa sarjaa saa hakea. JAFFA KREE!
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I'll tell you why: he can create a stone that is stronger than him, however he won't do that since he is smart
God is Dog backwards, so is God an animal ? .. does he have hands? :>
Nice baiting
I think that the nature of your question including the answer for it is explained here quite thoroughly:

http://creation.com/if-god-can-do-anything-then-can-he-make-a-being-more-powerful-than-himself-omnipotence
emmää sitä itse journalii tarkottanu vaa niit kommenttei siin!
Parent
ei jaksas ruveta kinastelemaan :/
Parent
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