Interesting day in Denmark

So in the last 24 hours there has been some very interesting issues in Denmark and I would like to tell you about three of those.

1) Ban of smoking
At midnight the new no smoking law was finally executed. It basically bans smoking in public places, also bars and restaurants; there are so many small restrictions in the law but I wont go into the that.
image: no-smoking-2-circle_300

2) No cars on Sundays
This is not a political discussion yet, unfortunately, but people in the media has been discussing to re-instate an old law from the oil-crisis in the 70ies. It stated that it was illigal to drive a car on sunday, in order to save on the reserves of oil, and only public transportation would run.
image: signs-no_driving1

3) Old politician attacks PM
The old leader of one of the opposing party of the government writes in a column in a news paper today that: "The Prime Minister is a dangerous man who uses the media to sweep unpleasent cases away (like the Danish partition in Iraq). He also changes his mind about issues; he is dangerous in that way that because he is willing to take upon any "costume" in order to stay in power."
It is said that the PM has about 20 government paid spin-doctors working for him.
image: 581557


discuss! :)
Comments
73
Copenhagen is so clean city, unlike this craphole here, i saw white snow! And i didn't see chewed bubble gums, spit or whatever on the ground
I would like it car free weekends a lot, and imagine if it was entire Europe... think of the amount of pollution.
Parent
yes, at last one day when i could sleep or breath fresh air (i live in one of the most popular streets).
Parent
imagine if it was entire america
Parent
Indeed, imagine if it was the entire world.
Parent
Haha, the day North America establishes such a law is the day pigs start flying.
Parent
to count your moronic government it's possible
Parent
What Copenhagen did you visit? White snow? no bubble gums or spit?

If I go to central CPH I can disgusting snow (when there is) chewed bubble gum and spit on the street.
Parent
mm, fredriksgade if i'm correct, and nowhere near radisson SAS hotel, don't remember where. i compared it to my city
Parent
Maybe it's because I am born and raised in a "smaller" city in Denmark, that I think CPH is filthy. But I guess where you live must be more filthy :)
Parent
That's why i like countryside. quiet and clean
Parent
in germany they found like 6 dead people all where killed by headshots :>
is that what your bot tells ya'?!?! :P
Parent
ye :( need 4 kills more to get ultrakill
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M-M-M-M-M-onsterkill !
Parent
In Switzerland they only had the time to ban immigration, not more yet! =))))))
Switzerland is a strange part of Europe :)
Parent
It is sometimes: They don't have the time to bring on useful laws, it takes about 4 years, but when it comes to immigration they are fast! I think they just put the most ridiculous laws ever, as: Foreigners have to show documents and passports, but, when they are chased in their country, as kurds are by turkeys etc, they don't have any, right? "2bad for them" would an idiotical swiss policeman say at the border, sending them back and probably knowing that when they cross their homeborder they'll get hanged. Oh wait! Swiss people made it "fair"! If you don't have a passport, you have to give them a drifting point, so that basically means a random guy with an IQ probably below 100 decides wheter a family can stay or has to go, and believe me, they make enough wrong decisions.
Parent
oh, and a friend of mine probably gets sent back, eventhough he learnt GOOD swiss german in 5 years, our writing (he only kew arab before), normal german, and in school french and english. he learnt all that stuff in 5 years, and that not only OK. in the most subjects, included those languages, hes better than many of other ppl.. + hes visiting the 2nd highest school there is atm. if ppl like him get sent back, it disturbs me, especially when i still feel like the wrong foreigners are in our country, the ppl who say to you "wtf do you want idiot?" when u look at them for more than 2 secs..
Parent
tbh if they would let every paki in then the country would be f-u-c-k-e-d, they're doing the right thing :)
Parent
I don't think so, eventually the country would reach a saturation point and immigrants would look at other options; it may also occur that problems in their home countries would resolve, and they would return: no one likes to stay in a foreign country when their own isn't being ravaged by war.

I disagree that a country would be f-u-c-k-e-d if it were saturated by immigrants, they are, as most have noted, a hard working section of society, and one that can play an integral role in the economy; immigrants usually take lower paying, labour intensive jobs, which leaves a greater proportion of the local populous to enter into the service sector of employment. Think about it: with cheap labour provided by immigrants, swiss companies would make larger profits on exports (provided that there are enough swiss companies), and with the tax rate in switzerland that would lead to an increase in wealth for the nation. Greater wealth means more money for education, health, etc, and greater education means greater job opportunities for swiss citizens, which means that in the future the swiss will be higher earners.

Also, you sound like a racist fucktard, with big hair. Just an observation.
Parent
Kurdistan isn't ravaged by war anymore. At least the Iraqi part of Kurdistan. As a matter of fact, it is one of the most wealthy regions in the Middle East and they are now flooded by Iraqi "immigrants".
Parent
one comes from syria and the other from afghanistan. they are both chased and will get killed if they go back
Parent
So no Iraqi Kurds where I was talking about.
Besides, don't believe everything they tell you. Wouldn't surprise me if they exaggerate.
Parent
You are really retarded if you think they'd lie to me about smth like that. His brother is still there, and I can't imagine the pain he's going through day by day. You can't imagine either, so we shouldn't even think about he's lying to me, it's just wrong in that situation.

as example: It's like you are going to a burial, and when they say "he was always a good man" you stand up and say that it might be wrong!
Parent
I didn't say he was lying, I said he and they are exaggerating. You have to take everything with a pinch of salt. True, it is not good for them in their homecountry, but it has improved the last few years and I don't believe what they are saying really happens.
Parent
well, in those cases turkey or iraq may not be = syria / afghanistan, but ofc i dont know for sure aswell, so i guess im not in the position to argue about it, sorry
Parent
im not argueing about the amount of immigrants they should let in, but they HAVE to know which ones. there are different ways to reach that, but they go for blindness all the way
Parent
Immigration laws are always a touchy subject, for some reason, and goverments like to use them as a powerplay to gain support; it's the same thing with terrorism, gun law, and myriad other vogue topics which get thrown around whenever there's a major news story or public unrest. It's kind of interesting to watch the way Parliament can suddenly agree enough to pass a law on terrorism, but when it comes to healthcare, education or telecommunications, there is no consensus to be found.
Parent
Every Government pays journalists to print stories in their favour, or bury stories that are not; journalists are almost required to do this, if they want to break important stories, since a pissed off prime minister is not likely to recommend that his press secretary give you a call next time there's a major policy change.

Also, "it is said", by who? The same people who think 9/11 was an inside job and Neil Armstrong never set foot on the moon? If you can't verify it, it's like that it's been exaggerated, and even if you can, you must be able to see the irony.
Well in Denmark the free press is something that we hold dearly, just look at the "muhammed crisis" a year ago.

The person who said that he has 20 goverment paid spin-doctors is the same that calls him dangerous.
Parent
The free press is an oxymoron. You can't be free when you're reporting stories, you're always going to favour someone, and you're always going to have to help out people who could help you in the future: I'd say the prime minister counts as one of those people. We need a caveat emptor for newspapers.

And you see the Irony in that, right? He's invested in critisicing your government, it's obvious why he's saying that, but it's less obvious from where he gets his facts. When you read the news, you have to look at the motivations of the writer: context, and research, are your friends.
Parent
Well, there are so many cases that has been burried by the government. Stories that has made them look bad and I would say, as you say, that the press is doing stories like that in favour of someone, namely the people of the nation.

He is a retired politician so, per se he would not gain anything from this investment. Of course you could say that his motivation might be to help his former party members, in the race for government control.
Parent
He gains press coverage, attention, and presumably money from them both, and you're right, he helps his former party.

What cases have been buried, and, in your opinion, why?
Parent
Well one of them was an issue about elite-troops in Afghanistan, can't remember the entire story, but the head of operations (some high ranked officer) at that point was interviewed on the telly and he said: "Yes, we have had elite-troops in Afghanistan", in which the reporter replied: "But the defense minister says there hasn't been any elite-troops in Afghanistan". The officer then replies: "Well if he says so, then we haven't".
In connection to that, there was another big case about a documentry from Iraq, made by the national television channel. The law suit made by the government towards the channel is still going; because it unveiled some issues about the government.

A lot of immigration issues covered up and so on.
Parent
It does sound troubling, but then most things Governments do feel that way, especially when they relate to stories that seem unfavourable. I suppose you have to realise that, aslong as you're finding out about these kinds of things, there isn't really a problem: it's when you stop hearing anything bad about the Government, that you know something has gone seriously wrong.
Parent
The Danish PM is the minister of the press and his ministry is that of the press. He is obligated to be available for all members of the press, and must not favour certain journalists or influence the press. That said, he is allowed some leeway.

The UK is said to be very different from the Scandinavian democracies in regards to openness in government, and you should be careful about drawing conclusions about other democracies based on your own country. Plus, you might as well say that the free <anything> is an oxymoron. Liek, at the most fundamental level, free will is just an illusion.
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Hey McB, long time no hear :)
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I've always been a lurker. ;o)
Parent
"Must not favour certain Journalists", I suppose he isn't human, either? If someone has printed a string of verging on libel articles about your, it's rather difficult to maintain objectivity, in the same way that it would be hard for you to remain objective if I were to call you a fucking idiot.

Free press, regardless of my own nation, is a term intelligible by all who speak english, and doesn't require any special knowledge. Free anything is an oxy moron when you take it to mean "Each Journalist has equal rights, and all those interviewed or questioned must treat them as such; that the press should have access to all information", etc, as it implies that we are not human and that our actions are not motivated or caused by anything external.

Of course, if you want to argue that the motivations of the PM are wrong, then I'd be willing to sympathise, but the fact is that you'd have the same problems with anyone who is in power.
Parent
Some might debate if the Danish PM is human or an automaton, but you're right, he doesn't treat everybody equally. There's been a bit of a controversy over him repeatedly rejecting interview requests from certain journalists. It's not entirely black and white of course. However right or wrong the PM is, the criticism against him is warranted as long as he doesn't publicly state his reasons for being uncoorporative with certain journalists. It's just one of those things about being a PM: You'll have to be able to treat people fairly, even if they tend to be arses.

Free press isn't an absolute either. The government has to strive to meet the prerequisites for a truly free press. It's not something that appears as if by magic; like many other matters of democracy it is an ongoing process. Reporters without borders attempt to grade all countries in terms of how great the freedom of press is. Denmark is usually #1 on that list, but dropped several places during the latest tally due to members of the press receiveng threats during the Mohammed crisis. It's a funny thing.

In closing, a quote from British John Stuart Mill: If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and one, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
Parent
That quote is nice, until you apply it to reality, wherein the fundamental maxim of Democracy directly contradicts it: the minority opinions are silenced, in favour of the majority.

Truely free press is something that can no more be strived for than one can strive to not feel hunger or pain; you can enact legislation and pass laws to protect speech, but to impose fair and balanced reporting is directly opposed to that notion: if you protect free speech, you protect the right of reporters to favour one side.

However, you are right to say that the Government should not meddle in the affairs of the press, that they should not coerce or enforce their own agendas upon free agents: I only contest that, in a free state, this is possible, without breaching the right to free speech.

If I, as a politician, wish to ask a reporter not to break a story, because it may adversely affect me, or my party, then under the tenant of free speech I should be able to do so, only that I not exersise my position to force the hand of the reporter, that his actions be contrained by my words and not my power. Perhaps then, if the latter were true, that your leaders are using laws to control press, it would be relevant to discuss their flaws, but if all they do is ask, then they are protected by the very right you seek to preserve.
Parent
Not quite, minorities, as a consequence of being minorities, aren't silenced, but in general they do not speak as loudly as the majority. I find it to be a much bigger issue that the press to some degree have to consider financial implications when they select stories to publish. Some news papers have at times abused the privilege of free press to such a degree that I have had to reconsider the good that comes from having a free press. Alas, people want sensational stories, lies, sports, and pornography.

However, a free press isn't really about having a factual and balanced press. Journalists should just be allowed the access to pertinent, nonsenstive information, and then to report whatever the hell they want (conditions may apply). Exactly what should be disclosed to journalists is another matter. Again, there is a collision with other rights, such as privacy and security. "Free" really means less than that in an absolute sense, but that's where we begun. The definition of free.
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i shall hold court later
point nr 2 about the oil. Not to worry, denmark is also about to claim parts of the northpole icecaps as their own territorial space so they as well can grab a share of the huge ammounts of oil underneath it.

point nr 3. god DAMNNZZZZ at that pic. reminds me of germany about 70 years ago :P
Well the point about car free sundays, isn't about the oil... but more about the pollution.

You do know what movie that is from, right?
Parent
The ricefields in asia produce more co2 than all cars in europe combined, plz.. fuck off with polution and global warming already, it's one big stupid hoax.
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Totally clueless about Global Warming =)
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who is according to you?
Parent
You are forgetting fotosynthesis and the fact that riceplants do not pump extra co2 into the atmosphere, as opposed to fosile fuels that do.
Parent
excuse me. I mixed it up. I meant to say ricefields produce more globalwarming-causing gasses (methane in this case) than all cars in europe combined.

but that aside, I simply don't buy it that mankinds co2 production is causing global warming. I'm sorry to say it but we are too futile to matter. The effects we as humans have on mother nature and our atmosphere is pretty much null.

Watch this cheasy and make up your own opinion based on both sides of it. The side which is thrown at us in the media pretty much every single day and the side of this documentary. ->> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3028847519933351566&hl=en
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lets bomb asia!

problem solved !
Parent
what problem. there simply IS no problem.
Parent
who cares, lets bomb asia anyways ! :D
Parent
Hmm.. I'd rather bomb the us imo. America is a beautiful country, it's just too bad it's full of americans.
Parent
Sorry no time, need to pack for my vacation (with wombat and frnz!) and need to do stuff for my uni :(
Parent
You had time to tell me I'm clueless on global warming and bitch at me about ricefields :P when you come back from your uber holiday, go watch it. It's quite interesting.. OR you could just ingore it and enjoy your co2-tax on hamburgers in 2008.
Parent
the effect of co2 concerning global warming is well arguable indeed, but still the imprtance of attention it raised on the climatic changes is indeniably vital in my opinion.
Parent
climate has been changing ever since earth existed. what do you think a futile species such as humans can do about that?
Parent
sure it has, and to continue this little debate we the people need less biased information passed on by broadband media. for example it has been a great disadvantage that global warming has only appeared in connection with the term "co2" in major public notice, at least thats what i remember. presenting a problem with an arguable reason and not yet definitely discussed solutions is as wrong as ignoring the scientists that are alarming. its obvious that politicians have to act fast to not lose votes and hence they pick the "evildoer" thats been named first, which in this case is co2 obviously. once again nothing can be blamed but bad journalism by overenthusiastic reporters and a general inability and ignorance to evaluate pros and cons
Parent
Nice answer and yes I agree on most of it, however you ignored my question. What do you think we as humans can do about the changing of our climate? It's been changing ever since earth's existence so let's asume we are not the cause of it. In that case, what do you think we as humans can do about it.
Parent
this is one of the question i as a normal citizen cannot answer due the biased information i mentioned as i am simply lacking direct, scientific, reasoned knowledge on tables and data that is necessary to make a conclusion. these changes could be as well caused by mother nature as well as by human exploition of the earth and im not giving an answer i dont feel myself comfortable with as long as im not fully convinced of it :>
Parent
would be funny to have a sunday without cars and stuff for once.
we had em in holland as well. Must say it's quite liberating to walk in the middle of the road on the A15 highway.
Parent
we had it in germany in the 1970s'

image: 0501026

picture is from a sunday in 1973
Parent
Das rührt mich zu tränen. Keine Abgease, kein Staub, kein Lärm... herrlich *schluchz*
Parent
I know there were a few days but im not that old ;)
and tbh I always wanted to have a sunday without cars would be so funny but just for once.
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I rollerscated over The Great Belt Bridges, before it opened :)
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You daredevil you!
Parent
There was a Sunday in central CPH a couple of years ago, was nice!

The quietness was so nice.
Parent
i would appreciate it since berlin would be so nice without any car... easy to reach everything. i guess its not that nice if u live in a small village, but well if it helps our world, it would be the best when we gonna start tomorrow... or better yesterday :/
Parent
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