Antilag and you!

QuoteKnockback throws your aim off in a way you can't compensate for. Prediction errors are a dime a dozen in ET, it's not a big deal. Yes, they are worse for people with high pings... that's gaming on the Internet for you.


This comment was made by Reya1p in a reply to Madscientist whining about ETpro antilag. I will try to make this articles less of a technical rant and just give you what happens in reality rather then in theory. As you can see in Reya1p's comment, ET's antilag has one 'flaw': prediction errors.

image: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onoz


Antiwho?
First of all, how does antilag work?
QuoteAntilag fixes aiming so you can aim at where people were in the past rather than aiming ahead of the player relative to your ping,

Instead of leading your aim, you just play the game and the server will calculate whether you would have hit if you ping had been 0. So when your packets arrive at the server 100ms later, it will just check if you would have hit if the packets had arrived 100ms earlier :P

Antilag and you
So what does this mean in reality. First we got some small minor 'bugs'. Sometimes you get shot behind walls. This is normal as the guy actually hit you before you were going around the corner, but if you add the 200ms lag the hits will only get trough 0.2 secs later, when you are already around the corner. He did however aim properly at you, if it werent for the 200ms lag. This is also the reason why running toward cover before you die is sometimes a good thing. You will usually keep on moving even after you were supposed to be dead and will die while under cover so you can get a rez.

Second, all weapons that aren't hitscan (=not nades, riflenade, panzer, mortar, read weapons that actually move) are NOT antilagged. SMG and luger might show you tracers but these are just an effect not the actual bullets, they hit instantaneous. This means that your ping will somehow affect how they shoot. I never noticed this, and tbh when playing high ping its still easy to hit rockets in quake. All hitscan weapons just become useless, as Quake doesn't use antilag.

Last and most important: Antilag causes prediction errors. As explained by reya1p prediction errors cause your aim to be off, no matter how accurate you are aiming. Even if you are aiming dead on target, you aint ;) Some might call this a bug, other a feature. It is however part of the game, a gameplay feature that gives a decisive advantage to the guy hitting first.

Prediction erros get worse if:
-your ping gets higher
-there's a height difference between you and your opponent
-if g_knockback gets bigger (default at 1000, ESL uses 800)
-if you are being hit more

image: hitbox


Conclusion
So lets say i'm fighting a polish lagger who is standing higher or lower then me. If I am the guy hitting first, the polish guy will have a hard time hitting me, even if he is aiming right on target. So what could I do if i know this shit?

At close range, preshooting is a good answer. Although you tell your opponent exactly where you are, when executed properly preshooting can save your ass in a lot of 1v1.

At long range / fallofdamage range it is wise to get the first hit. If you are getting hit, it might be smarter to get out of your opponents track rather then firing back and hitting shit. Ofcourse this might not always be possible, but its nice to keep in mind.

The RTCW rule 'shoot at the defenseless guy first, then finish the guys shooting you' isn't really worths much in ET. Shooting at the defenceless guy wont work as while you are getting hit your aim is off. When you are getting fired upon, shooting down the helpless targets is not a good choice. Shooting back to give your opponent knockback is the only solution. If you continue to shoot the helpless guy your aim will be off all the time as you are getting hit hard.

Bibuy
This thread wasn't ment to bash Antilag. Do not suggest lowering g_knockback even more as its a very big part of the game and reducing it more would overpower medics. Plz feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

Reya1p vs Madscientist

Synching

Comming up next: Basics of teamplay or some experimental shit on prerender limit :P
Comments
61
to lazy to read!
overdrive verveelt em weer
ja was ff joint aant paffen en muziekje aant luisteren en dacht: laat ik nog es wat lullen
Parent
bakkes guidspoofert!
Parent
goed werk soldaat
Parent
nice work again overdrive
nice read!
Ai laikii dis one ja ja!
b_placebo 1 fixes all this problems btw
reya1p took over perfo's account?
Parent
STEALING SHIT OVER HERE
Parent
Bollocks.
gief hacx to compensate prediction errors
good read, now explain how viol aims at shoulders and gets headshots, eventhough the ground is flat, a good example is his fragmovies where the headshots seem to hit on the shoulders.
You mean, when viol shoots someones foot he get's a headshot?
Parent
Another proof that viol hacks!
Parent
When watching a demo, it doesnt show exactly where the player was aiming, there is always errors in demos
Parent
yes but viol doesnt aim at the headlevel at anypoint of the demo, its not lik the demo lowers his aim
Parent
i have like 10 his demos, he always aims below players head, and gets headhots, in such weird scenes, that a normal player (player with normal inet) couldnt hit unless he was hacking or sht :D
Parent
exactly there is something wrong with antilag in that section
Parent
I like you!
stfu stfu stfu
hi
stfu plx :(
Parent
lolz
hi
stfubye
gonowlozl
Parent
nice read
I seem to have this problem more and more, can't hit shit even when backraping someone and shooting on his head....
met jou etbot moet dat toch wel lukken, soldaat
Parent
hitting a crouched player from the side is impossible
Parent
Disable antilag go go go !
If knockback bothers you alot, just try strafing from side to side alot :) Works for me
Ofcourse, come on ventrilo, Norwegian pride.
Parent
Exam tomorrow, can't :[
Parent
"-if difference in height gets bigger"

??? where does this come from?
I dunno how I came to that conclusion, it was a while ago when I read all the antilag stuff. Seems quiet logic as pushing somebody back who is at the same height as you will not affect the players placement relative to your xhair, at least not the Y axis. When hitting somebody who is higher or lower, pushing him back does make him move more relative to your crosshair. I'm rereading all the stuff and hoping I see how I came to that conclusion :P Hoping for reya1p to comment and totaly bash me xD
Parent
tnx, you made me remove this:
IF height difference THEN you get prediction errors. Its is the pingdifference that sets the whole prediction error into motion :P
Parent
geef ff een samenvatting
At long range, when there is almost always a difference in height, it is wise to get the first hit. If you are getting hit, it might be smarter to get out of your opponents track rather then firing back and hitting shit. Ofcourse this might not always be possible, but its nice to keep in mind.
Parent
So, you're saying; when you see someone in a long range, stop moving and get hit, then start moving and shooting?
Parent
no he is saying the opposite. LOL,
Parent
Quote by Overdrive At long range, when there is almost always a difference in height, it is wise to get the first hit. If you are getting hit, it might be smarter to get out of your opponents track rather then firing back and hitting shit. Ofcourse this might not always be possible, but its nice to keep in mind.
Parent
exactly, to get the first hit. i.e. to get the first bullet hit in the enemy, and if the enemy gets the first hit on you, then it is smart to get out of the way instead of trying to kill him.
Parent
My engrish grammar is teh pwn, I know.
Parent
You mean I should hit the enemy first? If not try to cover and try again?
Parent
Captain obvious to the rescue! Well its just a suggestion when fighting 'falloffdamage' battles where it comes down to accuracy and hitting as much bullets rather then hitting 10 bullets as soon as possible.
Parent
gj overdrive, it's almost true but that's the beauty of ET :P
well done overdrive
i would destroy my computer if an antilagged panzrfaust shell came flying and hit even though i was behind a wall. That would be a funny sight on ettv tho !
What bothers me is that the antilag makes it hard to hit laggers.

If a highpinger is shooting at you with the correct strafe - you get insane spread

for example, if a lagger is strafing in front of you, and shoots ofc. his bullet will hit like 200ms later, therefore the bullet he fired when he was left/infront of you will hit you when he is to the right of you, causing you to get spread as if you were shot from the left, obviously causing a very annoying spread for you.
what was the command to show hitboxes?
Parent
some server cmd, ask swine he asked me the exact same thing yesterday, he might know the answer by now :P You need admin commands afaik.
Parent
haha they should force that command inall configs and laggers wouldnt be that hard to hit at all, and then they wouldnt have skills anymore !
Parent
that doesnt happen in cod2 :>
Parent
afaik you use point and click aim in CoD rather then track aim like in ET. Antilag is perfect for hitscan shooters like CoD and Counterstrike, even ET. The only problem with ET is that you have to track your opponent much much longer and you are actually being shot while you are shooting. Only played CoD and CS couple times, but they dont have any of the 'smg samba'' ET has :'(
Parent
Spread? You meant screenshake?
Parent
both actually. You do fly to the right if you are shot from the left, so this really throws you aim off. So in a sense this fucks up your spread while the screenshake just pisses you off cuz you arent being shot from the side, but from the front.
Parent
nice one
Back to top