New Anti-Cheat Method?

The largest and most annoying problem are the cheaters, everyone knows that. Also something more annoying then that is that PBBans have registered around 40,000 bans, but seriously, who thinks they have decreased the amount of cheaters?

So my idea is, using the help of Crossfire/CB mainly:

Bringing back the old system Crossfire Public / Telenet used. Register your pbguid with Crossfire, which will then make it easier to see vs who your are playing. Also... people who get pbbanned / banned from CB shoudn't be allowed to play on these servers, remember we want these servers to be clean as possible, so how can we stop them from doing this? ETpro guid sucks balls, PBGuid is not bad, but it can be changed manually...

so basically, anyone with new pbguids cannot play on these servers (this is in the new rule of CB, ppl with pbguid's not older than 3/4 weeks cannot play, to stop this pbguid laming)

or else, but it will be somewhat difficult maybe? ET-ACE (which will be 100times stronger than anti3) will have all these features in it which can also read the MAC-ADDRESS of each player, i'm sure 90% of the players don't have any idea about how to change their MAC-Address, so hopefully banning the MAC will be as good as hardware bans.

Yes i know you can change your MAC Address, but remember once you will register it with crossfire, you cannot change it until you give valid proof for as to change it. (so cheaters cannot use the "restart" "format" "new hd" "hdd crash" "new pc" excuse for nothing)

So for one to play on these server, the new etpro/a-c will have to check if your

- pbguid
- etpro guid
? mac address?


will match with your profile. if they don't, cheater can have fun looking at the "Connection Refused Screen"
Comments
173
ET-ACE will split up the scene and make it even more inactive. But the older telenet initiative is great
sucky idea tbh, its ruins my privacy
btw thanks for trying to save et!!11
taking blood from athletes for dope testing is a privacy issue too, and noone whines about it
Parent
'care, dont mix sugar with shit , its the internets not real life
Parent
exactly. so how can your internet privacy be more precious than the real life one?
Parent
i value them on the same scale
Parent
So if you don't have problems with the real life example Superboy gave then why are you having problems with this proposition righ here, you're a hypocrit..
Parent
Just get a cheater lifetime banned!
new etpro guid + new pbguid + new ip adress + new nick + new accoutn on every site = unbanned :D
Parent
okei im whit you !
Lets play
i agree.
gtfo malta
MAC spoofing np as mentioned above and if the user can´t do it, the new MAC-spoofers in the cheats will do it...
Remember, you still have to register your MAC ADDRESS with Crossfire, and that doesn't change after:

"restart"
"format"

so once you register you mac adress, you cannot change it (unless you join a new isp??)
ok I found something in the i-net

50 secs of searching :D

This utility will spoof your hard drive information in order to prevent the
control freaks of EvenBalance from enforcing their stupid hardware bans. PB
may also ban you by the MAC address of your network interface card, in which
case all you need to do is find one of the many MAC address spoofers.

so mac adresses plan is dead
Parent
hmm, how about your computer's HardWare hash?
Parent
that might be cool
Parent
its the system netCoders use to run your bot, so it must be good :D
Parent
XDXDXD so I have to agree with you
Parent
but I checked google to understand how it works :<
Parent
mac adress is easily spoofed
Parent
UNLESS YOU JOIN A NEW ISP!??!!?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!!?!?

People like you should not be allowed to make any decisions about things like this because your technical knowledge is not just below average, it's fucking disgraceful. You never know what you're talking about with regards to things like this, and you just proved it once again.

Even simple programs like hamachi, have been known to fuck with your mac address. Not to mention there are many valid reasons for changing/spoofing when dealing with certain solutions/programs.

Basically what you are suggesting here is that you want to force everyone that plays ET to not be able to modify their software and hardware in ways that are perfectly legit, which is fucking ridiculous and I, and the rest of the educated crossfire community will never support it.


The only good idea is the crossfire-pbguid system (used with a program similar to yawn) which may be too much effort. But also, going so far as to force servers to use it, that's ridiculous too.
Parent
you can always play on a normal server if you think its ridicioulous, cheaters don't seem to effect you very much.
Parent
Clearly you didn't read what I said. It will be mass-boycotted by everyone with an education. Most of your EC players have an education. How do you expect to enforce this if the best players in the game aren't using it?

You are arguing that if somebody changes their mac address for a perfectly legitimate reason, or a program like hamachi changes it for them, that they should be brandished a cheater? Well fuck you.
Parent
since you installed linux, you have learn too much :(
Parent
even retards have human rights! :)
nice defending cheaters , ban
Parent
lol u can change mac @ windows networksettings
obviously it's possible, but you can only change it manually aka by yourself. so if you change it you'll be banned from the servers mentioned by killerboy.
Parent
i really doubt that!
Parent
it´s your real MAC, type in another one :)
Parent
what happened to the windows settings tab? :)
Parent
closed it :P

btw u can use only A-F and 0-9
Parent
That´s clear. Relating to XP-forums it seems to be in fact possible, but not on all network-cards.

At mine it doesn´t work.

kthxbye :)
Parent
u are obviously leet
Parent
cant belif that i dont know u we live so close together im sure i must have seen u! please gimme a pic :D!
Parent
argh
nuub! and u dont know me? im blonde long curly hair :D
Parent
ludwig told me!:D
im sure i've seen u somewhere
Parent
hiw du ju look? random or spezial liek me :D
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random russian 8-D
lul its raining
Parent
yes and its tatüüüüüüüütataaaaaa to the flugahven?
Parent
how about a hardware ban from PB to cheaters? if you give proofs to evanbalance etc
hw bans are useless since there are hw spoofers (mac spoofer, hdd volume changer etc)
Parent
yes and they will understand how to spoof hardware...
Parent
click on "CHANGE" and taaataaaa
Parent
just call the police with proof that the guy is hacking :D:D:D:D
Parent
carepolice is going to destroy his pc :D::D:DD
Parent
So how is this ET-ACE thing going on? Any reply from Bani? I can't see this successful unless it's implemented into etpro.
they sent him anti3 only, and he told them anti3 does not cover enough stuff, so now they sent him the whole etace project which, according to chaplja is 100 times stronger than anti3, i can confirm this, cos in the last 2 months he has worked very hard with the a-ce
Parent
Do you actually go to school or have a job killerboy?
ye cheatbuster
Parent
Says a guy that sits on crossfire non-stop @ his work... -_-
Parent
Yes,but at least im in work
Parent
when wolfenstein will be released,there wont be any enemy territory players anymore
Quote i'm sure 90% of the players don't have any idea about how to change their MAC-Address

not everybodys like u pls...
As long it won´t be Quakewars 2 :)
Parent
A good step would be permanent IP-Bans but unfortunetley there are many ISPs with dynamic IPs.
IP-spoofing is not that easy...
i can change my ip. I just need to turn my router off and on :\ this isnt a good idea. IMO BAN SUBNET MAKS!
Parent
read again!
Parent
i readed :P just wanted to re-force the idea that ip bans doesnt work :\ Only 10% (?) of etplayers have static ip (atleast at portugal )
Parent
same in ger (or less than 10%), just wanted to point out it would be a good method, changing your ISP everytime you get a ban would be somehow annoying...
Parent
idd :) but dynamic ips are really important (ipv4) and this wont change till ipv6 :|
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QuoteI was thinking

I stopped reading there.
Quote confo on 07/08/08, 15:33:13


I stopped reading there.
Parent
Cheaters are more nice irl than non-cheaters.
ya sure look at kenta
Parent
ace from Casino knew how to deal with cheaters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRK-CQVQevQ
watched yesterday (Y) :D
Parent
the mac address idea doesn't sound too bad, but is it possible that the mac address changes without changing it manually by yourself?
I mean for example if you maybe format your harddrive that the mac address changes automatically.
i have used my pc/isp for 5 years now and i still have the same MAC-ADDRESS, so imo anyone who wants to change = because he's banned.
Parent
The MAC address is deposited in your hardware (ROM on network card) and is worldwide unique.
Parent
Mac spoof :\

Anyway some ideas:

QuoteThe concept is simple, the chipset records all input from the keyboard and mouse, and the game does the same. If the two don't match, something is giving inputs to the game that should not be, and you are 'cheating'. This is how most of the common hacks out there work.

As was said earlier, this could catch game cheats as well as click fraud, but could also help notify users of spyware and trojans. In general, if something emulates input, this should flag it.

I have my doubts about it's real world effectiveness, anything that is a standard defense is vulnerable to a standard crack. To make matters worse, the more effective it is, the higher priority it is to crack, be it for fame or for money.

In the end, I think this may do some good, but I don't think it will be foolproof. The internet is very good at breeding a better class of fools far quicker than the hardware update cycle. µ



QuoteThe fundamental premise behind the Fair Online Gaming technology research is that platform hardware can help detect cheating in online games. If this technology makes its way into PCs, gamers who want to play without cheaters can choose to turn it on and play with other gamers that also turn the technology on in their systems. The Fair Online Gaming technology itself is a collection of hardware, firmware and game software running on client PCs and servers. In our labs, we’ve tested the concept’s effectiveness at detecting entire classes of cheating, not just specific cheats. This means that if this research were incorporated in a future PC, any present or future cheat that alters input device data or network traffic would be detected. This is done through deterministic algorithms that do not generate false positives – Intel’s technology uses no heuristics that might result in a highly skilled player being incorrectly labeled a cheater. This means that expert players can use this technology to help prove to others that they are winning based on skill alone.

The fact that the system relies on hardware makes it more difficult for hackers to circumvent it. This does not mean it is crack-proof. Circumventing the Fair Online Gaming technology is certainly possible, but doing so would be substantially more difficult than cheating on today’s PCs. For example, cheating in certain ways while Intel’s Fair Online Gaming technology was turned on would likely require the cheater to obtain additional hardware and ‘mod’ their PC. This makes cheating more expensive and ties a cheat to an individual PC.

The effect of these higher equipment and time costs to cheat is that fewer people would be cheating when participants elected to turn the Intel Fair Online Gaming technology on.

If Fair Online Gaming technology were incorporated in future PCs, it could give gamers:

* Opt-in anti-cheat – Turn it on to play with others playing fair, but if you want to cheat or don’t care about others cheating, turn it off and play with the other cheaters
* Fewer undetected people cheating in games where people agree to play fair
* Winners that are winning through skill, and skillful players not being labeled cheaters
* A hardware based solution that is more difficult to circumvent


QuoteCheats such as aimbots or "wall hacks" that expose players lying in wait send data to online gaming servers in unnatural patterns that could be detected by other PCs connected to the same server, Schluessler said. PCs equipped with this technology would notify a server that someone in the game is using a cheat, and then the game administrator could set a policy of kicking the cheat offline or some high-tech method of saying "nyeh, nyeh, cheater cheater," shaming the cheater and warning other gamers not to enter into sessions with that particular player.


about intel anti cheat system
In the past year I wrote that first idea about the input like 2/3 times and nobody listened -.-' (made it up myself btw, didn't steal it from intel :P)
Parent
ET IS DEATH
your english as well
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I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG
Parent
Must agree with you :)
Parent
I remember back in the days when someone cheated he got some ban, what was it called? It was like that cheater couldnt play on pb serv or something :o (DIDNT READ THAT JOURNAL LOLZ :-D)
What happened to that?
Parent
easy to remove ;/
Parent
you can spoof MAC-Addresses
Parent
hardware ban?
Parent
hardware pb ban
Parent
It's not like MAC address spoofing is a very easy process on some Ethernet cards, as far as i know

And I for one wouldn't want to give up so many shit which is supposed to be private to some extent to someone else just to play a game of ET, it's like giving a hacker the IP to your computer and close down your firewall so he can go straight ahead
Your Crossfire Profile is private, what i would like is something like the pbguid system in your profile, but with your etpro guid + mac-address. so only TosspoT will know (i think). What the server will show you is the players Crossfire Profile name
Parent
Sorry but that doesn't change anything.
Parent
Many people (probably) do it allready by connecting to nC-trackers n stuff...
Parent
well i found out some "ways" how my mac adress changed on my laptop @school:

new hub/Switch
new network-card
new wirless lan card

but i think that was only some bug.

Mac-adress changing isn´t hard.. 5 mins to google and around 5 clicks (download,extract,run it,click on "change", close the programm). but if ppl need to register it with corssfire & stuff it would be rly nice.


btw: cb sucks, esl too ! maybe some totally new page comming out soon :o and maybe there is a way to add some features to support your idea. pm me then

i also tried to find out some ways to stop cheaters and multis. anaconda and me had some rly nice ideas for the new league.. methods which aren´t rly used anywhere else and are very effective.
there should be a 2 week time limit to register these addresses and guids. if they change (without any valid reason that you bought a new network card or smth) outside this 2week registration period, though luck, go play on normal servers... only cheaters need to change their mac adress and guids.


edit: what are these methods you discussed with anaconda?
Parent
won´t tell that public for sure !
its liek telling nc: hello we gonna secure our defense with that methode.. u got 1 month or so until the project is finished so already start bypass it !
Parent
you got kicked for GameHook, so i better not trust you
Parent
aha k
Well ET is a game i like and thats also why i try to support it by getting a new league/cup which supports ET and isn´t bullshit like ESL & CB (thats what 90% of the community says). As i also want to stop hackers that league got alot of methods to stop them. And if u want you can talk to anaconda. he is one of the main coders. He got some methode to stop proxys or get the real ip-adress (even suport über lvl 5 ELite proxys dont work :o )

So if i or we (anaconda,eicher,h3ll,sil,beAsty so far) can be sure u won´t publish that method somewhere and tell around how it works we could propably also help you. But if we do that i think its the only one method we gonna tell others so far.
Parent
but how can it be usefull with ET?
Parent
hackers can´t register twice
if someone uses a proxy its getting dedected & admin get warned. and i also know the real ip

well its mainly jsut a "addon" to other methods to prevent multis (= hackers which regiser again after the got busted)
Parent
what about the polaks that have dynamic ip's?
Parent
I though you don't care about poles and just want to ban every poles. Was i wrong?
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Quote(without any valid reason that you bought a new network card or smth)

lol you gonna have people scan in their receipts?
Parent
only takes 4 minutes :D
Parent
There are too many manholes in this project anyway, as using this method would restrict f.e. Azatej to play (because he's permanently banned from Crossfire) and not only him but several other players as well (Y). Same goes for people who HAVE to use proxies to connect to Crossfire, or people switching between homes often (divorced parents for example)
lol why did he get permanently banned
Parent
Annoying the admins I think.
Parent
Tad more extreme than that :O))
Parent
Annoying admins doesn't matter with playing ET, the admins will be reasonable (i hope)
Parent
well there could be some "crossfire community ban" and some "playing ban" then.

and about switching.. well there could be some "contract" with admins that he often siwtches pc.. and as los the player isn´t suspicious there isn´t a real prob.
Parent
I think that there would be no problem to put some kind of [x] Ban GUID option before banning from Crossfire ..
Parent
Besides that mac addresses can be spoofed, they don't have to be unique, the chances are very little you find two cards with the same address though.
MAC_address

they are unique, if they are not spoofed...
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QuoteBesides that mac addresses can be spoofed


DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Parent
Gief ET on zeh xbox360.. cheatless.
everything related to you and CB is a fail, ESL is the way to go
ESL banned me for 2 years, I think otherwise
Parent
whats wrong with that? it might not have been you who cheated, but everything pointed your direction. im pretty sure if you could prove he was indeed your brother with his account and pm chosen about it you would be unbanned, cheaters shouldn't get second chances
Parent
You used etbot too!

BAN
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it was the only way to be one with them:[
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if you manage to run an nC hack i'll give you $324014
Parent
whats so hard about that? gimmy auth and pw and ill do it for you on a non pb server
Parent
won't work anymore, your subnet mask must match with the original user's subnet mask too :(

edit: so anyone who leaks you his nC account to use a bot/test = fail
Parent
dont get your intentions on your first reply, but ''ok''
Parent
Well I want to bet with you that a hack can be hacked too :b! I'm not really up to write a proof of concept though.
Parent
there are more people who know how to spoof mac addy than those who know how to spoof etpro guid
spoofing mac address also works as a very basic etpro guid spoofer!
Parent
I"'m sure 90% of the players don't have any idea about how to change their MAC-Address"

Theres google. And meez.
If I remember correctly, there are a lot of providers (atleast here in Latvia) who attaches IP adresses to computer MAC address. So, if it gets changed - you lose internet connection, and that means you have to call to provider and ask to drop the old one and attach connection to new one. Ofcourse provider (the one I have for example) can ask questions why I want to change it and if the answer is "oh, I just don't like how it looks now" or any other rather lame excuse will lead only to "GTFO mister!". So in the end you'd stay banned. Or atleast that would give die-hard cheaters pretty much of trouble to continue cheating ...
new method:
lifetime ban
Quoteso basically, anyone with new pbguids cannot play on these servers (this is in the new rule of CB, ppl with pbguid's not older than 3/4 weeks cannot play, to stop this pbguid laming)


i have got a new pc at home, it arrived today. (sitting at work, cant wait to get home <.<)
so this means i cant play cb for the next 4 weeks? or am i allowed to play, if i copy my etkey (what i would do so or so)?

---

i like the idea in general with this XF<->CB<->Server thing, but you cant force the people to register here for playing in league? :o
CD, DVD, PENDRIVE, Floppydisk, D:/ Harddrive ect.

and maybe you can register your pbguid on CB soon, like on xfire
Parent
thought registering pbguid at CB was already added :P you has to know as C&A admin.

but better would be to let people upload their etkey file and add a md5 check to compare them. if fiel isn't the same player get kicked with msg "register correct pbguid".

smth like that would be nice, an dif you saved the file at clanbase they can make it downlaodable so if you have a new PB you don't have to remember to back-up etkey.
Parent
the questions is if good doing - anyways RTCW2 is on its way, and when it comes, ET will die fast. So how much time is there to deal with this? 1 year? 2year?

Just think about it..if its all the work good for it
Cause we all know that rtcw will be an instant success, just like all the rest of multiplayer games developed in recent years. Oh, wait...
Parent
why shouldn't it?
Parent
Dude and the guys with O/S vista with the wierd pbguid changes my pbguid just changes all the time and i dont uninstall how about that zLoL! if my pbguid suddenly changes i cant join those servers so ill need to look after my pbguid all the time ?

so wtf....

(im clean and not cheating)
save it on a pendrive? its only 1kb in size

or save it were your config is? make sure you make a password for the etkey
Parent
I have registered my pb guid here one year ago but still no profiles on yawn :)
Use /pb_myguid or so and type the whole line of numbers in your profile
Parent
New anti-cheat system = newer cheats...
to be honest i can imagine this will be nice and buggy, with "some" being too pig headed to even realise there might be problems so hmhmh... role on the bans ¬_¬`
Rtcw2 will be here soon enough so fuck it.
guids are never the answer... eg. my guid changes kinda often without me knowing the reason

just make something like anti3
just do what do you have to do
finger prints
realisticly the only real solution is to make players buy a key from say clanbase/crossfire and then create our own authing server.

basically use the old crossfire pbguid system that is linked to accounts here but instead of pasting in your pbguid you would have to pay to get assigned a key.
wont that effect the 15 year olds who don't have a credit card? :(
Parent
I'm not saying it should be done or will be done, I'm simply saying it's the only way to effectively manage the problem
Parent
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