esperanto

by GreenClon • 12 Dec 2008, 20:16 • Journals
Have you ever heard about artifical language? Because it is what esperanto is. What is it for? Well, it would be much better to speak esperanto than english. It has many advantages. Like its much easier to learn, much more neutral..
So why dont we speak it? :/
What do you think about it? Would you like to be idea of neutral internationl realised?

www.lernu.net
Comments
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Klapp 12 Dec 2008, 20:19
why dont we all speak C++
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:23
Probably because of we arent PC's? :D
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dEFiX 12 Dec 2008, 20:31
b/c assembler is easier
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woot 12 Dec 2008, 20:19
it would be nice if everyone speaks the same language

BUT THAT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN :(
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OfficerCohen 12 Dec 2008, 20:21
BABELON ALL OVER AGAIN :p
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:23
why do you think its not gonna happen? why shouldnt it?
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MarlonBrando 12 Dec 2008, 20:19
the idea was that everybody in the world shiould learn this language. for easy communication, would help out economy and such. didnt work in practice. would contain elements of arabic, english,... but not all could pronounce those words etc. big fail
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:22
1,easy to learn
2,easy to pronounce :D
3,contains elements of every language I know :o

yeah,didnt work in practice.. why? it is hard to force ppl to suddenly start to speak "new" language.. but.. it would be much better then..
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slajdan 12 Dec 2008, 21:01
But religious people would NEVER accept it tbh, and whole america is religious.
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:06
where's the connection between religion and language?
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slajdan 12 Dec 2008, 21:11
Ever heard of babylon?
IMHO, everything is connected to everything the line between them vary in size.
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:19
i doubt that even americans would refer to the tower of babel, tho they would find other ways to refuse esperanto :p
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:21
babylon? yes,ofc.. do you think,that if we have spoken esperanto, there will be another babylon?
anyway,i dont mean that we should give up languages we were born with.. absolutely not!
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slajdan 12 Dec 2008, 21:47
Uhm, have you read the bible? God punished the humans by giving them diffrent languages because if they could speak the same language then nothing would be impossible(like building a tower to god).
I bet they think that we would be punished even harder if we tried it again.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:54
didnt read whole bible, but was attending religious basic school, so i know whats going on. but 1,we will still have our native languages 2,if we have learned from our mistake - building tower into the sky to ??kill god?? - we could make from world much better place xD
btw i am atheist ;)
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slajdan 12 Dec 2008, 22:04
Well, im an agnostic, but my interpretation of it is that we are not ment to know everything, because that would destroy us.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:05
so are you against science at all?
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slajdan 12 Dec 2008, 22:37
No, it was only my interpretation of some parts of the biblical stories, I am quite sure that all this religious stuff is more or less only made to be able to control the people.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:45
yes,i can agree with you. religion is to force people be calm,hard work,make them feel they are part of "something bigger" and to explain yet unknown phenomenas
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dinev 12 Dec 2008, 20:23
no quiero esperanto ..es muy facil de aprender pero todo el mundo habla ingles
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:25
what? :o
you edited but i still dont understand :D
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Mistfits 12 Dec 2008, 20:36
he said that we don't need esperanto even if it's easy to learn because everybody speaks english

but not frenchies (like me) tbh
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:39
ok,thanks mistfits i understand (just <3 him..)
as i said, esperanto has many advantages instead of english..
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perforator 12 Dec 2008, 20:25
Why learn a new language if everyone can speak English anyway.
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seconddd 12 Dec 2008, 20:30
Idd. French, Arabic and other egoists should all learn English
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:31
why?
1,it will be much easier for future generations to learn
2,its neutral (or much more neutral than english)
3,wont infiltrate to native languages in countries and damage them (imo)
.
.
.
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 20:26
because it's not as neutral as you may think
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:31
isnt it? so tell me more about your opinion..
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:14
it still favors some languages about the others
esperanto is largely based on romance languages, afterwards on english and german, while the amount of words from other european languages is little and there's almost no non-european influence except the words which are already contained in the mentioned languages :)
from my own point of view:
for me as a speaker of a germanic language, it's easier to learn english than a non-language, i enjoy learning english while i always hated learning french and i think it would be the same for esperanto, if not even worse
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:24
esperanto is aslo based on spanish,latin and many more.. ofc,it has to have root somewhere..
but when this language would be "above" others in international comms, still there would be difference.. behind all other languages are nations.. here arent
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:29
Quoteesperanto is largely based on romance languages...

spanish and latin are romance languages, which originate from europe :p
Quotebehind all other languages are nations.. here arent

you know that esperanto takes its words from existing languages?
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:37
my language (czech) is kind of slovenian.. and i can learn esperanto easily too
ad2-yes i know. i meant.. behind esperanto arent milions of people who has it as a native language.. nor countries where it is spoken
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:49
well, probably because you already know english :)
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:52
probably. probably not.. who knows? :D
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im a tree 12 Dec 2008, 20:35
IM LEARNING JAPANESE SORRY I MEAN &#26085;&#26412;&#35486;&#12288;(DOSE SYMBALS MEAN NIHONGO WHICH IS JAPANESE FOR JAPANESE XDDDDD ITS SO KAWAII OR &#21487;&#24859;&#12356;
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:36
oh please,care? :D
I am learning more languages too.. but esperanto isnt japanese :<
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 20:39
And you're a dick butt who doesn't get a joke.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:40
still better than beeing nazi !
pics on your cf says all
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LethalChicken 12 Dec 2008, 20:37
uh, people in arabic countries can speak english quite well... all the people from the states west of lithuania write/speak english like shit

also why learn a new language if everyone knows how to speak in english...

e: reply to secoNdat
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:42
as i told many times.. esperanto is better than english in many ways..
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 20:49
Except that Esperantonia never had an Empre, dipshit.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 20:51
what empre? well,if you dont want to speak esperanto, try to speak english :X
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 20:56
The reason why English is as popular as it is because England had an Empire at one point and hence was spreading its language by sword and musket. I don't see Esperanto being forcefully introduced to any country, so I don't see it gaining importance any time soon. Esperanto is a scientific idea by a Russian (if I remember correctly, can't be arsed to google right now) and just like many other scientific ideas it sounds good in theory but will not work out in reality.

And never accuse me of being unable to speak English ever again, twat.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:05
I wont never accuse you, just if in case, you will never say nonsenses.. :P
In past, languages spoken all over the world were changing.. I mean greece,latin.. now it is england.. and what does it mean, that we speak english? It means that we all agree with domination of english speaking countries (most England + USA).. if we had neutral language, all countries would be more equal
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:20
I think the least concerns of suppressed nations derive from their language. International institutions hire hundreds and thousands of interpreters to make that difference vanish. And infact, I see forcing every culture to talk that language would reflect a greater sense of oppression than agreeing on a language that has been spoken internationally for decades.

+ The reason why "dominated" countries that don't have a wide understanding of the English language lack proper education, and that is nothing a language like Esperanto will fix. Don't get me wrong, when I first heard of Esperanto I liked the idea as well, but once I spent some minutes thought on it, it turned not only to be totally irrelevant what language we speak as long as we all speak the same, but also did I see no chance in it being changed. It's the same as with saying "In 50 years everyone will have to speak Chinese". It's total bullshit, as you won't get all the industrial nations to learn Chinese on instant and neither will they have the power to make us do so, because let's face it: All their sweatshops are belong to us!
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:27
there have been many international languages changes in past. it would be just one more. but it surely wouldnt be bigger tyrany than to force them to learn english
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Nellie 12 Dec 2008, 21:29
Nobodies forced to learn English.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:33
if you want to communicate with people all over the world - you are forced to.
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Nellie 12 Dec 2008, 21:53
Nah you chose to, be it for economical or social benefit. Perfect, the natural evolution of language and people. Not some stalinist enforced 'central language'
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:59
i cant chose. i cant chose e.g french when i want to talk with american guy
central language.. dunno why do you connect it with stalin. it hasnt anything in common with economy (well,btw.do you think EU is stalinist?) or connecting countries
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Nellie 12 Dec 2008, 22:04
The terms been bastardised in the UK, meant authoritarian :O)

You can chose to do business with the French, not the American. It's all about choice 'n the most practical / strongest will come through. Government shouldn't needlessly curtail choice.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:08
but you would have to learn many languages to do so.
1,you probably wont want to have business with just one country
2,without speaking language before, you can never chose country best for having bussiness
its really better to have some language widely spoken
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Nellie 12 Dec 2008, 22:11
And there is... English, selected by the market, by the people. Why change to some unnecessary artificial language?

I don't like the idea of government enforcing anything beyond what is absolutely necessary. If a new language is necessary, it'll develop, jargon already is.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:13
its not sellected by people nor market.. it was chosen in history by economical/army supermacy of UK/(US)
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:29
Not since colonialisation and especially internationalisation/globalisation to be honest.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:34
try to think about how long was latin spoken
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:51
And that's the reason why English won't be removed any time soon as well. Romans went out to Greece and Africa and Gaul and so on and colonised until the entire Roman Empire collapsed. The difference is, though, that communication plays a significantly bigger role nowadays than it did in Roman times and hence it is more important for everyone to rely on a common, stable language. Bear in mind that until a few decades ago there was no such thing as "correct spelling".
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:02
Quote..communication plays a significantly bigger role nowadays than it did in Roman times ..

you are absolutely right.. its why we should have better language to speak
and as far as i can, now we are more "civilizated" - so we can CHOOSE, not to be pressed to something
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 22:09
You learn your Esperanto then, I'll stick to English.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:16
:D np :D
its just about opinions.. I wanted to know what people think about it.. tbh i expected more positiv than it appeard.. I agree with fact that it would be really hard to change it now,and that is not necessary to change.. on the other side you should agree with fact, esperanto have some advantages..
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evan 12 Dec 2008, 20:55
The problem when advocating one language over another is the fact that all languages are artificial, and neutral. If you want to select a language because it has no socio-historical baggage then an artificial language like Esperanto is great, but what advantages do you get from throwing away thousands of years worth of culture?

You can't ignore the fact that even artificial languages have creators. People will justify their exclusion because Samenhof was Polish. You simply cannot escape the social aspect of language because it's a social institution itself, and an extension of societies - inclusive.

Just for the record, however, Esperanto is not much easier to learn than English. There are two reasons for this: (1) English has huge cultural power and prestige: (2) English is not only the best language in the world, but Esperanto actually works in similar ways.

Advocating Esperanto over English would be the most redundant thing you could do linguistically.
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:02
(1) *cough* had *cough* ;)
(2) Because it's based on ancient Roman dialects just like most of the Central European languages which have promoted each of their cultures due to colonialism and therefore spread it throughout the world.
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evan 12 Dec 2008, 21:29
1. English is spoken in 115 countries. French, which is second, is spoken in 35 countries. Mandarin - which I assume is your suggestion - well, it doesn't even come close. The number of native speaker has no relation to the usefulness or prestige of a language.

2. You're way off. English is not a romance language like French, Italian, Portuguese or Spanish. It's Germanic - like German, Dutch or even more obscure languages like Afrikaans or Yiddish. Though, they're all in the Indo-European group.

Colonisation is only one reason why English is widely spoken. But, why for example, did a former French colony in Africa change its official language to English in October? Why did English become the language of the US when they were actually one of the last European powers in the country?
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:45
1. (1) was ironic. What I intended to say was that the fact that English is so widely spread is because it was prestigious when England had their colonies. And like I said in some other comment I don't see English lose its spot to Mandarin or any other language any time soon anyway.

2. I was inaccurate and wrong in (2), I admit, but it's a fact their heavily influenced each other and have more in common than probably other languages, e.g. Slavic languages. And about your "obscure languages": Yiddish originally originated from Middle High German as well as well as Afikaans was brought to South Africa by Dutch colonialists, so I don't really see what's so "obscure" about them.

3. I think I made my point 1. so I don't go into any further here, but I have to add that the British Empire was indeed the last ruling power in America before they went independent, so I don't what's so surprising about them speaking English now.

By the way, I enjoy a good discussion that goes beyond the naive "let's all be friends"-drivel by a certain Czech guy
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:47
QuoteBut, why for example, did a former French colony in Africa change its official language to English in October? Why did English become the language of the US when they were actually one of the last European powers in the country?


I dont think anything about French colony, but as i told to nellie.. everyone is forced to speak english.. probably its why he did what he did.
But with the US.. Because US were under control of GB
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:03
Quote(2) English is not only the best language in the world

oh the arrogance... :P
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evan 12 Dec 2008, 21:11
It is. Though, I personally love the way Spanish sounds.
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:17
you can only say that if you let other people think the same way about their languages
e: sry for this poor sentence, sounds wrong somehow
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evan 12 Dec 2008, 21:32
Look past the fact I am English. I can prove, linguistically, why English is a superb language. But, I don't really have to given the fact you're replying to me in English! Goes some way to proving a point. ;)
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:45
i'm sorry, but that sounds almost "nationalistic" to me
you can't say one language is superior above another
and the reason why i'm speaking english is the second world war
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:17
I cant agree with u in fact,that all languages are artifical. Well,it depends on definition of "artifical language". For me, it is language who made one/little group of people.. All other languages came from thousands or millions people.. it was improving,changing etc..
That all languages are neutral? No, they arent! Every language has its background - nation that come from. Nevertheless esperanto has behind itself just idea, neither country, nor people..

ad1-prestige? :D it is just communication barricade
ad2-in similar ways.. well.. its language too.. but is really easier to learn, because its made for beeing easy learnable.. :D have u tried to learn it?
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:25
Quote...Nevertheless esperanto has behind itself just idea, neither country, nor people...

you seem to be a bit naive, there will always be some people in whose opinion that language is created by jews to achieve world dominance and create a new world order.
thats just an example, other people will find other reasons to refuse it
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Nellie 12 Dec 2008, 21:28
Sounds Russian to me o/
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:31
well, i admit i suck at english today
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:32
if you will do everything worldwide, there will be some people unsatisfied.. just because of they like beeing unsatisfied or wtf :D
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snip0 12 Dec 2008, 21:34
that's human nature
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:55
it is what i can absolutely agree with you :)
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evan 12 Dec 2008, 21:49
I don't mean to offend but it would be a waste of my time to disprove your numerous assertions. If you really want to learn how language works then I suggest you spend some time reading Ferdinard de Saussure and Jacques Derrida.

I guarantee if you read even five pages of Saussure you'll cringe at the comment you just wrote.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:56
thank you very much for your recommendation, i will have look on it
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schNee 12 Dec 2008, 20:56
yes heard about i speak it :o
it2easy u just have to understand the others, w/e they language speak

esperanto: freundeskreis!!!!!!
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:09
yes,it is what I am trying to tell all of people here.. its really easy, you just have to force all of them to learn it :<
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CML 12 Dec 2008, 20:58
It is second unrealistic Jewish project. First was communism.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:07
oh, please, such a rubbish :D
get brain first.. english is shit tbh, esperanto would just do international communication much more easier..
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CML 12 Dec 2008, 21:21
You can believe to artificial social experiments or you can look around yourself how world works. Not everything what is written on paper can work in real.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:28
its what i have to agree with. on the other hand, many experiments helped humans to live in bigger comfort..
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rAs_ 12 Dec 2008, 20:58
check lp esperanto from'freundeskreis' as schnee said...
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sAKUNAATTORI 12 Dec 2008, 21:14
That's what we get when scientiest or what ever have too much time. So fucking what if speaking english aint fair to every human in earth, its just the way it is.

+ It would take like years and years to learn it, and im sure there will be plenty of people again whining about esperanto.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:19
scientist = just fucking people who are doing just mess.. its our world man!
esperanto would be making life more easy.. ppl whining about esperanto? mmm.. what do you mean?
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Deactivated5446 12 Dec 2008, 21:33
No offense intended, but face it: nations will always want to cherish their diversity and us Central Europeans aren't even the biggest problem behind this. We have left our nationalism far behind long ago. It's the small nations that will want to keep their culture and ethnicities.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:50
yes, I am still nationalist, and I think its good..or do you think that idea of "one big country" is ok? its ok to be different.
and anyway,do you really think you left nationalism behind you? probably germans did - but i dont know about anyone else..
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PatrickBateman 12 Dec 2008, 21:37
I'd much rather learn Klingon or Elvenspeak.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 21:47
why?
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PatrickBateman 12 Dec 2008, 21:59
So that I can have secret talks with my nerd friends.
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GreenClon 12 Dec 2008, 22:03
unfortunately, esperanto isnt widely spoken, so its nearly the same nowadays :<
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