Goldrush "Bug"

by im a tree • 10 Feb 2009, 17:26 • Journals

[POLL SUGGESTION] scrap that, most people don't know enough about competitive game design to make decisions like this, a cpma-like team would probably be the best way to make this kind of decision

Should the age-old "bug" of the Goldrush tank not moving until it is touched (after a successful build the engineer can be killed and the tank destroyed and the phase is reset) be removed or should it be an actual part of competition?

Should building the tank on Goldrush trigger the second phase (like was originally intended in the map design), or should the bug where you have to wait for the tank to move before the second stage is activated be kept in competition?

I was thinking about this the other day, and such a thing is easy to fix with mapscripts.... so why hasn't it been addressed yet? It clearly wasn't the way the map was designed, and it doesn't exactly add skill to the game. Personally I'm all for limiting elements of luck, and this alone has been responsible for delaying times by 3-4 minutes all because of a few milliseconds, even after the team successfully constructed the tank.

Discuss. Are there any reasons we should keep this bug except "we are used to it"?

The fact that you are rewarded for a "lucky" revive and punished for killing all six axis and building with no threats.... is a fucking JOKE in the eyes of competition.

edit: REWORDED TO AVOID CONFUSION

117

its good as it is now

Needs to be touched just like any vehicle in ET

Ah yeah I forgot, you can build it without being stood next to it for 4 seconds. Silly me.

Parent

4 seconds is exagarating - and yes you do have to stand next to any vehicle for a short period before it moves

Parent

QuoteI think you misunderstood. I don't mean that the tank moves instantly when you are stood next to it, I mean that the next phase spawns are activated the instant the tank is built instead of when the tank eventually moves.

Parent

You didn't mention anything about spawning in the original post

Parent

ok well I worded it terribly

do you think you could share your opinion now you understand what I am proposing?

I'm all for discussion of things, unlike the HURRRRRRR STOP CHANGIN DAH GAME HURRRR I DONT UNDERSTAND COMPETITIVE GAME DESIGN XDDDDDD retards that seem to be taking up the majority of this thread. You seem like you're capable of that so I want to know what you think.

Parent

Yea I agree the spawnbug should be fixed. On the other hand, it's been like that for 6 years so most people don't even see it as a bug anymore. It's part of the game, tactics and competitive play. Too late to change something that doesn't have a huge impact.

Parent

How is delaying a time by a few minutes not a huge impact? :\

Competitive maps are designed to give allies the advantage, it doesn't make sense to leave these milliseconds of luck which can completely change the direction of a game in... It happened twice to us alone vs BB ;_;

Parent

Yes I understand what you are saying but you need consider both sides of the story. Change something that's been there for 6 years, or introduce something new that changes an old map that works well completely. In my opinion, most people don't even identify it as a bug, just part of the game. So changing it would be the wrong decision unless a vote says different.

Parent

This community needs a character like England

arQon. Bani never had the balls to improve gameplay mechanics, I just hope chaplja and quad do.

Parent

I'm pretty sure arQon only made decisions when the community had his side. Don't know much about him but if he made decisions that weren't in the interest of the community, he probably made a few mistakes.

Parent

He's always making decisions that result in community uproar!

Parent

ur mom needs to be touched just like any other vehicle!

Parent

Your mum is being touched right now! In fact my dirty hands are on her right now!!!

Parent

you're making your keyboard dirty

Parent

she sucks clean too no need to worry :P

Parent

good good

Parent

It's because mappers think that the community would rather stay with the old map rather than downloading a new one :(

same with the radar texture bug

Quotesuch a thing is easy to fix with mapscripts

Could be rolled out as part of the Clanbase config?

Parent

don't think donex will make another cb config, will take ages :/

Parent

Honestly, it shouldn't take that long.

And the perfect time to introduce it would be after NC and before OC/EC!

Parent

what texture bug

Parent

when you jump from main entrance to fake radar, you get stuck.

Parent

Should be fixed. btw it´s no texture bug

Parent

It's a design flaw, the ground is slightly tilted and goes below the next textural physic block making a sharp edge and space(and you can squeeze down nades and rifle nades there is you are unlucky enough).

Parent

thats such an anoying one :p

Parent

That one suxs balls :D

Parent

Isn't that the same bug that lets you jump up onto the hill?

Parent

No, it only makes you fail the jump

Parent

eh? can u show me example or place u talking about?

Parent

it sux but we are used to it

should be touched like a 5 year old

rofl

Parent

I think it should move immediately when you're next to it instead of being stuck for another 2 secs (and by that I mean the whole way to the bridge, not only the begining). the rest is ok

I've never really thought about it, but now when I do, I agree with u!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is same for everyone, so it doesn´t matter. You could start to complain about bad spawntimes etc if you keep on going with that logic.

Yeah it's the same for everyone... but rock paper scissors is the same for everyone, and it doesn't automatically mean it is a skilled game.

It really is a case of killing the engi/surrounding players in the milliseconds between a completed build and the tank movement triggering... does it really add anything to the game?

And yes, I can and do complain about bad spawntimes, but I think they do add a little to the game, because if spawns were standardized, or a standardized distance apart there would probably be much less variety in the game. This however adds nothing to variety.

Parent

Don´t get killed while trying to steal the tank. I just don´t realize what is the point to complain about that.

Parent

Need to be removed

Japan agrees

ok for me like it's now

well im used to it anyway, and your sometimes lucky too that you even repair the tank, so you wont remove that much

One of the rage-inducing elements of ET which should definitely be removed.

its good as it is now

hell no, it's part of the map for mee :)

part of the map

"luck elements" XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

leave it the way it is imo.

"luck elements" XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

a revived engi who is unkillable due the spawnshield fixing the tank should be removed :<

your bot doesnt provide that ?:<

Parent

nope, only got a low+ limited edition :(

Parent

awww :P

Parent

Its just adding some more options for Axis to prevent it, so it's more a feature than a bug.

Well-timed repairing/air-strikes need skills and overview!

A feature... are you trying to argue that the original mapmakers intended you to be able to delay the second phase by playing a fucking lottery?

I doubt it.

Parent

Has nothing to do with lottery - as I said: It needs skill to throw a nicely timed air-strike - but it can also get countered by a nice repairing timing.

Maybe it isnt intentionally, but it's a feature as it is.

Parent

So you have two options... Risk a build and hope they don't get lucky... or fall back and let them set up another defence? How is that fair to the attacking team which has pushed the enemy back and is building the tank?

I'd hardly call them well-timed airstrikes since the window for pulling it off is ridiculously small.

Parent

If its so ridiculously small - why even arguing about it?

Its also a fucking high risk for the defence team. If it doesnt work out and the tank gets repaired (which is mostly directly after their spawn) they cant set up a decent tank barrier defence and get rushed.

Maybe you dont know but there are more options than repairing the tank as a whole or dont repair it at all...

Parent

its good as it is and has nothing to do with luck n stuff

i like bugs keep it

good as it is, if u cant even survive for 2 seconds around a tank or can't jump towards it u should just stop playing :D

so what do you suggest you do when the opposing team spawns and throws two airstrikes while crossfiring you?

Parent

Take a pill of serious business

Parent

its not that hard to have a rifle kill 2/3 axis at their spawn time tbh...

and the airstrikes take like 6 seconds to blow more then enough to move it, I mean its not that hard to sit in the corridors and jump in, or when an engi got revived for the engi to get in the tank or just hide around it

Parent

The hectic parts are my favourite part of the game :v always liked that there was that bit extra to play for.

Is the game not, not about kamikaze raids?

adds moar excitement -> leave as it is

The tank stage on goldrush is as interesting as the first stage on supply..

Parent

There are problems in ET

This is not one of them

no defense against a main 6man engineer rush?

Well, at my level I don't think I've ever seen a 6 man engineer rush even get the tank 50% built.

Parent

but i would be a more interesting option if the bug is fixed

Parent

the worst thing is when it gets stuck and you have to nade it before being able to build again :-/

that's the real problem!
there is nothing wrong with having to stand next to the tank for a second after repairing it.

Parent

it's good now

IT'S A FEATURE, NOT A BUG
AND IT'S GOOD

id leave the time to steal it.

like stated above, - the tank destroy bug though

& radar fakejump clip should be resolved rather.

or supply truck which simply won't move even if u push it with 6 guys since it's so tard-truck

Parent

Repairing the tank and stealing the tank are two separate objectives. If allies repair it just before axis spawn and they're able to prevent allies from stealing it with an airstrike, well then that's just bad timing by the attacking team.

On the contrary, it's bad defending of the axis team if they manage to lose their positions and let the tank get built. The attacking team should have the advantage, not the defenders.

Parent

I see your point, but I disagree. The allied team should take the advantage, not be given it by default. By that I mean the attacking team should hold the tank area if axis decide to push out and /kill for spawn rather than relying on one engineer to slip through and repair/instasteal. I'd be game for trying it though, to see what effect it has on defence tax.

Parent

I don't think defence tacs would change at all. Mostly when teams change a fop for that strike, they are only doing it trying to get lucky and delay the phase a few minutes... they are usually prepared to fall back unless they get lucky.

I understand what you mean... but then again, think about it from another perspective. Killing all six axis and building should be rewarded more than getting a "lucky" revive on an engy mid-build?

Parent

Perhaps, but I'm sure there are equal amounts of possible situations in favour and against. Personally I like the feature as it adds an extra element to be timed for by the attackers, rather than just playing it TDM. Annoying as it is to repair and have it blown up in your face before you get to move it, its equally satisfying to do the same when it's your turn to defend.

Parent

well most of cases the allies are dominating the tank anyways when its build, on the other hand this avoid some lucky constructions when a engineer is directly revived beside the tank and therefore unkillable.

actually, the "lucky" revive by the tank is pretty much the only way to guarantee a build with the map as it is (they can get on the MG while they have spawnshield)

The fact that you are rewarded for a "lucky" revive and punished for killing all six axis and building with no threats.... is a fucking JOKE in the eyes of competition.

Parent

How are you being punished exactly?

Parent

Because killing them all and then building is actually more risky than getting a lucky revive. They can destroy the tank with a lucky airstrike and reset the phase, if you get a revive, all six axis could be still alive and they have no chance of stopping the build...

I just fail to see how it adds _ANYTHING_ to the game... I can't think of ANY positive of having this bug at all. Nor can anyone else in this journal for that matter. It's only the "but it was like that before" argument.

Parent

It probably wouldn’t affect the outcome of a map as the winning team would probably roll everyone and tank the tank regardless.

Yes its annoying when you build and it gets destroyed, but when you throw the airstrike and stop the tank from moving you don't complain.

Overall I would agree that the bug should be fixed just for the fact that otherwise the first stage can drag on unnecessarily..

Parent

QuoteYes its annoying when you build and it gets destroyed, but when you throw the airstrike and stop the tank from moving you don't complain.

Yes I do... Last time I whined and said "Haha oh wow, that is so fucking retarded" on ventrilo.

Why would anyone feel skilled about lotto like this?

Parent

Dunno, cause its funny. Also it does come down to timing.

It's probably because I am not often on the wrong side of this event. When it does it's because we are being held off pretty strongly anyway..

QuoteHaha oh wow, that is so fucking retarded

That's exactly what I said when you all switched names on xfire :P

Parent

he got fullheld on grush it seems, can't see other "punishment" other than that, grush is fucking one of the most balanced maps, we don't need to change anything on it, just make better new one . if u can't fix it 1st time u will do it the 2nd time

Parent

actually it turned a 6 minute time into a 9 minute time, but still, even when we get lucky and save the tank... it doesn't add ANYTHING to the game.

Parent

this is just like "killing all the axis" in supply and getting panzered thru the window as u construct the obj upstairs....they both happen very seldom, and I think it's a cool thing to have that slight chance to change the course of the game.

and why do you keep saying "killing all the axis", u dont need to kill them all if they are not around :D

Parent

gives the axis a special chance to defend themselfs if the engis manages to build the tank

actually... it's less annoying than b4 dynamite-bug was, you must have a bit of luck to take the tank, but axis is kinda lucky too, because it's not 100% skill

its fine as it is so you must actually control the tank a bit and it adds some extra possibilities for axis such as timing a proper strike.

agree with you

leave it as it is.

leave it as it is, repair then steal

leave it as it is

it sucks but i got used to it ... so leave it as it is now

leave it as it is

leave it as it is. it's not really that hard to press +activate button repeatedly after you build the tank.

There is nothing wrong with it.

don't fix it, just remove whole map from maplists

or just the half, so that you dont have to repair the tank anymore!!!!1!!111!

Parent

GOD, MAKE IT STOP

It's perfectly fine as it is, the idea is the allies have to steal the tank from the courtyard so in effect the tank has to actually move .... ? no?

I like it because it gives you that 1in100 chance of being able to stop the tank before allies steal it (airstrike)

but things that are 1in100 chances are usually removed from competition for a reason :\

Parent

I was exaggerating slightly lol, most clans spawn a fop when it's likely allies get the tank and time the strike correctly, or even just wait for them to come in and save fops charge for the tank... Either way my opinion still stands, the tank must be stolen (i.e. start moving) before axis lose the spawn... not just repair..

Parent

bro its like the same thing on supply. the crane wont move until you hit the button :)

actually its a huge risk for the defending team as they see it being repaired and still choose to spawn up there, and most of the time axis will choose to spawn 2nd spawn to build the barrier - CP and try prepare the defence for the next phase...

very seldom you have an axis field ops with the bar full as the engy starts to build and this can only happen then, or the engy was the last guy on allies who was killed right after the repair, and axis can spam nades on tank before the next wave of allies reach there...

whatever the reason, I never thought of it as a bug.

Thompson	35.2 % (19 votes)
MP40	64.8 % (35 votes)


Last Journal?	im a tree
contact call support	charlibilson
Happy Birthday BoRi!!	adze
ET Anniversary 6on6 ODC	Sebhes
ET Anniversary Winter League	Sebhes
Merry Christmas Crossfire	ohurcool


ET Anniversary LAN Announcement	Sebhes	27
ET Anniversary Winter League	Sebhes	1
Merry Christmas Crossfire	ohurcool	5
ET Anniversary Fall Cup Play Offs	Sebhes	1
ET Anniversary Fall Cup Groups & Schedule	Sebhes	18
RTCW: Tavern Rush - Purmerend 2023	Graecos	5


ET on steam	overdrive	26
All good things must come to an end?	TosspoT	592
Last Journal?	im a tree	0
Happy Birthday BoRi!!	adze	4
ET Anniversary 6on6 ODC	Sebhes	0
ET Anniversary Fall Cup 3on3 Qualifiers	Sebhes	5
Script to download private messages	Kimi	5
Vote Pansy for Esports Award	TosspoT	12
Graphic designer	Sebhes	2
cheater confession journal	mama	33
4 years later...all good things must actually come to an end	TosspoT	119
The dust is starting to settle in	Sebhes	13


Public Servers	dorian1	7
Frag Movie Database	fumble	294
contact call support	charlibilson	0
Looking for old FM	ght	9
ET in 4k despite windows scaling at 200%?	Patrick_70	1
Онлайн игры	hilomod	0
australian cheater	pengirl	10
cybergames old servers	barbiekiller	12
objtrack.lua script	dorian1	4
infected event	barbiekiller	0
new file data base for wolfenstein	barbiekiller	8
HIDE AND SEEK EVENT	barbiekiller	14