FUCKINGGGGGGGGGGGGG GLOCk
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2 Nov 2008, 19:54
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Journals
Fucking glock -.-
hamilton won -.-
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hamilton won -.-
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Massa deserved this a hell of a lot more than Hamilton.
If you ask me, any other driver would of gone for the win also instead of sitting back like that.
Pity for Massa tho, he really deserved it. Massa > Hamilton >> Alonso.
It still looks like Glock gave that one to him, who knows though?
edit: talking about Glock
gratz hamilton
-hamilton's team to glock's team, "crash the car, we'll give you 10million euros"
-glock'ts team "k np"
-glock's team radio, "GLOCK STOPENZEN ZE FUCKING CAR NOW"
-hamilton's team radio "Hamilton start crying with joy, we bought the title"
Remind me which team was caught for using ferrari's car plans and other stuff?
oh yes, mclaren.
idiot.
The same thing happened on Belgium in the rain. Some of them tried to finish the race on the dry-tires and others took the extra pitstop to get the wet-tires. Tons of the guys on the wet tires did tremendous times vs the ones on the dry-tires and overtook many spots.
The only luck that Hamilton had today was that he managed to pass him so close to the finishline, but if you think about it, if glock had done the same thing as everyone else, which was to get wet-tires, then he would not have been on that position to begin with and then Hamilton would've still been 5th.
I think both drivers deserved to win the world championship so I didn't care who would win it, and for both it would be something memorable. Hamilton being the youngest worldchampion ever, Massa being the first to win the worldchampionship during a home-race. Would be cool for both. And in the end, the race ends when you pass the checkered flag and it was Hamilton that gathered the most point during this season and thus a deserved champion. End of discussion.
It's a proven fact that favoring or loving something clouds your judgement and many of the Ferrari AND McLaren fanboys have a very subjective opinion about things because of that. But if you simply look at the entire season objectively then the results as they are are the way they should be.
The last lap, glock was slower by like 4 to 5 seconds on most of the people in the first sector and in the second sector he was slower than most of them by about 8 to 9 seconds. In the last sector of that lap he was about 5 to 6 seconds slower so overall in the entire lap he was almost 20 seconds slower than the rest of the cars, simply because he had too much trouble by still driving on the dry-tires.
So I dont get what you mean by saying that he should watch for vettel and hamilton. What do you think he could've done about it and more importantly why?
Edit, at least he could try to defend?:P
Trulli in a Toyota on dry tyres when the rain really started falling on that last lap: 1:44.800.
Get yer facts right u moron.
Why some retard helped
GG Brazil, 1-0 England
His stupid mistakes and luck made him a winner.
Räikkonen is still my champ.
wanted to make some confusion to hamilton so maybe hamilton would have killed himself or something.. :I
UNLUCKY GG
raikkonen = Fintards just like me :I
His 3 penalisations over the season were unjust and should never have been aprehended by the FIA. He would of won the title 2 rounds ago and therefore to still come back and win it and lose 15 points in the process is undoubtably one of the best performances in history.
Well done to Massa for his victory and doing what he had to do. He will be a world champion one day, but his day wasn't today.
Moment of the day: Ferrari and Massa's family jumping up and down untill they were told that Lewis was P5 :D
McLaren hit by constructors' ban
McLaren chief Ron Dennis (centre) was beseiged by the media in Paris
McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors' championship after the outcome of the "spygate" row.
The team were also fined a record $100m (£49.2m), which includes any prize and television money they would have earned from the constructors' championship.
But drivers Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso can keep their points.
The team must also prove there is no Ferrari "intellectual property" in their cars next year before racing.
The decision means Ferrari, who go into this weekend's Belgian Grand Prix second in the constructors' championship, 57 points ahead of third-placed BMW Sauber, are almost certain to be crowned champions.
Having been at the hearing I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputation damaged in this way
McLaren boss Ron Dennis
The row centres on McLaren being in possession of a confidential 780-page technical document belonging to Ferrari.
When he left the hearing, FIA president Max Mosley was asked if justice had been done, and replied "Yes".
A Ferrari statement said: "In light of new evidence, facts and behaviour of an extremely serious nature and grossly prejudicial to the interest of the sport have been further demonstrated.
"Ferrari is satisfied that the truth has now emerged."
The World Motor Sport Council said it would publish the reasoning behind its verdict on Friday.
And McLaren team chief Ron Dennis said he would wait until then before deciding whether to appeal.
"We believe we have grounds for appeal but of course we are going to wait for the findings of the FIA which are going to be published," Dennis explained.
"The most important thing is that we go motor racing this weekend, the rest of the season and next season."
606: DEBATE
The right verdict? Have your say
Although he was clearly relieved that the team could continue racing, Dennis was understandably upset at what he saw as the besmirching of the team name.
"Having been at the hearing I do not accept that we deserve to be penalised or our reputation damaged in this way," he said.
"Today's evidence given to the FIA by our drivers, engineers and staff clearly demonstrated we did not use any leaked information to gain a competitive advantage.
"The WMSC received statements from Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Pedro de la Rosa stating categorically no Ferrari information had been used by McLaren, and that no confidential data had been passed to the team.
"The entire engineering team in excess of 140 people provided statements to the FIA affirming they had never received or used the Ferrari information.
"We have never denied that the information from Ferrari was in the personal possession of one of our employees at his home.
Lewis Hamilton and team-mate Fernando Alonso keep their points
"The issue is: was this information used by McLaren? This is not the case and has not been proven."
At the first hearing into the row, on 26 July, McLaren got off without punishment, but another hearing was convened after new evidence emerged, and that led to the points deduction and huge financial penalty.
Three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart believes there is more information to be made public.
"All I can say, without being in full command of all of the information, is that the offence must be considerably larger than has been projected either by the governing body of the sport or within the media," he told BBC Radio 5live.
"This isn't murder that has been carried out, this is something that has happened before and there wasn't even a fine or disciplinary action taken by the same governing body.
"There is something very strange going on, there is no doubt about that.
"From what information we have been given so far, this does not constitute a penalty of this scale with regards to the crime that has been carried out.
"And even if they were found guilty of that particular crime, it doesn't justify this kind of penalty."
Once a cheater always a cheater applies to IRL too
Please show me their recent drug tests!!! I'm sure they were all ok ;)
1. Nigel Stepney (ferrari engineer) shares information with Mike Coughlan (McLaren engineer)
2. The wife of the McLaren engineer copies it in a copyshop
3. The copyshop owner sees that it's Ferrari documents and notifies the Ferrari Italy HQ
4. Ferrari found out, and fires Stepney and files a formal complaint.
5. After it's been brought to daylight McLaren suspends Coughlan.
6. Ferrari starts a case against both engineers.
7. Ferrari reaches an agreement to drop the case agains the McLaren engineer if he and his wife cooperate and tell them all they know.
8. There is no evidence that any of the information in the documents was used on the McLaren car.
9. McLaren states that nobody on the McLaren team apart from Coughlan himself has had the documents in their possesion or seen them.
10. McLaren gets fined 100 million dollars and is stripped from their constructors points
Besides point 2 and 3 being quite debatable, where is the punishment for Ferrari? Their engineer was the one that all started it in the first place and yet it's the McLaren team and not the McLaren engineer that has to bite the biscuit for it. In my opinion both teams had rotten apples in it and the most rotten apple was Stepney to even start to share information with another team. So you tell me why the results of this affair are justified. Why McLaren deserved a punishment and Ferrari did not. OR better yet, why ANY of both teams deserves a punishment instead of imprisoning both engineers?
Back to the Ferrari/McLaren case: Stepney stole documents and handed them to Coughlan. The reason why McLaren got punished for it in the end is because they first denied knowing about this deal. Then they said it was a one man action from Coughlan (hence why they fired him). But in the end it appeared that several people within the team knew about it and had looked into the documents. That's why the FIA punished McLaren with the sidenote that if any parts of the documents would appear on the 2008 McLaren, they would be punished even more.
But lets take another example. You run a company lets name it "A". One of your employees takes classified information from your company and gives it to someone who works for company "B". Who should get first blame. 1. Employee of Company A? 2. Employee of company B? or 3. Company B?
Answer 3 simply doesn't make any fucking sense. It should've been answer 4. Imprisonment of both employees for conspiring in industrial espionage and a conditional punishment that if it was proven that Company B had used the information the conditional punishment would be handed out.
Answer 3 was taken which is in my opinion the wrong one.
But anyway, we've had discussion about McLaren vs Ferrari before and they never lead to anything. I'm not a mclaren fanboi but you obviously are a ferrari fanboi and as it's proven that ppl simply never have an objective opinion with regards to things they love, I'm going to end the discussion here.
The FIA didn't punish McLaren immediately, but after a thorough investigation they concluded that Coughlan was only the tip of the iceberg. If you really are such an expert on formula 1 as you claim to be, you should know that espionage is a delicate matter in formula 1. Teams will do whatever it takes both legally and illegally. That's why the FIA didn't take this lightly.
Furthermore, it's a bit low to play the "I'm a typical Ferrari fanboy" card. Like you're Mr. Objectivity yourself. I don't deny that Ferrari is my favorite team, but that doesn't mean that I entirely lose my objectivity or my knowledge of the facts. Looking at how you prefer to attack Ferrari all the time. I think you're more lead by some kind of rage against Ferrari than you think.
Let me break that quote down as objectively as possible:
1. McLaren denies knowing about it.
2. McLaren says it was a one mac action (which is still the same as point 1)
3. Hence why they fired him. (Well they fucking better! That's about the only good thing that both teams did in this case)
4. BUT in the end it appeared that several people at McLaren knew about it and had seen the documents.
I don't know where you got this quote but besides the usual subjective sidenotes (point 1, 2 and 3), the only information in there is that it states that "in the end it appeared that", which in itself doesn't even state anything as fact. Who saw what exactly? I bet you, as I, don't have the answer to that.
Then as a last note, it's not low to play the "you are a ferrari fanboi" card, or at least I did not mean it as a demeaning thing. It's just comon knowledge that a love for something clouds a person's judgement. And in my opinion it does in your case. I don't have a rage against Ferrari, nor do I have a love for McLaren. I simply think that the FIA is a biased organisation.
Should McLaren be punished for the espionage? Hell no. Should Ferrari? Hell no, wtf ofcourse not. Should both engineers (and a couple guys over at renault and possibly Honda) be fired and jailed for industrial espionage? Hell yes.
youtube comment, what do you think about it lol
I agree with you that the FIA isn't the most consequent organization. They often put themselves into difficult situations by simply not having the rules straightened out for every possible situation. Because teams like to bend the rules, the FIA has to play referee more than they want. But every team or driver can pick examples of decisions in favour of them but also against them that were a bit odd.
Back to the McLaren espionage case. The quote I posted was not an exact quote, but still a good summary of what the FIA investigation concluded. So the reasons you identified as my subjective sidenotes are in fact objective conclusions of the FIA.
1. At first McLaren denied everything about documents, which is normal, but it made them look bad when the rumors appeared to be the truth.
2. McLaren admitted that something was going on and acted on it by firing Coughlan for accepting documents
4. Of course nobody can prove who saw what, but it's not a court. It's highly doubtfull that Coughlan accepted the documents to build his own formula 1 car. If several people knew about it, it's a normal assumption that they actually planned on using it or at least had looked into it if it would be usefull in any way.
So looking at this, the decision to punish McLaren wasn't strange at all. The FIA probably wanted to set an example to avoid similar problems in the future. That's why the punishment was rather big.
In my opinion they should've punished McLaren by giving them a $10 million dollar fine. 100 million was a bit too much and taking away their constructors points only had cosmetic consequences for the history books. The main reason why I think the punishment was too much is simply because espionage is part of formula 1. McLaren did cross the line, but before all teams flirted with crossing the line. Every team has people who look at opponents cars to see what's new. Besides that the most "legal" way to steal designs is by simply buying personnel from other teams. You can't prevent it and you also can't erase their memory.
Aaaaaaaaaaaanyway, you triggered quite a discussion there Mr. Ronner :D As always the real truth is probably somewhere in the middle: the FIA probably favours Ferrari more than I think and less than you think. And despite your lowskillness when it comes to formula 1 ;-) you're still my favorite crossfire admin <3
I don't think the rumours being true made them look bad. If someone comes to your family and says "You have my dairy!" and then your dad says "What? No we don't" and after further investigating he finds out that your sister indeed has the dairy and then gets punished for it by your dad". Does that make your family look bad or does that make your sister look bad? If McLaren initially didn't know about Coughlan having done anything then ofcourse they will say "we don't know anything" and after finding out that Coughlan did do something then ofcourse McLaren will fire him, which they also did. But the important part is what you said yourself "Ofcourse nobody can prove who saw what, but it's not a court". We are talking 100 million dollars here so there better be some evidence that other McLaren personel other than Coughlan saw or used the documents.
I'm simply of the opinion that FIA punished this wrong. You simply can't white-out the fact that a Ferrari engineer was just as much involved in this and just as (if not more cuz he initiated it) guilty. The Teams should not have been punished but instead Coughlan and Stepney should've been sued for industrial espionage. That was not the path FIA chose, but they chose to punish one of the two involved teams which simply isn't fair judgement.
And the last correction. I'm not a crossfire admin :P
I would be curious for that lap of Glock, I hope someone will put it to YouTube or so...
Trulli in a Toyota on dry tyres when the rain really started falling on that last lap: 1:44.800.