RtCW vs ET

Hey guys,

No, I'm not writing this journal to start the useless discussion of which game is better, I'm writing this journal because I want to pose a weird question.

Three or four months ago we, the RTCW community, started to see a lot of huge ET names on RTCW. I thought this was normal since there was a well-covered cup starting with a pretty cool stream by Warwitch and such. This isn't really special I know but the weird part comes now: Most of them are still playing and they're enjoying the game which is seriously fucking cool but it's also kind of weird since this isn't the first RTCW cup throughout the last three years. I remember talking with other RTCW players and we all expected that within two or three months we would be back with just the 20 usual guys idling #RTCW.Wars

The question I wanted to ask is quite simple: Why are you guys still playing RTCW after three or four months? And why are most of the ET names I see in our game the BIGGEST ET names ( with the exception of "n0" perhaps). Where are all the medskilled ET players on RTCW? I don't know if you play ET every day or if it's more casual like in RTCW but I can't believe you guys are still spending so much time on ET. For example Night prefers speccing an RTCW 3v3 while he is the god of ET and Sqzz is practicing RTCW trick jumps on his own while he would have 200 Mirc messages if he said "ET merc avi".

So, is it the community? The game itself? The Warwitch casts? The fact that you are not RTCW gods but you want to be? Dts' lovely blowjobs? Something else?

This question is for Night, Sqzz, Razz, Kevin, Olbaa, Clown, Phyzic, Xperia, Scarzy, Abort,Oxy, who are, according to the ET standards, some of the best ET players not to say the best ones out there. I would be glad if you guys could answer here, although I know it's pretty unlikely :)

Please notice that this journal isn't to flame ET or whatever, it's only for my curiosity so avoid the childish and silly comments that are so usual on Crossfire.

cheers!!!
Comments
73
implying im gonna read it
Oxy - one of the best et players?
No, Scarzy.
Parent
Haven't played any RTCW wars for a while, pub only! But still much more fun than ET.
The reason this RtCW cup got the signups and viewers was because of Warwitch - pure and simple.
Wrong, I didn't even know about Warwitch his upcoming casts when I signed up to play and I don't think coverage is the reason players like Razz, Sqzz, Night, Clown, .., decided to play this game as they were already playing active when ET was hitting 2000 spectators on Gamestv. Warwitch his cast is peanuts compared to those numbers, with all due respect to him of course.
Parent
ET has never had those viewer numbers ;) top game ever has topped it just - but it is hardly a usual occurance (and happened 7 years ago) teams like KiH and one.soldier I doubt would have made comebacks for this tournament if Warwitch didnt cast . Same goes for a few of the names you mentioned too, otherwise I guess they would have seen it as just another RtCW cup popping up.
Parent
must agree here
Parent
I knew you would trip over the 2000 number as only a few games, apparently just one, have reached that. Change the 2000 into a 1000 then, my argument still stands.

The cast will have had an effect but it's not the one and only reason like you make it out to be. Apparently, according to yourself, one soldier is just playing for e-fame and the stream but I highly doubt that KiH or any other team feels that the casts are a necessity before they would even consider playing. If we follow your logic then people like Sqzz, Razz and Night would have no reason to play at the moment since they're not in the cup anymore, yet they play every day.
Parent
hasnt been 1000 for like 5 years :P

If you think being on a cast brings you efame then that is your own opinion - I didn't say that. You seem to be intent on comparing numbers of viewers, I dont think anyone cares who or how many people watches when they play, a lot of these players never got the chance to be casted by Warwitch as they started RtCW after its prime or didn't attend any major events when he was casting - that alone would be a major attraction to play for anyone.

I mentioned us and KiH purely because we are the oldest teams in the cup who generally play with the same core team (and have done for a long time) with neither team having anything to gain from this cup and even less time to play then we did before - it had to be something special to get us in I am sure. Warwitch provided that with nostalgia and shazam factor. If you cannot see it, you don't want to :)
Parent
As for myself, it's really just the nostalgic feeling it gives you. It's not ET, the game we've played and routinized for the past 8 years... It's different, you actually have to re-learn to compete, and above all... it's active. ET may still have the bigger community, and might even be more active, yet rarely is there any game worth playing, as competitively, it's dead.
And the fact that, despite the smaller community, it's of better quality.
strong community > big community
best thing i learned in my course last semester called creating value using social media
Parent
is that even for free? if so, need dl link to try it :D
:O dunno if you are being sarcastic but here you go http://bit.ly/VV6fV0
Parent
why would i be? im barely active since 7 months or so. thanks
Parent
lol

the reason people are playing rtcw is because its something new (yes i know its older than et) but it wasnt being played for years, and all of a sudden theres a revival of the rtcw and its just interesting to some et players since et is becoming stale, its just something new to play which is similar to et.

theres nothing special to it, in a couple of months it will die and people will return to et..its not going to last
come and try then :O... i predict a great panzer :DDD
Parent
I have played it a few times, and yes panzer was the most fun thing for me :D. but i think the games too spam orientated + the splash damage is a joke. if you can spam well you will win, other skills like aiming etc dont really play a big factor. I mean the first time I played rtcw was in a 6on6, which i went panzer and got like 9-10k dmg, its just spam=win

People think rtcw takes more skill than et, i think the opposite, just my opinion though :)
Parent
This is actually something weve talked about recently - and tbh it is easy to get high dmg as panzer even if you hit 1mans all game (as long as you instant gib - gives like 350-400dmg per kill) the thing is if you are doing 9-10k dmg per round and your team are losing - you are doing it wrong.
Parent
The game I got that dmg we won, but thats besides the point, I was saying that spam is too dominant in that game
Parent
True say, WB
Parent
Just like ET it depends on the stage / Map - some are spammier then others. Although a skilled spammer can do it anywhere - especially rifle for ET / LT for RtCW.
Parent
I started playing Rtcw in this cup because I simply wanted to give the predecessor of ET a try, the fact that all Rtcw-players called it better made me want to see what all the fuzz was about.

The reason I kept playing it is because Rtcw is simply a better teamgame and on top of that the pace is a lot higher than in ET. The game is also less annoying than ET because, if you ignore the panzer and the spam on the first stage of Frostbite, there aren't really any lame and frustating ways to get killed. In ET there are way too many aimheroes who are braindead who lean and backrape non-stop and that's simply infuriating since they're getting rewarded for their dumbed down playstyle. In Rtcw you get rewarded for playing smart, usually.

The community is also a lot nicer and more mature than in ET. There is less flame even though there are a few guys who deserve to get hit in the head with a shovel but they're the expection. In ET you can't play two games in a row without one being infested with 13 year old kurwa-macs who flame and insult all the time.

PS: There is currently only one player in RTCW that I suspect might be cheating whereas in ET you run into blatant aimbotters and wallhackers every two or three games.

Grtz
wonder who the cheater is :p care to tell :D? you can pm me too!
Parent
PM me too! :p
Parent
Quote there are a few guys who deserve to get hit in the head with a shovel


:D Well put.
Parent
Quote... on top of that the pace is a lot higher than in ET.


Could you go deeper on this, because I still claim the mapdesign takes a huge factor at this point. And to back this up, i take Frostbite. It is the only map that gets played somewhat regularly in both games. In RtCW you are able to set some fast times, just like in W:ET and both are somewhat dynamic.
Correct me, if I am wrong at any point. In both games, the document stage, the positions for defence are comparable, imo. You will have a lieutnant at docs, a few medics around him, 1 or 2 at axis upper respawn, 1 or 2 at axis lower respawn, panzer/rifle freelancing. Maybe the rifle in W:ET is more stickied to a specific position, upper respawn, courtyard and service, depending on the teams. Still, when teams are equally skilled fast times are the norm.
Or is it the gamemechanic itself? To be honest, I didn't experienced this. Firerate is definetly higher.
What do you think?
Parent
I think he means the duels for example, due to the higher firerate (as you pointed out).

I also experienced that the pushes and stuff are higher paces, not sure why. The teams play more agressive, atleast from what I've experienced, because they can shoot more due to the faster regenerating of power for the LT's. That way they can give more and faster ammo and set some arties/throw strikes faster.
Parent
Okay, i was aware of the faster rechargetime, but imo it doesn't effect the pace. I mean, having more arties/airstrikes at defence slows down the attack (killing, letting attackers wait), at attack it clears an area (killing, push defenders back). But you got the same rechargetime for both sides. I don't mean the faster rechargetime isn't needed. Actually it's really important, because of my previous point: the mapdesign.
RtCW maps mostly have long ways to the objective. So, you need more ammo compared to W:ET to be able to hold the stage or to be able to bridge the distance from respawn to flag as an attacker for example.
I would like to see RtCW maps in W:ET being played, like more Frostbite and Base, village; maybe assault and beach.
Parent
The reason why rtcw maps aren't being played on et is because damage lowers in the distance on et...
on rtcw you do the same damage on someone who is standing next to you or if he is standing on the other side of the map. On et this is different.
Parent
Yes, i know that actually. I wrote: "... maybe assault and beach", because of this specific reason. Frostbite obviously works (still not that popular), base and village could work because they don't have this open space areas.

But then again there's Würzburg:
Radar is one of the best maps in W:ET, delivered great clutch moments and is totally playable in ET, but the second stage is almost long range only. This leads me to the question: Imagine playing radar in RtCW, would the nonexisting DMG-fall-off make the map: unplayable or just as playable as in ET?
Why is radar playable and ice, where the second stage is also open (still diffrent, i know), considered to be not fitting?

Opinions on this are welcome. :)
Parent
Mmmh, radar is more teamplay then aim on et... On rtcw it would be an aim-map i think and allies with thompson accuracy will have a big disadvantage. Snipers would be awesome tho :p
Parent
In RtCW, thompson striking accuracy is lower than MP40 accuracy? If so, this makes a difference indeed.

One thing I can't agree on, atleast not fully. Having an aim-map and players in your team who are able to take advantage of it, doesn't throw away to possibility to get revived after being shot. And having set up a good crossfire (talking about radar here) is a more important than having two (or more) players who are aim-heavy.
But in the end it's all theoretically. : )
Parent
You have some good points but there are two elements that make Rtcw faster ( or at least make it feel faster ):

1: The firerate, as you mentoined, creates the possibility of firefights being over twice as fast which in its turn makes it possible for pushes with multiple people to get shut down a lot faster or to succeed a lot faster.

2: The no damage fall-off factor combined with the fact that non-medics die after only two headshots compared to three in ET. These create the same efffect as the firerate which I explained above.

Edit: Also, as Ironic mentioned, pushes are a lot more "all in" than they are in ET. A team groups up and everyone pushes at the same time which creates a solid 3/4/5/6 versus 3/4/5/6 situation which is quite hectic and gives the illusion of faster gameplay.
Parent
Ah, thats an answer i like. Not like "RtCW feels so much faster ...", "W:ET is f***ing slow".

1. Yes, thats probably the biggest factor and can't be changed in W:ET.

2. The damage fall-off can't be changed either. But, one thing i would like to know, how much HP do Medics and NonMedics have in RtCW (all classes 100HP?) or is DMG/hit a bit higher?

Your Edit: This goes back to maplayout again, imo. How/where the chokepoints placed on the map. Try to imagine how you would play base or village in W:ET with no landmines of course. Most likely with grouping up, wait for the call, ... .
That again is why i want base and village being played/tested in W:ET.
Parent
hmm rtcw meds 140 hp and all others 100...
Parent
I see, in W:ET medics got 123hp and NonMedics got 100 but if you got atleast 3 Medics in a team, Medics get 140hp max. and NonMedics got 125hp.
Parent
osiris is wrong, its the same as in et (99% sure)
Parent
fack u r right... never understood why i had 123 hp sometimes lolol... 4 years of this shit and i still cant make a decent ffe on gate tower on assault. there r guys like these who remain nuubs for ever... ow well i supose not every one can be good at egames :D
Parent
better to be good at life mate!
Parent
"PS: There is currently only one player in RTCW that I suspect might be cheating whereas in ET you run into blatant aimbotters and wallhackers every two or three games."

Really? ET community has a lot of problems, but I definitely wouldn't count cheaters as one, because I honestly can't even remember when I last would've faced one. I don't do any random 3on3 games or play at public though, so could be that they just stay away from the 6on6 games.
Parent
It's mostly just random 3on3 games, though kevin exaggerates a little, but there are quite a handful of shady people hopping around.
Parent
you completly forgot the man "KAMZ" :)
waiting for his answer too
Good community every one is friendly apart from (me)!
Enjoy playing a "new" game that i have never touched
Met some nice guys playing and enjoy playing with them.
Its more of a "challenge"
Warwitch was another reason great work! me watching the streams made me motivated abit to play i guess?!
Some ET friends started playing
what koop said except part that ppl will back to et
Both games are good. Both communities are corrupted (rtcw one is less retarded though).

Waiting for DirtyBomb :)
just mad cause no top team will pick you!
Parent
Quote Where are all the medskilled ET players on RTCW?


Over here!
NICE SKILLFAKE
Parent
I know, if I see who's searching a skilled team or skilled players, I'm probably better than med :o]
Parent
Are there rtcw pubs?
there are. but even with this all activity rtcw is still a way more dead game then ET. right now i see 2 6on6 going on rtcw witch is rare and only possible by this time... the pub only gets ppl sometimes and basically if someone spam #rtcw.wars... nothing like NBS or hbc or hirntot or whatever...
Parent
The game is completely different and feels a hell of a lot more fresh and alive than ET does. ET is boring. I found this a big problem for motivation last time I played. Everyone has the same tactics near enough, everyone plays the same, and it got very, very boring. There were only two teams properly playing at that time too, which made things even worse.

The way those pracs were played were absolutely awful, too. Getting camped by the attacking team, random waiting, afking in spawns. It got very frustrating and irritating to play, and I don't think I'll go back unless there's a LAN to play again.

RTCW has a nice balance, where there is bullshit, but it's acceptable bullshit. Teamwork can make a difference and players can make a huge difference. There are bad refined ways that RTCW is played too (yes 118, i'm looking at you and your 5 lts on frostbite) but it still feels more enjoyable and less constricted than ET in so many ways.

I would say in the current way both games are, RTCW is more enjoyable when it comes to playing actively.
2-3 LTs actually, everyone does that (if they want to hold flag) - we are just better at it. so it seems like more.
Parent
I know I know
Parent
what oxy and razz said above
Quote

Clown

[20:35:09] <Clown> its same as koops kinda, just something fresh + et has no well orgnized cups running

I think Brink is better than these games.
I think this discussion about RtCW and ET and why we play one or the other is an endless waste of energy...

I'd rather see people agreeing on how to attract new generations to the games and organize well organized and well covered events.

Less energy to disagreeing, more energy to promoting the game!
Promoting a game where game itself actually require skills to be good, and proper aiming apart of that COD/ CS shit games, is pretty difficult and most of ppl will just decline it for the age itself, saying "its old, thats some bad game" and wont even give it a try at first place.
Parent
I know what you're saying, but it's not the point I'm making in my original post...
Parent
quite a simple answer for me, didnt know warwhitch was casting myself, me and olbaa was on about forming a team when we found out about the cup, rtcw was my first game i ever played so i wanted to give it another shot with people i actually like to play with, ( razz wasnt even playing at this point ) and in et their is nothing exciting at the moment and unless admins do something about it with some kind of money involved it will never pick back up, it will just be like rtcw in a years time and having a "good coveraged" cup there and then. but overall at the moment rtcw is just simply more fun
et>rtcw
I like the overall faster pace of RTCW and feel that the matches are often generally more exciting.

It's not like I don't enjoy ET though, I played in a few clans at a half decent level and cast it now as well. I just prefer RTCW, although it could be argued that part of this is because it was the first online-FPS I properly played as well.
It is easier to play ET with a high ping (anti-lag, hitsounds etc.) but much much harder to play RtCW with a high ping :(

Still, would form a team and play in whatever cup comes next without a moments hesitation though. The fun factor has been renewed with the recent cup and all the fantastic coverage!
i think it also is about the movement, play a 3o3 ice on et vs a 3o3 ice on rtcw. its really boring and awful in et.
There are certain startjumps that are impossible in et cause you can't glide the same on brushes and remain your speed to continue. also general strafing feels so different. to me as an rtcw palyer it feels like playing on timescale 0.9 or something
I like watching the casts without a doubt BUT I Played it a few times and I think it's pretty bad.

I will continue to watch the streams as I think warwitch is pretty damn entertaining. There have been some quality games too!
try downloading crumbs cfg and hf playing rtcw hshs :p
Parent
I don't give a shit about your debate but the one thing I'm sure is that the rtcw casters have to stop telling craps about ET.
Last sunday the fat guy with his nerd glasses was saying "Yeah you can see the nicknames of the enemies upon their head" or something like that. Fucking download ET, play it for a while and then come back with real and elaborated arguments. Otherwise, stop saying shit and do what you can do best: cast RTCW.

Still Warwitch's show's awesome.
Back to top