The Future of ETpro?

ETpro as a mod was the saviour of competitive ET. Without ETpro, we would still be playing RTCW =P So what am I whining about today: ETpro is not open source.

image: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onozimage: 52199-onoz


This means we, the scene, are very limited in adding to the ETpro project. Not only can we not code new features for ETpro, ETpro is not our 'brainchild': ETpro was made by Bani and much like Arqon he has his own vision of how his game should look like. A brief view at the Baniforums will show you a lot of discussion where both public and competitive ET have totally different opinions while Bani doesn't agree with either one of them :P

We cannot write code for ETpro
If reya1p would add a feature to ETpro, it would share the vision Bani had for ETpro.

image: naamlooszd1


So what can we do? We could write a very very simple mod for etmain, adding a few features that would not change ET as a game. Features that come to my mind are:

Demos get recorded using proper names. Somehow you could input the team name, along with your opponent. The result would be your demos could get recorded something like: ClanX_vs_ClanY_Supplydepot2_13_06_2006.dm86

A coach feature for competitive play: 7th player who could spam in teamchat, and get the same compass and fireteam info as the rest of the team. Top competition could have a rule forcing their manager to watch the game on the server as a 7th, and adding a rule only the 7th player of the team can be in the same ventrillo channel. In the current competition if any team pauses longer then a minute the manager who is watching on ETTV tells the positions. Also spawntimes get corrected once the game starts on ETTV. Its just a brainfart, but it would be a very nice feature to have for top competitive ET. Atm if you are speccing a game you are missing a lot of info like the compass and the fireteam.

image: naamloosfi2


I thought about adding an ammo notice to your teammates healthbar, but Bani was against it as it would weaken the covert class even more. Other features like cmd to change the spread would also never make it into ETpro no point wasting time on coding them. If we could somehow code a simple ETmain mod, just adding a few small features, there would actually be a chance ETpro could just copy most of the code. This way ETpro can keep on growing rather then getting stuck at a fase were only bugs are getting fixed.

This is just wild idea of mine, not an official statement by ETpro. ETpro would never release its code, us writing ETmain code does not mean it will be in the next etpro update. ETmain and ETpro code are different sometimes, the features should have Bani's approval, etc BUT it is the only chance we have of making ET better and maybe one day gain Bani's trust so we could have somebody writing ETpro code rather then ETmain (nice dreaming skillz ov3r)

First version. Fire away!
Tnx to Feuersturm for his comics
Comments
66
xD

I'll edit after reading

EDIT: Lol @ coach idea, no fucking way it works in somewhere else than in fast-based FPS games like q3. And there are no much of use to it. Clanleader can handle the tacs and all players can rememer 2-3 solid times (spawns) even without a script.

EDIT2: Also ET is so slow game that all the information can be handle through voice-comms.

EDIT3: And IMHO arQon has listened the community very well when developing CPMA, he just became cruel and evil after all n00bs bothering him and whining.
Well clans in Australia use a 7th men as coach tbh and it works good over there.
Parent
Seriously, there is no fucking use to seventh man in ET. And coach would take all the glimmering off from the ingame leaders, those who are champs of the Finland chammps and leeds the team to victory or lose. Then we would have only 6 players, wow.
Parent
I totally agree with you that a 7th man is a retarded idea, but however the Aussie's showed that it can be usefull.
Parent
After beeing promised zerenders Qpad I accepted lightnings offer to watch k1ck games and release my critism after each game. It is only after watching games from a 'coach' pov, the 7th player issue became a problem. I talked to some real managers like frop swine and they both agreed.

Along with being such a nice feature for our top clans it would end the era where coaches were better off watching ETTV and sometimes giving away small details like correcting spawntimes or telling the enemy positions at a pause.
Parent
Coach is a long requested feature for etpro. Most leagues already allow specs and specinvite, and having a spec who is on top of things can certainly help the team. So it's logical to give them more capabilities to be part of their team. This is something I've wanted to put in for a while, but bug fixes tend to get higher priority, and most of us have little enough time even for that.

I suspect that porting an etmain implementation of coach to etpro would be a lot of work, maybe more than it's worth, so I'm not really sure this would be a useful project for someone outside the team. It will be a number of relatively minor changes in a bunch of places, and I suspect quite a few of those are ones that etpro has already changed. If it takes me as much effort to merge as writing it in the first place, I'd much rather write it myself.
Parent
i have an idea: there should be like some crap in warmup that would reset the player positions to their spawn, and "lock" the players, and the clock would start going, and the players could move right when the clock starts counting, so that it wouldnt be that lag crap on the beginning of each match....IF YOU KNOW HWAT I MEAN
this is really hard, agreeing you I mean
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WHAT DO YU MEAN!?!11
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fuck the edit, I only agree with bringing back the prone
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nice idea, makes game more fair
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TITS OR GTFO
why suddenly everyone wanna change stuff in et? isn't it "perfect" right now?
learn to read tard
Parent
your ideas may be good, but i mean a demo-renamer isn't the most important thing et needs. so why even bothering? tard
Parent
agree on pretty much evrything, but what can u do?
bani is still alive ? :o
can't be done with lua. lua can do some nice server / map scripting but it really lacks at other areas
Parent
Lua may get more capable in the future, but it's not really suited to some things (ones that would need to change random bits of code all over the place). If people can figure out (from the etmain SDK) stuff that they want added to lua, it doesn't hurt to request it. If it's simply a matter of exposing a few functions or fields, chances of it getting included are fairly good.
Parent
Didn't you know that overdrive hates me more than anything?
Nerf the medic slightly, and lower dmg knockback. ET would be so much better.
QuoteI thought about adding an ammo notice to your teammates healthbar, but Bani was against it as it would weaken the covert class even more.


I've been posting this for almost 2-3 years now that a Fieldops should be able to see how much ammo someone got (just like in RtCW OSP). And why would it weaken the covert ops? I suppose he meant the situation when he got a uniform. You could just add some random number as ammo info there. The whole info system would help A LOT I think.

I like the idea about the demos, but I can't agree on the idea with the 7th as a coach.
Like it would make all that much difference in competition ? Most fops drop ammo at specific points and someone will pick it up if they have time or really need it. Not to mention if someone really needs ammo they can ask on comms ? :-\
Parent
It would make a difference, so you can save your bar instead of giving ammo if you can see that someone is full. It might be even more usefull if it's shown in the fireteam overlay. On Braundorf for example you're mostly running around dropping ammo to side, lower, main. With that overview you can see very quickly where ammo is needed and where it isn't. You can also see if you can call an artillery or if it would be better to give out some ammo.
Parent
Eh it would save LOTS of time for the fops and everyone else.

And what do you mean with "you can still just ask for it on comms"? Lets remove the healtbar and use the same argument. :)
Parent
Maybe adding it to the fireteam would be a solution.
Parent
2fast4me :p
Parent
remove all spamm
Nerf everything but the knife.
running with knife gives you extra speed, killing enemies will give you money you could use to buy weapons at respawn. Knifehit = instagib
Parent
The coach problem is a problem experienced by all 'coaches'. I talked with Frop ,Swine and Adacore. They all agreed its a total bitch speccing a team as you dont get any compass or fireteam info. I know this is something that does not affect any of the normal ETplayers, but its a feature that would help competitive ET a lot. Giving coaches shoutcaster would give them the ability to see the entire map, not only the players pov?

edit: agree on the hitsounds thingy. It should have been removed a long time from ET, but its strange people actually supporting this as it would make ET even more of a teambased game. Most of the time ppl whine about ET beeing not enough about aim :P

edit:
(^overdrive) Edit: One major bugfix - finally make all stats available to shoutcasters with the popups during the match and the console output afterwards, that's one very annoying bug (or feature?).
(^overdrive) is this 'lua'ble? :P
(^overdrive) i guess not
([NW]reyalP) mm
([NW]reyalP) likely
([NW]reyalP) might not have all the fields you need, but they'd be easy to add if not
(^overdrive) :P
naming demos in a more proper way should be pretty easy to code - just like in html stat generating tools, so totally agree
+ to ammo idea (at least show percentage not numbers to solve the covert problem)
- to coach idea (with 20\30 secs on most maps its not so hard to time everything)
The 'coach' problem is something you only experience when speccing a team as a coach: you get less information then the ppl playing the game, while they are supposed to have a better view on things as they can switch players and dont need to focus on aim / movement etc
Parent
imagine the possibility of having a coach with wallhack - you will never prove it
Parent
Ppl can use wallhacks/ballhacks too right now.
Parent
i mean, you can detect a wallhacker by speccing him, we all make mistakes and he can accidentally track somebody behind the walls etc, but if you allow having a spec\coach in every game in leagues he can use wh to tell enemy positions\attack directions on comms remaining undetectable
Parent
cheaters want to pwn 4hs 11111
Parent
not to use some great feature because of some retarded cheater with retarded team? no thx

and for fuck sake whats the fucking difference now, if you have a cheater in spectators? disable spectating?
Parent
now in every league there is a rule that specs is allowed only if both teams agree
i dont get why you are so nervous
Parent
imagine having players with wallhack, so now we should stop playing game?
Parent
thats still illegal right? :P
Parent
Well, having coach who is able to see fireteam (all player HP points, alive/dead), seeing compass/minimap and having spawntime visible would be much more usefull than it's now with specinvite command. I am 100% for this feature.

Agree about hitsounds, it's so much better without them.
The hitsound thing is something to try out in cups first. Its hard enough having a global or only 2 configs right now. Afaik WL has its own config, so we are back to zero with all leagues using their own config.

Im not sure if we want a global config, but each league having their own is bs. Either we have a global config, or we have one for general ET, a global config (lower fps caps & packets,etc) and one for skilled ET (higher caps, remove mg?). Or we could actually unify them, by agreeing on removing mg and allowing for lower fps and packetcaps in ESL config. Anyway, CB should have a public debate about their next config. Having the CB admins figuring it out on their own didnt really work out so far :/
Parent
If u wanna go play without hitsounds u can maybe return to ET 2.55 :P and try to start a competitive play again there ^^
Parent
I don't agree with the hitsounds :<

If you want to play without them it's your choise but no need to force
everyone to use them...

Maybe there will be less whine and other shit but still hitsounds make the game alot more fun...
Stop adding features just fix the bugs.
don't even start with it :s, etpro has come to a capable level. If they add more it could be nice, but don't forget the gazilions we already got!!
What about a new hud? like that(it's from eth):


image: filephpzr9
thats just horrible!
Parent
you failed to be funny.
Parent
i didnt want to be funny, i mean the hud not the chams/wh -.-
Parent
lolY, it look horrible!
Parent
Dont even start this project pls.
yeah, we need also chaplja's hud
i like the 7th idea
WTF WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE NEED SOME FLASHY SHIT ON A FUCKING WWII GAME ?!
why disable hitsounds? :/
if you are clever enough you notice when shooting your enemy and the white puff + blood leaves his body, you hear a little sound coming out of your headset meaning he's been hit. it's not as much noticable as hitsounds but still pretty obvious (it's also in rtcw)
at long range you dont know if you hit, or not, without hitsounds. besides no hitsounds will make et less whinyer (lol)
Parent
tr00.. then its more about aim skill.. if some1 hides in the bushes.. u wont notice so fast:P
Parent
I agree, it's more for the projectile weapons
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