The Financial Crisis

population in the UK is just over 60 million. Current government debt this year has peaked at £1 Trillion. This equates to around £16,170 per head in the UK to pay off the debt, an incredible figure.
image: gordonbrown

Under Gordon Brown June 2007 to May 2010 Government spending astronomicaly increased. Leaving David Cameron with an incredible debt to clear.

Icelands population is 320,000. Current GDP in iceland is 13 billion dollars and Bank losses in Iceland are 100 billion dollars. Their external debt in the second quater of 2008 was 9.5 trillion krona (52 billion dollars). Which equates to 162,500 per head, an absolutely astronomical figure.

The US population is currently at nearly 311,000,000. Government debt is currently at $14,200,000,000,000. Equating to about $45,000 per head.

These are the figures for some of the worst hit financial economies in the world. Obviously countries such as Greece and Spain are in a recession also however im not finding statistics on every country affected by financial crisis.

So how did this all happen and what caused the global financial crisis?

image: insidejob1

The Inside Job is a documentary examining the global financial crisis from 2008 to present. Rated 8.1 on IMDB and in line for an Oscar as the best documentary. This does not dissapoint and certainly worth a watch. A great documentary if you have little or no financial knowledge and also if you do. Yes things are missed out and parts need to be in more detail to explain things, however such a feet would be impossible in 1 hour and 42 minutes.

image: bankrobbery

Tl;DR... expected. But for those interested you should watch the documentary
Comments
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QuoteA great movie if you have little or no financial knowledge and also if you do.


wat
"World population is just over 60 million in the UK"

wat? did not read.
nice that u pointed that out lol. edited :) but read it m8. Just an error from copy and pasteing and moveing parts around.
Parent
I know too much already..
Parent
basic for british, thinking the island is the whole world!
Parent
i am already living the so called world crisis.started by americans,promoted by weestern european countries.rich ppl get richer,poor people get poorer.is in your own advantage ,actually
we all are, bankers are robbing us blind. the forces of economy have gained so much power, that the men in charge for countries have to make decisions based on the needs of the economy and the needs of the citizen, while economy is in charge of everything, the choice seems to be more and more obvious each time.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”

interesting times ahead.
Parent
not quite all...comparing romania ,poland,bulgaria even rusia with northern countries like sweden,finland or norway...and u will see is a big difference.just by visiting all this countries u will realise it.the banks does what the banks did since the banks was invented.robbing people.

now the americans are trying to weak the europe,that s why the so called world crisis have been started,while the powerful countries in the europe tries and even succeed in buiding a wall:the rich on one side and the poor on the other side...

inventing the euro was meant to do 2 things:weak the american dollar and gaining more power over the weak european countries by forcing them to be slaves for west.that s how an intelectual from romania had ended from teaching students in colleges ,to clean toilets in sweden,uk or other countries.amazing,isn t it?
Parent
big difference, for sure. I'd say 3rd world countries are delibirately kept as 3rd world countries, as our system requires this. but in the end, we are all getting fucked in the ass.

The nations and boundaries are true, but could be compared to farms, while each of the farm has its own master, in the end, all the cattle is being sold to the same slaughterhouse. some farmers take care of their cattle better than the others...

image: walledworld
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i see a problem with those "countries" east of italy
Parent
in case of germany the euro does a far stranger thing - it's meant to keep our currency low so we can still export, if germany wasn't part of the euro our currency would have most likely rocketed up and noone would actually want to buy our goods anymore :P
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Quotewhile the powerful countries in the europe tries and even succeed in buiding a wall: the rich on one side and the poor on the other side...
Inventing the euro was meant to do 2 things: weaken the american dollar and gaining more power over the weak european countries by forcing them to be slaves for west.


Excuse me??? The people in the so called powerful Western-European countries were already paying lots of money for the weaker Southern-European countries in an attempt to unite Europe and bring all countries up to a certain standard. Now that lots of poor Eastern-European countries got into the EU, we will have to pay more and more. So don't you dare talking about submission or even slavery. The Western-European people are more like your sponsor.
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not only that i dare,but i m actually doing it.u seem to live with the impression ,that the western countries are the saviour for east.u obviously live in ignorance and what mass media tells u.ever heard about giving a junkie little bit of his crack so u can exploit him more after?that s what western countries are doing.FMI gave Romania in three different times some money to help the romanian economy.Ok very nice until here,but what FMI asked in return?FUCKIN SLAVERY!To pay back the money,we have to become slaves in our own country!They give us 10 euros(this is just a simple example),and in let s say 1 week we have to give back 100 euros.What kind of help is this?This is just an illusion that they help.More taxes,less money for kids and old people,for new mothers,for teachers and doctors.That s what western governments does.But don t get me wrong.Is not your fault as citizen of a western country,is the politicians from your country who have only one purpose:SLAVERY ,AND INCREASING THEIR BANK ACCOUUNTS,AND GETTING MORE TERITORIAL POWER!
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Live in ignorance? Listening to what the mass media tells us? I don't believe anything what the media tells me. I got enough neutral sources to get my news from and I give my own opinion about that. Btw, where are you getting your news from? Conspiracy movies or the same media we all get our news from?

And yea, the IMF gave Romania a loan. Why do you think that is? Because interest rates for Romania were sky high. On every loan you had to pay back 15% a year (because of the unstable situation your country was in, investors demand a higher risk premium, quite logic no?). Instead of loaning on the markets at sky high prices, the IMF offered you quite cheap loans at 5%. In exchange for this the IMF demanded reforms. I don't see anything wrong with this. If you call this slavery, you have no clue what slavery really is.

And why do you think countries like China, India, Brazil are rapidly developing? If the west really would want to keep their dominance they would ask all western companies to get their branches out of those countries and their economy would collapse because let's face it, the only reason why those countries develop is because western companies are investing in these countries. Why would the west do this when they want to keep their dominance? They are basically ehlping those countries. Wealth is increasing rapidly in these countries.
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i barely watch the news.can t remember when i turned on tv last time to watch anything on it.but i studied,i read,i talked to other people.everything u said about FMI is true if u get it from that point of view.But come here and tell this to 23 million people.Dude,do u know anything about how rich this country used to be and how much the West stole from us?U don t.U call it help,but come tell this to the old people who got low money to buy food and medicine,now is even lower!U call it help,but i call it bullshit!Come tell about this help to the mothers who before Fmi gave this money ,they had the right to stay 2 years at home watching their baby and they was receiving some money from the governement,now they only can stay 1 year and 25 procent of those money,cut off!U call it help?Tell this to the sick people who go on hospital,and see that the hospital is closing off cause no more money?Should i continue?The western companies investing in us huh?LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!I would invest too if i would have 100000 euros i would invest too!Yes,what can be more logic than this than going to a poor country ,where hard worker ppl are ,and getting more profit cause u don t have to pay them as much as u pay in your own country,cause the bastards are so fuckin hungry they would work for free?HELP U CALL IT?
Parent
So now your using examples and stories of poor people in your country as an argument? Like there weren't poor people in the past? Can you please use some _real_ arguments please instead of telling stories of poor people. I can tell those stories too but they have no validity in this debate. The fact is if IMF didn't provide these loans at 5%, Romania had to borrow from the markets at 15% interest rate and your country would be even poorer. There would be no IMF in your story but your stories of poor people would be even more dramatic.

And I was talking about western countries investing in China/India/Brazil. Because of this there's work in those countries. They can export those products to the west and gain a positive trade balance. This way money stays in the country and is invested in real estate, infrastructure, etc... Income wil raise because the country is competitive (positive trade balance, etc...) and so countries work their way up. The reason Romania is poor is because it's not competitive. Western countries are competitive (and got the advantage of being since decades/centuries). That's the reason western countries are rich, if you like it or not. Countries like Argentina, South Africa, Singapore, Taiwan are not part of the west yet they are quite wealthy so it's perfectly possible. You should stop blaming everyone and look to your own country (corruption, no competitive economy, etc...)
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QuoteDude,do u know anything about how rich this country used to be and how much the West stole from us?

Uhm, what? Unless you're related to Ceausescu, you should know that Romania has been a poor country for ages.
And don't get me wrong, I do feel for the normal people. But you can't be serious when you say their situation has been much better before and the West stole from you. That's highly ungrateful. That's like Eastern-Germans saying their life was better before West-Germany freed them.
Parent
there is something called romanian gold,worthing billions...stolen.is history prooved
the debt that romanian economist working in switzerland discovered in old historical papers..stolen by the germans...prooved,in the newspapers,admited by some politicians ,denied cause of threaths they received by others.money:17 billion euros.this bussiness i m talking about is quite new.back in the 1940 Romania was providing Europe with food ,being one of the most powerful countries in this domain.i m talking about corn.now we take corn from west,cause we don t have money for the culture anymore.when ceausescu was killed in 1989 according to history papers Romania had no debts to Europe western countries.and i m not defending comunists by saying that cause i fuckin hate them.but is the true.now how do u explain after 20 years we end up by being one of the poorest countries?not only cause our politicians are corrupted,but cause of a hard process of anihilating the east countries .do u think that the money from Fmi ended up in ppl pockets?no.it went straight back to their pockets and to the romanians policiticians and bussiness men.is a sick circle.richest get richer,poor get poorest.believe me or not,that don t change what it is!
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Americans trying to weak Europe?? That's bullshit. America has been suffering far worse since the outbreak of the crisis then Europe and how exaclty are they trying to weaken Europe?

The euro had the following advantages: price stability & transparancy, monetary stability, no transaction costs, increase trade over borders, lower interest rates and increased border employment. All the rest are conspiracies like how the aliens were behind 9/11.
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just to start with the end of your reply.i m really sorry,for all those 2000 or 3000 americans who died than.not the aliens,but yours truly George Bush and fuckin CIA was behind those attacks,so Bush have an excuse to atack Iraq cause there is the oil ,and America needs oil like fish needs water.Now ,this is no conspiracy ,what i have told to a guy here before ,i m gonna tell u as well.Not the american citizen is guilty for what is happening,probably he is just a victim as me .But,aren t CIA trying to control everything that happends around the globe?And why?From what i recall,there is special division in american government who all it does is to watch what is happening in any damn corner on this earth?U either see it or not,but there are even americans who admit it:America has all interes to control Europe and to control Rusia,it was allways been about power power power,and when some american president tried to oppose this he end up death!America will always have interes in Europe Policy.Now about the euro,please u don t have to believe me,just search on google what is the purpose of euro and u will find one damn clear answer:THE NEXT IMPORTANT STEP IN TRYING TO HAVE JUST ONE GOVERNMENT!EU ON ONE SIDE AND NATO ON THE OTHER!
Parent
Lay off the crack mate.

another hint: Don't watch all these conspiracy movies etc.. your brain is fucked.
Parent
u see how u participating on this conversation?insulting me...that s why i will stop replying u after this.cause is no point anyway u obviously are here to act like u are superior
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Because it's all bullshit. Have you given just 1 good argument? No. Why would I believe what you say when you can't/don't/won't prove it? It's all hot air just like so many other conspiracy theories. It's based on nothing. Just a crazy mind.
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did i not give any arguements?than what is all that i said until now?u gave me some numbers,talking smart,u sound just like them....empty words talking about numbers and crap.but do u know anything about reality?did u lived it,did u taste it,did u felt anything that u talking here?u don t.i do,every day!so spare me with your pathetic so called arguements and take a look at the western leaders,who wanna lead us:take a look at Sarkozy a pathetic racist,take a look at Berlusconi,an old pervert cunt,take a look at the beautiful german cancelor who refused last time to talk with president Basescu about aprox 17 billions dollars or euros i don t recall exactly that Germany owns to Romania.And this just happend like 5 months ago.Dude ,really u need to live more before trying to give me lessons.
Parent
Dude, I've lived for 6 months in the poorest area of Izmir, Turkey. There was a slum 100 meters from where I stayed. I've been to malaysia and been into slums so I've been between poor people so cut the crap that I haven't got a clue about it.

The difference is I'm not letting my emotions get into the way of providing arguments. You base your views on emotions (stories of poor people), not arguments. They may all be true but it doesn't add anything useful to your same old conspiracy theories of 'one world governemnt' and 'the west dominating the rest blabla', 'CIA controling the world'. It's just empty words and hot air, the same thing you accuse me of.
Parent
i will never understand why u defend so much on some crook ass politicians or greedy bussiness men?do u have any advantage from doing this?

poor people stories are not stories are experiences that i m aware every day!is reality!u say u saw it too,but is one thing to visit it and to be there for litle time,and another thing year after year to pass beyond u.

being realistic,i m sorry u see this guys as the last good samaritean for the poorest,but is not like this.they don t care about what me and u talk here and they definetely don t give a damn about the poor country.wake up from your dreams,get real,and forget about what they told u on school or what ever u came up with those numbers!is not like this!

world domination is real,intention of creating couple of big corporation and to separate the world in 2 3 big parts is also real,and for christ sake,even my dog knows about cia!now i really must go, i have enjoyed talking to u,please don t reply anymore u won t change a thing!
Parent
Where did you see me defending politicians or business men? I'm not. I'm only asking where you get these 'one world domination' stories from and provide some arguments/proofs. Everyone can just talk whatever they want. Should I all believe that? The same thing would be to accept everything what is written in the media and I do not. I'm a rational thinker basing my views on arguments, nothing more, nothing less.

I studied economy and work in the financial sector so yes naturally I will have views a bit more economically then the average person but it doesn't mean I defend them. Remember, capitalism had a lot of good things. It's not perfect but it improved the wealth of billions of people from all over the world. Yes there is still a lot of poverty left, I know that, but in the past it was even worse. Wealth has risen a lot all over the world despite still being a lot of poor people. You can't turn the world in a rich place over night. Remember, food, electricity, housing were only for the ultra rich just over 100 years ago. Now the majority of the world has those (and much more) thanks to capitalism. Close to 2 billion have internet in the world. Internet isn't a necessary need so as good as all of them have enough food, water, housing, etc...
Parent
There will always be poor and rich people, no matter what kind of society. There will always be people who work and other who dont. Do both non-workers and workers need to have the same amount of money? Is that fair? And who will invest in growing niche companies when -let's say- everyone has 100 000 dollar? Who wil invest in factories, agriculture?? Who would set up a new company and take a huge risk when there's no reward?? Answer: no one

Besides, if everyone would have 50 000 dollar, prices of resources would rocket because of the huge demand and limited supply. Huge inflation would follow and make your 50 000 dollar worthless a couple of years later. Everyone would be poor in that case.

Romania was poor in the past and still is so why blame the west? Capitalism at least lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty all over the world. Without the west/capitalism we would all still be living like in the middle ages.
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live in denial for all we care, but this is happening, if youd actually done your research, you'd know and its not just in romania. maybe you should watch some conspiracy movies...
Parent
china/india/brazil

how come chinesse come to work in romania?hmmm

india:ok this country in the medieval times used to be rich as hell.what happend?the europeans invaded it...the english came and destroyed all bla bla bla,but who cares?

brazil?i m not that good in south america history,so i won t say anything but....umm the spanish?anything about trying to force them skip to christianity?ring any bells?world domination ,bla bla bla?no?ok...and seriously where did u get those numbers?don t tell me u wake up in the morning and the first thing u do after u make your coffee is to open the money channel on tv or something like that?did u just google some shit about this and now u server me like u are some big smart ace in economy and u wanna impress me with some numbers?
Parent
Quotehow come chinesse come to work in romania?hmmm
Easy, because there are 1.3 billion of them. It would be quite some achievement to provide 1300 million people of western living standards, no? Obviously in a country that big there will still be a lot of poor people. Just to say, do you think 30 or 50 years ago there were no poor people in China (without the 'evil' west??). A hint, the people were much worse off then they are now.

The fact is in the last 10/20 years a middle class has appeared in china and 100/200 million are enjoying western living standards. Now guess when that started? When China opened it's country to the west. They opened up their economy to western companies and investors and now they are reaping the awards. Obviously not all of the 1300 million are rich, it can't happen that fast but the country is developing.
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china had bad situation cause of fuckin comunistS!just as we did as well!should i remember u china is a culture thousand of years older than european one?they was closed huh?same was the jappanesse and they should have been stayed closed ,they would have been better.after europeans came to japan and europe everything stoped!now all kids in china or japan wanna be justin bieber and they forgot about their old culture!i blame the americans for that not just europeans ,but still....u know ...china is just a huge opportunity for others to get really really cheap workers!nothing more....sadly
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Now your talking about culture, not economics. First of all, nobody is forcing them to listen to justin bieber. America has its culture and the chinese _chooses_ to adopt it. They chose to listen to justin bieber just as they chose to eat hamburgers. It no chiense would listen to justin bieber there wouldn't be a market for in China and it wouldn't be popular. Basketball and football are immensily popular, just as american movies and other stuff. Even if we tried to stop that, we wouldn't be able to do that.

Besides, they still have a _choice_ to watch/listen to whatever they want. We don't force them.

A country for cheap workers? Average wages in China are increasing rapidly. Companies are already starting to relocate to neighbouring countries because of the high wage cost. Again, remember 200 million are already part of the middle class. It has never been seen before that in 10 years 200 million have reached a high standard of living. Many dozens of millions more have been saved out of poverty. Yes there are cheap workers but without the west as good as ALL OF THEM would have been poor. Now at least there is a wealthy middle class and more and more are joining them. But yea, it's the 'evil' west again...
Parent
i recently saw some pictures of chinesse workers ,terminated by so much work,sleeping when ever they had chance:bench in a park,under a truck,in a fish market...u name it.man is so nice to hear u talking about numbers,but those numbers are just on papers...
Parent
Every year the world population grows with 70 million people, more then the population of the UK. Most of the increased population is located outside the west (India, China, etc...). Are you seriously saying it's the west's fault for not providing western living standards EVERY YEAR to 70 million additional people from China/India/etc... while those countries bread like sheep??

Yes I know it's not only on paper but are you really saying it's our fault all those people are living in poverty??? You can't be serious.

It's like saying I want to have 12 kids and the rest (taxpayers) have to pay for it and pay all the costs to raise my kids. You can't expect this, right? You do understand this? We are trying to raise living standards but you can't expect that the 70 million people that are born EXTRA every year get immediately western living standards. Is this really our fault?? Why shouldn't those countries do more to either improve the lives of their citizens or to limit the population growth??
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i m not saying this.nor the fact that this life standards difference between east eu and west eu ,appeared over night.it s been perpetued centuries ago,and large group of interested ppl made sure it will stay like this.i m not saying anything will change,cause some things will not change at all.is just the way it is,but is out there and it can t be denies.and i have my belives,as well as others do,that many ppl in west,i m talking about big fishes,not u regular folks,want and do anything is in their power to keep it this way
Parent
just your last remark...romania was poor in the past....false.i guarantee u one thing:if the comunists would not have taken power in 40 s ,and if romania would still be a monarchy,we would have been one of the most powerful countries in europe.u are educated man.go back in history,in those medieval ages u talking about and look who stand between the west and the great threats coming from otoman empire.just a poor example...
Parent
nice quote which has been proven in Asia and Africa over the past 2 months. Who said that?
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I haven't felt the credit crunch. Not even once.
while you havent directly felt it, it has deeply affected your life indirectly.
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I'm pretty sure my life would be exactly the same even if it hadnt happened :D X
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But you just steam through life bro! CANT NOTHING STOP THE RAZBROTRAIN
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Inside job actually won oscar for best documentary.
noob skeggface hax
Parent
nice, the english subtitles are here. been waiting for it. when I get home later this week, I'm gonna watch it, doubt its anything groundbreaking but should fill in some gaps and give it's own approach to the subject.
image: Rich_poor

Haters gonna hate!
This pic explains everything! There are high priority ppl... and ppl who don't have nothing.
Parent
"ppl who dont have nothing" means they actually have something :D

but ye i understand what you meant so dont worry
Parent
Please Greece was always in a financial crisis, its just that europe found out about it recently.
I dont really care
I think it even won that oscar? Only watched the ceremony in between naps ^^
Not sure about the UK, but Ireland has brought in a USC (Universal socail charge) whereby about €30 gets detucted from my wages every week, not nice
ahahaha in your face fenians
Parent
there would not have been a financial cisis if people understood how banks work, same during the aftermath: unemployment rate droped in germany while the rest of the world was going to hell.
thx government but as it is the way with lefties they still flood the media with whine.
people are suggested into thinking only in materialistic terms, they dont know what they want and when they get what they think they want, they wonder why are their lives still empty...
this of course rules out asking questions and concentrating on anything else than your own achieving and surviving.
Parent
according to this list(scroll down a bit) germany currently is at 1.762,2 billion, thats 21.489,8 per head - as high as it has ever been

you might aswell want to watch this aswell, quite much sums it up, even though i do not share the opinions of everyone and everything in this film, but at least it gets to one point: money has been wasted big times with those packages to save the banks, countries etc, could've used it more efficiently imo
seems like the only solution could be the islamic banking system, which is already mentioned both in the Bible (3 Thausends years ago) and Koran (who copied it from the bible)
and where will you work after your studies ? :P
probably not in a part of that chain that you denounce now? hehe
such a feet

seriously though, i'm on a documentary vibe atm so i'll check it out
blame american real estate market and retarded banks with their CDO's and CDS's
I thought this topic is about Crysis the game -.-
hogging and not using spoils, simple.
troo, real men know that the value is not in the things, but in holding the things and telling others these things are of value.
Parent
QuoteIcelands population is 320,000. Current GDP in iceland is 13 billion dollars and Bank losses in Iceland are 100 billion dollars. Their external debt in the second quater of 2008 was 9.5 trillion krona (52 billion dollars). Which equates to 162,500 per head, an absolutely astronomical figure.
In Iceland's case your using the external debt in a way to calculate the debt per head yet in UK & USA's example your using government debt.

Huge mistake.
true. Then the government debt of Iceland is 3.8 billion euros equating to 12,000 euros per head.
Parent
I'm quite sure those are not 2010 numbers. Iceland's government debt is around 100% (if not over) so if Iceland's GDP is 13 bn their government debt must be between 13 and 15 bn.
Parent
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