Holland proposes giving over at 70:))
•
10 Mar 2010, 22:57
•
Journals
Assisted suicide for anyone over 70 who has simply had enough of life is being considered in Holland.
Non-doctors would be trained to administer a lethal potion to elderly people who 'consider their lives complete'.
The radical move would be a world first and push the boundaries even further in the country that first legalised euthanasia.
The Dutch parliament is to debate the measure after campaigners for assisted suicide collected 112,500 signatures in a month.
Euthanasia has been available for the terminally ill in Holland since 2002 in cases of 'hopeless and unbearable suffering' certified by two doctors, but this would be a far bigger step.
Supporters say it would offer a dignified way to die for those over 70 who just want to give up living, without having to resort to difficult or unreliable solitary suicide methods.
They might include widows and widowers overwhelmed by grief, those unwilling to face the frailties of extreme old age or people determined to ‘get out while they’re ahead’ and meet death on their own terms.
The assistants who administered the deadly cocktail of sedatives would need to be certified, campaigners said.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1256670/Holland-proposes-giving-70s-consider-lives-complete-right-die.html#ixzz0hpwxg8FV
Non-doctors would be trained to administer a lethal potion to elderly people who 'consider their lives complete'.
The radical move would be a world first and push the boundaries even further in the country that first legalised euthanasia.
The Dutch parliament is to debate the measure after campaigners for assisted suicide collected 112,500 signatures in a month.
Euthanasia has been available for the terminally ill in Holland since 2002 in cases of 'hopeless and unbearable suffering' certified by two doctors, but this would be a far bigger step.
Supporters say it would offer a dignified way to die for those over 70 who just want to give up living, without having to resort to difficult or unreliable solitary suicide methods.
They might include widows and widowers overwhelmed by grief, those unwilling to face the frailties of extreme old age or people determined to ‘get out while they’re ahead’ and meet death on their own terms.
The assistants who administered the deadly cocktail of sedatives would need to be certified, campaigners said.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1256670/Holland-proposes-giving-70s-consider-lives-complete-right-die.html#ixzz0hpwxg8FV
:DD
cu at heaven friend:)
feels very warm inside my body:)
cant understand other people
The thing is, you can take a million different stances on this subject and therefore it will be tricky to resolve.
I would be surprised if this actually happened, I don't think many families would agree to lose their (grand)parents if they don't have to yet...
Sure, it's their decision, but it's rather selfish don't you think? What about the people that care about them? They seem to be forgotten here. You can argue that 'they'll die eventually', but the counter argument is effortlessly more powerful: 'That's exactly why we want them to stay alive... to enjoy the last moments with them'
People will be divided over this, I doubt they'll make a final decision on it.
The family has much more friends/contacts/daily activities while the elderly sits at home, possibly without a partner. Sure it sucks for the family but if your grandfather would truly say he's had it with this world then I presume you wouldn't want him to suffer.
But you're suggesting that only lonely people want to kill themselves, which is false. Therefore this matter is far more complex than what you make of it.
But it's not like the government is going to pass this in this state. There would probaply be psychiatrists involved in the process to prevent everyone from killing themselves.
Respect the decision of the individual or of the caring relatives?
Which side to chose? Who's going to be the judge of that? Or are we just going to let every suicidal person die now? What happened to suicidal hotlines to help them through it? Are we just going to give up on those people?
If you're going to have a neutral person judge every case then the person may not want to die anymore by the time they came to an answer! Seriously, what the hell do we think we're doing when we're going to help people to die just because they're bored with life.
I can understand euthanisia, since that makes life unbearable. Which is a big difference with this. Here... the people just want to die. They're not in pain physically or mentally (at least the majority won't), they just think they've seen it all and want it over with.
If we're going to allow people to murder people that want to die, then where will it stop? Do you truly believe that this will be the last phase? I know it won't be... Before we know it we'll have a new version of Nazism at hand. And I don't know about you, but I'm not really a fan of the Nazis.
since when nazis asked ppl to choose between dying or keep on living, i mean fuck sake, u wont get a letter when u are 70 saying: hey sup u are 70 wanna die?
ull just head to that if u really want to die, theres no murdering involved
if that gets approved i dont even expect the 50% of old mans to know about it
No, they were after the weaker ones in order to create a 'superior race'
Look what we have here. Killing those that want to die, elderly as well. Sounds like weak people, doesn't it?
And yes, they're given the 'choice'. But believe me, if you're suicidal then it's not a choice. If you're suicidal you'll view it as a golden ticket. If you're suicidal, then all you want is not to die, but to get rid off everything, all your problems, feelings and thoughts... And death happens to do that.
Of course, not all suicidal people will do this, there will be plenty who simply can't be bothered to even get themselves killed. Others will try to resist and get back up again.
This whole thing is silly, if people want to die, fine, but we shouldn't help them do it. We might as well close the suicidal hotlines and sell cheap weapons to help suicidal people get it over with. Why stop wit helping 70+ when you can help them all..?
I thought not giving up was such a big thing, I thought it was so important in this world... apparently not since we're helping those in the dark to die.
You shouldn't think that this is going to pass in this state. It was barely a topic during a meeting as I have heard. Specifics about how the law have not been mentioned. I understand that you think it's strange but I believe that everyone has the right to do with their body what they want to do with it.
If you think it's selfish then it's probaply something you wouldn't do. But still I think your grandfather has more right to do whatever he wants to do to himself than you or any other member of your family does. If you think it's selfish then thats something you're going to have to live with.
And yes, at the end, it's their decision, though I wouldn't really call it that. If they're truly suicidal it's not even a choice, it's a way out. It's so much more difficult dealing with your problems, feelings and thoughts then just let them drift all away... along with your life.
In fact, one might argue that suicidal people can't speak for themselves on this level.
If an pyromaniac asks you to hand him a torch just because he wants to torch things, would you do it?
You may think it's different, but truthfully, the essence is the same. Both don't truly have a choice and both are not in their right set of mind.
I find it depressing that people who know very little of psychology are able to put their autograph down for things like this. All I can do is hope that the politicians will make a smarter choice.
This is where the psychiatrist comes in. Finding out wether the person has lost his will or is just in a momentary breakdown.
You can always get out of suicidalness... always. The only hard part is to figure out how. This is where most people give up. They don't know, they can't remember. This is where other people should help them. Their loved ones can make them see that there are still things that person can enjoy and look forward to.
As long as you have things you look forward to, then believe me, you will not end up being suicidal.
Hmmm, drifted a bit off there. Anyway, many suicidal people 'decided' during a momentary breakdown and took their own life. They had the 'choice' and 'took it' Why make a difference for the 70+ y/o people?
Having a breakdown means you lost the will to live due to an event happening.
In the first example I think you have the right to choose suicide.
The the 2nd example you need a psychiatrist ( as I said in my previous comment).
This is what I was trying to explain
*going to bed*
an old sick man can not hang on a beam;/
and imo relatives are selfish there, if u are in pain and u want to fucking die, now u cant cuz your relatives wants u to stay alive?:DD
If you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting then they should change the proposal into 'whoever can't kill themselfs and want to die' rather than anyone over 70. Since there are most likely also a lot of younger people who are unable to do it themselves and require assistance.
They may just lack the courage, just like a younger person might. There is no age requirement or limit for courage, thus I ask once more...
Why discriminate? I thought equality was THE thing nowadays... Or perhaps it's their way of dealing with the increasing numbers of elders who, let's be fair, no longer play a vital part in our society when we look at it purely economically.
Nazis in disguise are coming, better watch out...
Do you honestly believe that just because you reached an age above 70 that you have already done everything that there's there to do? Because if so, you should see my grandmother. Nearly 80, she had a hip replaced and been through quite some surgeries. Yet she's still alive and enjoys life to the fullest. She's still active and does all sorts of things like trips.
Don't you tell me that she's already done everything, because I know she hasn't.
Besides, what's wrong with doing the same thing more than once..?? We do it all the time, do we not?
The way people think these days irritates me. Progress for the sake of progress is just as retarded as preservation for the sake of preservation.
But perhaps we'll never learn. Perhaps we're cursed to bounce forever between extremes. And perhaps we're just not smart enough to realize it...yet smart enough to mess things up.
by young ppl can do lot of things i never meant that he can do EVRYTHING i thought i didnt have to clear such a stuff lol?
by evrything i mean the typical stuff, had a job... made pretty much the normal stuff.. if u know what i mean..
now that guy reaches an age that he has diseases and not having a good time, and if he just doesnt want to keep on living he can call those "nazis" and they will MURDER you:d
Despite some might believe so, doesn't make it TRUE.
Perhaps if you actually put some grammar in your sentences it would be easier to comprehend.
And honestly, if the stereotypical life is your only argument, then I'm afraid to say you have been beaten.
If you honestly believe there's nothing left after you had grandchildren, then you might as well kill yourself now. Don't waste any time... life's short. ;)
look man, u cant tell to that old man if he has done evrything, if he feels like he did, then he did it u cant simply rate someones else life. if he wants to die then hes got the rights to die.
if they wont let those new nazis kill him then he will put a gun right on his head and pull the trigger.
besides theres people that when they are +60 they feel like a new life has started.
like i said u are noone to judge anyone - u are already rating who am I, (seriously wtf) therefor ill leave this here.
Also 'then he will put a gun right on his head and pull the trigger.'
Let them do that and not waste time with silly things like this one.
Honestly, each time you reply your arguments contradict your original stance.
Now you're saying they CAN kill themselves. Well then, where's the problem?
I'm noone to judge anyone? That's funny, because a bunch of politicians who only look at it purely logically will decide on this. We can only hope there are some with some sense. There will be doctors and shit judging. Is that fair then? Determining their mental health is enough to make a good decision? If you believe that, then please...
We're talking about one's life, not about which shoes he wants to buy. Life is far more complex but we often forget so.
so what if they approve this? its not like u will die of it? its not like anyone that does not want to die will die.
leave it here seriously. u even went through nazis no point really, u wont understand this.
way to go holland
i know its a choice you can make but my god how odd is this...
It's not as if they're gonna send you a letter when you turn 70 saying "you're 70 so you should gtfo by now, here's your free poison sample".