Kenya conflict explained

So now two opposition MP(member of parliament) has been killed, and the situation is worse than ever.

Some of you know I was there when it started, but got evacuated first to uganda, but now i am in cameroon trying to learn french.

The question we all ask ourselves, "how can a country degenerate into such violence?"
I can't answer that, but i can give my thoughts.
Kenya was known as a very stable and peaceful country in its region, especially since many of its neighbour countries had a lot of troubles. Kenya has been viewed as a model country, managing to keep stability over time.
I was there during the last three months before the election. Everybody was talking about it, and even some people were fighting about it. Why is it so serious business? Back in norway it's like whatever, we don't notice any difference if someone else wins. But in Kenya, where lack of rescourses is a pressing problem, not to mention corruption, the average Kenyan will experience a lot of difference between leaders.

When I asked people, everybody said it was not about tribes. They wanted to vote for candidate X because he was the best, not because he was the right tribe, at least thats what they said. But under it all, there were tribalism after all. Kikuyus are the ones who have been in power for a long time. Most business is run by kikuyus. Luos, traditionally a rival tribe to kikuyus are tired of not having power.

It would have been all nice if Kibaki(a kikuyu) won fair and square, but it doesnt look like he did. Luos are also known to be kinda "noisy"; and Raila(the second candidate, the guy who lost and is pissed off) said wtf, hax, and so did the rest of the opposition.

Wether or not it is a consequence of colonialization is questionable. Yes, things would definately have been different if it werent for the colonization, but you cant tell how. Anyways, it took a time and some lives for the western countries as well to develop a working democracy. The path forward to get that working is shorter than the path back the original way of doing things.

Kenya is clearly marked by the western countries though. I talked to Dag Bredvei, the Africa-correspondent of NRK (big and serious norwegian TV channel), and he said it was kinda sad with kenya: they have a tremendous desire to be "western", and they try really hard. Thats probably why nobody talked about tribes to me before the election. But after suppressing their own culture for so long, the balloon went kaboom.


Anyways, i HATE french keyboards, and this was 2much2read. Have fun!
Comments
28
too much to read :~<
2nd tahttt
Parent
they need to be colonised again
What do you mean by that? It's just the same in europe, only just not the last 50 years
Exactly. And it gets better down there, but very slowly. 90% of the problems can be blamed on 1. corruption 2. extreme bureaucracy making it hard for people to own a business or property which means that their saved money will be eaten up by inflation because it cant be invested 3. High customs when trading inbetween the African countries (and also to Europe)
Parent
The biggest reason for poverty in Africa is the subsidized European Farming Policy. There's no way african peasants can earn a living when they have competition from European industrialized farmers who get money to produce to much food, which in turn lowers the average price of food on the world markets. No country ever made it into the list of industrialized countries withouth having an agricultural revolution.

One of the three basic goals of the European Union was and is to self sufficiency of food sources, which led to the highly subsidized farming industry in Europe. Luckily European policymakers are realizing this policy is a killer for a lot of develloping nations.
If it wasnt for the common agricultural policy 75% of British farmers would be out of business. The French have a similarly high number as they get even more from it than we do here. If you consider that it takes normally just 3/4 of the big countries to either win or kill a vote, I'd certainly say 2 of the big ones will never want change on this subject.

Only external issue that has recently helped European farmers is that China is now consuming their own production, which has meant more is needed from local sources.
Parent
a while ago i heard something about dutch farmers going out of buisness because french farmers get way more money from the EU than they do, thus enabling them to produce more and cheaper goods. smaller countries tried to get this changed but failed because the bigger countries appear to be "more important". if this is true, the EU should fix their own system before actually looking to change the market as a whole
Parent
That has always been the complaint of British farmers, that the French get more subs than they do. I dunno :x
Parent
Thats an opinion i dont really get; we should fix our own problems before engaging in problems that doesnt directly affect us.

Face it; there will always be problems. Even in Norway, a country which compared to where i am now works PERFECTLY, has way too much money and everything works smoothly, people always find something to complain about. "ONOZ, the ergonomy of the chairs used in schools are bad!"
But what about those who dont even get to go to school? I often went to visit a school in one of the Nairobi slums. They sat in a dark room without floor, the teacher didnt have a desk, etc etc. And i didnt hear anybody whining about ergonomy...?

My point is, take the biggest problems first, not the closest problems first.
Parent
ofcourse problems in africa and other parts of the world are equally important, that's why loads of money is sent there. solving problems by creating problems elsewhere isn't really a solution either though.
Parent
french farmers dont get more subs from the EU than anyone else. the subs coming from the EU are the same. Its just that french goverment is substituting french products another time to "protect" french agriculture against foreign producers.
But its also true that the frenchies are trying to avoid losing the subs from the EU.
Parent
If 75% of the british farmers would be out of business if the current policy dissapeared so what? If someone else can do it cheaper its good for everyone. However nowdays it seems that you have to put enviromental factors into work, giving atleast one reason why do choose local alternatives.
Parent
I doubt it would be good for those 75% who will be put out of bussiness. I would love to see a politician explaining that it's better for the rest that they are put out of bussiness.
Parent
Long term its best for everyone_to let the person who can make the relativly most wanted produkt for the relativly lowest price. Even the british farmers. Read In Defense of Global Capitalism, best book ever. :)
Parent
The problem is, what politician is mad/smart enough to do that? People don't tend to think on longterm, only on shortterm. And the politician who does that can say goodbye to his political carreer.

And I shall !
Parent
Indeed. But Kenya was on its way up. It has had a steady economic growth the last years, but now a LOT of that is ruined. Western investors thought of Kenya as a safe place to invest, but not anymore. It will take years to regain that reputation.
Parent
humans fail once again :[
There was a story in yesterdays Times (world section) with a 'nice' half page picture of man holding a machete in front of a car wreckage.

It's about the tribes, and no you can't blame it on European Imperialism. I wonder when Africa themselves are going to get sick of using that excuse!
Yes and no. It is about tribes, but in its original context the tribes didnt pose the kind of problems it poses now.
In the present context tribalism is bad, as it leads to wrong distribution of goods, but in its original context it wasnt. Now who brought the present context of representative democracy?
However, nobody benefits from putting blame anywhere. We are all part of this planet, hence we should all engage to solve conflicts like this one, regardless of who is to blame.
Parent
Theres a more important conflict to be solved in Zimbabwe, the governments didnt act there and they're not going to act here.
Parent
Here's a novel idea, dissolve power and influence away from the tribes (let the politicians stand be and held accountable on merit, not on which tribe they happen to be in/from).

Look at European royalty (and the upper class to an extent) and how its influence has been completely eroded away.You can't have sub-systems of power within democracy, without someone being pissed off.
Parent
We just need to throw an atomic bomb on Africa and then we can start rebuilding again. What we're doing now is useless, we're wasting our time and our money!
but you'd kill plekter :(
Parent
YOUR time? YOUR money? Not to talk about advising a genocide, like wtf?
Parent
Dont bomb them because our part of the world fails to understand what needs to be done. All those morons giving money to them which just goes into the pockets of the guirillas leading the countries. Invest in their business instead, cut the customs on the food they ship.
Parent
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