USA healthcare plans
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21 Mar 2010, 23:58
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Journals
I must admit I'm not into the whole bill, all I know is that Obama wants to make sure everyone gets some sort of healthcare insurance. Why are there so many protests about this? Isn't this a good thing?
save whales!
ive heard from many people already, if somebody is lying on the floor, maybe even unconscious, people in the us usually step over those poor guys and stuff like that.
nobody cares and no hospital will ever help you if you dont have a private insurance
1) people will abuse doctors
when they get a cold they might go to the doctors just because they can and it's nearly free.
this will make it nearly impossible for the really sick people to go to the doctors
2) taxes
yay i get to pay more money for other peoples' benefit. not my fault people made bad choices in life
3) limitations on coverage
we're gonna be forced to use a universal health plan. this limits certain coverages, such as end life comforts. if you get cancer or something and are going to die, they won't cover certain things to keep you comfortable while you lie on your deathbed. instead they think "oh you're gonna die anyways so who cares what you feel like right before you do?"
at least this is all that my mom told me, and she's a doctor.
2) Yes, because people get to decide whether they get cancer or not... Unless you meant you can't afford health insurance? Well then, perhaps you should wake up, even if you have a health insurance chances are likely whatever you may have that it won't be included in your contract and you're still fucked. Let's see you talk when you're in the hospital with some rare disease that obviously won't be covered since it's too expensive. Oh and just fyi, if the taxes get too much to pay then blame the wars you've been fighting for decades now, THERE is where the real money goes to.
3) Some more speculative nonsense. Everyone gets treated the same, even those that are dying. Or should I say, especially those that are dying.
Of course all of this is assuming that the change is somewhat like what they have in the UK.
2) i am not poor.
3) if u got diagnosed with cancer, and you were in pain, wouldn't you want morphine or something to ease your last hours?
well that's an example of something that your health care wouldn't help you with, because you're gonna die anyways.
3) As far as I know, people DO get painkillers and stuff when they are in pain as that is medically required unless the patient refuses said medication.
Unless your government decides to be retarded and not do this, which is possible, you might get stuck with that yeah. But don't blame the system, blame the people who configured it badly, since it has been working smoothly and as good as without complaints in MOST industrial countries.
your quite a selfish guy...
it's not that i believe it, it's just that i feel it's important to represent to you europeans what the american public is thinking, not what i personally think.
never heard of altruïsm :p
Every man for himself.
or is it the "american dream" to safe huge amounts of money for a unforseeable future of ur health? or rather wasting all ur money at the time u got it? man plz use your ignorant dumb selfish brains, this system isnt made for hypochondrians - which u ever will have but who gives a fuck on this not even noticable minority? in 30 years u'll heil obama for doing this change, since u obviously dont have a clue how EXPENSIVE health care is, when u have to pay it all for yourself even a small package of some medicine ie. for ur heart can cost a incredible amount of money. and dont forget u still have to pay ur whole life, house rent (oh wait.. u americans prefer houses to overpriced credit conditions), food and so on.
i have seen a few reportages how a handfull of doctors are touring on the eastcoast from city to city just trying to medicate ppl who havent been to a doc for years/decades, since they cant efford it. if it just would have been a handfull of ppl i wouldnt give a shit on them, but suddenly hundrets of ppl per town - most got a job, were there. if this is the system u prefer ur a really poor and braindead guy/nation. keep spending billions of $ in useless wars to proof ur global strength - but obviously this is what some/many are considering as more important as (their own) health care.
e:
:'D
its not the europeans which are mainly blinded by religious beliefs!
in ger we say to guys like u "who is sitting in a glass house, shouldnt throw stones"
Before you even start to argue, make sure you know your stuff or it will only backfire.
The name indeed derives from Christianity and used to be quite involved with religious stuff, but that was like a hundred years ago. If he would use a religious statement in any of his speeches then it would be broadcasted and the votes would plummet.
We, unlike Americans, don't take bullshit.
Get YOUR shit straight before you condemn an entire country of 300 million people.
'Nuff said, point illustrated.
2) Other peoples benefit? It's for YOUR benefit as well. Or can you be 100% sure you won't get any shitty disease? Health is not always about wrong decisions, you can live as healthy as you can and still get some shitty disease. My aunt who passed away sadly 20 years ago was a woman who didn't make any unhealthy "decisions", didn't help her at all when she got breastcancer and died from it. But at least she could try to get herself cured, thanks to the health care system.
3) At least here in Germany you get the morphine you mentioned against the pain if you are going to die. Thanks to our healthcare! So I do not really get how there would be any limitations? Some things in Germany are limited, indeed, so I have to pay for certain medicine myself, but nothing lifesaving or necessary stuff in extreme situations like you mentioned, afaik.
american's aren't exactly the same as germans, too.
Obama's idea is quite intresting, it might help most of the minorities in US.
But what pauz just said must be considered in his plans.
This debate on health care reform is quite interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfsGL_2Zo8
I think Epstein more or less demolishes the commie.
But the thing is, you pay for everyone, including yourself, so you can't really complain as you do not only help yourself, but also others. Additionally, I bet you have to pay less for an entire lifetime of doctor/hospital trips in taxes then you would for 1 serious injury in your current system if it isn't covered by your insurance or if you already had it before you signed it (even if there was no way you could know about it.)
i hate our tax though :(
Individualism, above all else.
Yeah, I think that Facebook group stung Obama =(
Second, if you think any good or service can be free, you're most certainly the one who is ignorant. It might not cost money directly to individual citizens, but doctors can't work for free, medicine doesn't just appear out of thin air, and hospitals don't grow out of the ground. Those resources have to come from somewhere, and that is where most of the problem lies. $910 billion over the next 10 years is a huge risk during a global recession, especially when pharmaceuticals, health care, and biotechnology are huge sectors of our economy that generate a lot of economic activity. I think it's too much of a risk.
Third, there are parts of the bill that don't mesh with the values of a large percentage of Americans. Most prominently, the current version would fund abortions. Although I believe it is a couple's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion, I have a moral issue with abortions that are not for health reasons or rape victims. I refuse to have my tax dollars pay for abortions.
Fourth, Congress is thinking of using a bill that would forgo normal democratic process and pass the bill with a simple majority. That may not sound bad, but our Congress only has two parties (there are a couple of others but they only occupy about 2% of the seats, so their votes are negligible). Our current partisan society dictates that it's Democrats vs. Republicans; compromise is almost a foreign concept when it comes to politics. Both houses of Congress are majority Democrat, so this bill will pass without further modification if this is done, and we're stuck with it for a long time. This is something that needs careful review and compromises need to be made so that it doesn't enrage a large percentage of Americans. Forcing an unpopular bill is not what democracy is all about.
I am against the bill as it stands, I do not believe in socialized healthcare for America (it may work elsewhere), but I believe that it should be a strictly regulated private industry. In short, to me it's not an issue of whether or not something should be done to fix our current system, it's an issue of which way is the best, and I don't think we should be passing a bill that is this drastic without first considering other options.
maybe a change on that system to a real politically diversity, with many parties with diference ideas and ranges would be nice, but i dont think neither democrates nor repu. would vote +1 for this. but this will never happen anyway so nvm on it. but a two partie system isnt what democracy is about too!
ofc such a insurance system is expensive and costs as u said billions, but when it helps and is strictly organized its nice to have, and imo 910 billions arent that much over a period of 10 years in us relations. compare ur costs of war in iraq and afghanistan... alone in iraq u put on 616 billions until 2008 ( i also read somewhere about "true costs" which are around 3.000 !!! billions but this is rather speculation imo)
at last of course there is no country which like to get told from other countries how they have to do their domestic policy. but no one can force you to do so, so why even care about this? like americans dont react outrageous when eu countries try to take influence on the domestic policy of the us.
lets see how it will develop in future, since nothing is forever, and changes can always be made :)
second - not every european citizen cherishes the own government - you should ask the majority of german citezens for example, quite some of 'us' do not value our government at all, because it does one thing you mention at #4 and seem to lay weight into: it tries to be popular. sure a government exists to please the people at first, but if the people fail to decide efficiently it is up to the government to do something unpopular, risking to lose the next election for the higher good.
Who am I to judge your opinion about abortion... certainly it takes some level of stupidity or carelessness to get pregnant while not intending to(exceptions such as damaged condoms certainly exist...), BUT exactly those are imo commonly the persons that can not effort a child OR are not able to efficiently take care of a child and also can not affort an abortion. So why would you want to doom their lifes plus the life of the to be born child for some moral standards?
I'd say this is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
2nd: Agreed that the timing is bad, but the second part is a bad argument. Since, as time progresses, it will keep it share or increase it of your economy. Don't you think it's bad that life essential means are such a big part of your economy and yet millions and millions of people can't get any? I can see why you are concerned, but on the other hand, if nothing happens now then it never will. Unless someone is able to propose a smart longterm plan, which will mean that the current generations will still be fucked.
3rd: As you may to refuse for abortion, others may be unwilling to pay for whatever disease you might get in the future. Does that seem fair? Such a trade? You're both screwed then, the only difference being that you will get off worse.
Not to mention that mistakes can be made and yes it's stupid and yes it's their own fault. But don't be hypocritical, because before you know it you'll be in the hospital due to a stupid mistake having to pay thousands of dollars because you don't have socialized healthcare...
4rd: The Democrats aren't completely united though as far as I've gathered. And a pure democracy is impossible anyway, the system we have know is the closest we'll ever get. We choose someone to make the decisions for us. That is democracy and that's what you get.
Personally I don't think free healthcare is the way to go for America, at least not in one go. Perhaps first go to the stage we have at Belgium. (you pay a small fee (in comparison to the US) for doctor visits, medication, operations... and get the majority back from insurance (which covers EVERYTHING)) and then later change to free if they still feel like it.
I like the system we have here, though I wouldn't mind the UK system, which is the one Obama wants as well (more or less)
The main problem though I believe is something that grew over generations. The feeling of superiority you have over other countries and the ignorance that follows from that. The belief that your country is the best is untrue. No country is better than the other. And yes, it may not be your personal ideas, but I do KNOW that a good share of Americans DO think like that and there's no denying that. I don't mind pride, but I do mind ignorance. A lot are too blind or too uninterested (and thus ignorant) to see how other countries take care of their stuff. It's the reason why we laugh at you behind your back and lately as well publicly. :)
Being forced to pay for abortions to me is like this: If I'm driving too fast and wreck my car, and I don't have full coverage insurance, I don't expect anybody to pay me to get it fixed. If I didn't have money to buy a new one, and I didn't have people that were willing to take me to work, I'd lose my job. Then I wouldn't be able to pay for food. Yet nobody says "hey, let's have government-provided car insurance."
Sort out your priorities and we can talk.
I don't see our country as superior, just different. A lot of people here share the same values as I do which is why I choose to live here. I think that it's great that you live where you like also. What I don't think is great is that you back up racism with random statistics and decent prose to make it sound well-based and intelligent, when, in fact, it's still racism.
and because people are too liberal regarding some issues.