continuum

image: crazy_optical_illusions_old
Do you think everything have to have an start and an end?
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60
nice one
Depends, everything needs a start, but it doesn't necessarily have to have an ending. (imo)
Why do you think it has to have an start? I know that the very large majority thinks like you just did.

My father came with the conclusion that it just is like that after a 3h discustion, a very bold statement I'd say.
Parent
I dunno, it's not like I think about it that often. But it just seems so weird and far-fetched that something can just, from one second on another, "exist" without any start or beginning. It just doesn't seem/feel right...
Btw, were you insinuating that I just "followed the mob" with my reply? :P
Parent
You just wrote that something have to have to have a start again. :-]

And no, but I know that more than 90% thinks like that.
Parent
I probably did repeat my view, idd. But I don't really have an explanation for it either, nobody can find a satisfactory explanation for a question like that I think. It just feels weird and most importantly WRONG for me. I'm afraid I can't back it up with serious arguments though.
Parent
As expected, the human mind is not advanced enough.
Parent
True, I'm glad you accept that your mind isn't advanced enough either ;-) But I don't think PCs (e.g., they're supposed to "exceed" the human mind) can answer those filosophic questions either.
Parent
I don't believe what you can calculate and what you can think of is you, it is something beyond. A computer may very well exceed humans in such matters but if you would ever create a human by such terms you would have created life, and I doubt that is possible.
Parent
I don't believe what you can calculate and what you can think of is you, it is something beyond. A computer may very well exceed humans in such matters but if you would ever create a human by such terms you would have created life, and I doubt that is possible.

I'm not entirely sure whether I got what you were saying (a language really is confining :s), but it seems that you think computers are capable of doing thinking of their own. I don't believe this. I think, as scientists have said too, that a computer is limited because it doesn't have the connections (synapses) our brain lays, PLUS (and I find this quite major, even if it's not really about the continuum anymore) they don't have feelings. IMO if you don't or can't FEEL (emotionally), you can't really live. I hereby put forward that life and everything is started (and maybe stopped as well) by emotions. After all, you are (or are supposed to) be created in an act of ultimate love, which is told to be the strongest feeling possible.

OK, completely missing the continuum point, but at least we can go on filosophizing (is that a word? O.o) about stuff ;-)
Parent
I don't belive computers are able to do thinking on their own, matters is another matter.
Parent
start and end are relative
It doesn't have to be.
Parent
nothing doesn't "have to be"
Parent
nothing doesn't NOT "have to be" either.
Parent
i think most things have a start and end.

the only thing that i'm not so sure about is the universe.

if it had a start, what was there before? some void?
and if it has a start, it probably will have an end aswell... what will happen if the universe ends?

the big bang is a nice view, but i don't quite get the whole idea.
A theory I quite like is the idea of 2 kind of "times", and with the universe as an pulsating organism having pulsed from maximum mass to as close to zero mass as possible.

With the universe having an midpoint quite strengthen this idea.
Parent
that's actually is wide-spreaded theory about pusling universe, though there is another question what was before the first pulse, or everything repeats each time(so all happens again and again in the same way as it was the last time)?
Parent
and thats all there is: theory

as far as we are concerned 99.9% of the universe could disapear this moment and we wouldnt notice it in our lifetime
Parent
why would it all have to be the same again? what if there is a continuum without a start and an end?
Parent
I dont think that the universe will experience the end ever, and i dont think humans will be able to answer on all questions even in deep future. Though it has to have a start definately. Why do we have this specific concept of the world? Why do we have exactly electromagentic forces, gravity forces etc.? Somehow it was created. Though there is definately another logical question: what was before the creation and why was it created? The universe itself may have a start, but the thing that was before may not have it. The only thing I believe is that the universe isnt infinite.
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I believe everything is inifinite and undefinite, I don't think anything will ever be able to get a 100% real truth but it is what you experience that is the truth for you.
Parent
everything cant be infinite. the universe itself is finite, we just have no idea about other types of matter, which are breaking the accepted laws of quantum phyisics/mechanics etc.. For i.e. imagine that the universe is finite. If you will move in 1 direction with a millions of speed of lights a second and someday u will appear in the same place where you started your movement. It applies to all directions. In this case the universe has to be finite, but it's hard to imagine it. It's like if u r on earth and u r moving in 1 direction, someday u will reach your starting position, but here it's 2 dimentional system, unlike universe.
Parent
What if it is 4 dimensional, sure the way you think it would look like a sphere, but I think there is no borders.
Parent
no it wont be like a sphere, it wont have a shape in my case, and ofc it wont have borders, u just havent imagined in detail what i have written.
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You wrote it's not infinite therefore it must appeal borders.
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You have a basic view of that thing. If it's finite it doesn't always need to have borders. Ofc if u r taking a look at this, considering usual matter, then it will look unbelievable.
Parent
So what would matter consist of?

And try explain to me how something that have an end, even if it's close to infinite, would not have borders?
Parent
the question is not what matter consist of, but what properties does it have, and what forces are functioning in this system. As i said, you just think that everything is the way you see it, so everything you see is truth for you. Idd it's hard to imagine things like that. I'm sure even some laws of theory of relativity will be a surprise for you.
Parent
same 2 u meight.

movement, neutrons, protons and electrons are the only things that exist in that scale(not going into smaller things like quarks) from what we have learnt and everything beyond is only a speculation.
Parent
so you are trying to say that it isnt possible? well, anyway, by your statement you have just proven my point. You are stating it from the pov, where what you see is the truth. Actually you mentioned only known matter constructors (fermions). But the real thing is occuring with help of bosons. The quarks itself were discovered only 20-40 years ago afaik. So the biggest part of scientists believe that these particles can be also composite. Consider that with discovered quarks and their properties a lot of other important physics issues were discovered, and a lot of new more important questions were asked and theories created. The thing got more complicated. Imagine what will happen when quark components will be revealed. Also dont forget that anti-matter also isnt so well-studied.
Parent
Very well possible, but drawing such speculations without a base is not realy a theory.
Parent
it's a fact that overall mass of the universe is bigger than the one that is observed, so there are different types of matter that cant be observed on whole frequency range. So it's a FACT, and isn't a theory.

hint: Normal particles can be observed cause they emit radiation.
Parent
the universe started with the big bang and since then its expanding at speed of light.
more interesting would be: whats "outside" the universe? in the space its expanding into?
where does "it" end, where you cant go further, and whats beyond it?
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You think like that because your not built to think there is no such thing as nothingness.
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doesnt make sense to me
Parent
I understand you.
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i think u need to start taking english lessons, and end when u r finished ;)

i think u cant end something w/o a start, and the other way round
Meight, I got the highest grades possible in all english courses there was in secondary upper highschool, so no bullocks.
Parent
sex starts and ends
the brain just fucks up if you think bout that
everything ends
instead of just asking us and being all phylisophical about comments ppl post, what do YOU think slajdan, and more importantly, WHY do you think what you think.
Explaining why you think in a certain way will never give a accurate picture of how I realy think as language is only a small keg and will never fit those 100 liters.

I think that there is nothingness and everything and that there is no end or beginning.

***edit after 3on3
Parent
Quoteas language is only a small keg and will never fit those 100 liters.


so you are saying that if you START to poor into the keg, you will reach the END before the 100 liters are in.

ok!.

anyway, enjoy your trip.
Parent
The thing is there is no end of the flow.
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in your twisted mind perhaps.
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All you experience is true for you.
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nice pic :p
i don't think we need to know, so i stopped caring :o)
I think the same but I won't stop caring.
Parent
Everything has an end, because if you die, everything ends for you. ;DDDD
and how exactly do you know that?
Parent
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