Would you trust crossfire admins to ban on avis and demos?
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15 Apr 2008, 21:07
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Polls
As we (i hope) all agree, there is clearly enough people in the admin crew to come to an agreement as to who is and is not clearly cheating - so we as a crew, trusted by the community will hopefully be able to ban players who are clearly using cheats without having to wait for netcoders customer lists, pbbans etc. that may never come...
+ we can ban obvious randoms (i.e. jaN, kenta)
- potential for mistakes (i.e. perfo, mAus, torspo)
Above are the main criticisms of it, there are of course many more though, including speculation, trust, time, following up of bans by esl/cb...
+ we can ban obvious randoms (i.e. jaN, kenta)
- potential for mistakes (i.e. perfo, mAus, torspo)
Above are the main criticisms of it, there are of course many more though, including speculation, trust, time, following up of bans by esl/cb...
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46.9 %
(484 votes)
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12.0 %
(124 votes)
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20.5 %
(211 votes)
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20.6 %
(212 votes)
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And also it should only be judged by persons who are know as being non biased, so they will make objective decisions.
i dont think so if this vote passes
- potential for mistakes (i.e. perfo, mAus, torspo) <-- Just looking at that one should be able to see how biased shit that would going to be if you had a vote.
- potential for mistakes (i.e. perfo, mAus, torspo)
I guess you can guess and get correct, and writing someone that is as clean as snowflakes in the air as a counteranswer is not funny, just retarded.
nah ofc I <3 teh admijns
BAN PLEASE!!
Yes, if the right persons do it.
ridiculous explanation of the 'NO', to me it is merely an example that you wouldn't be capable to make a right judge on a cheaterscase, sorry..
Imo, only admins 18+ are allowed to have a say. Nobody younger than 18 should be an admin anyway.
+ what koe said
people make .avis of everything these days
almost everyone who was playing the match against switzerland
If you're talking about the first _REAL_ AFK tracking bust, it was by Pepper, and I never mentioned him.
alexL got banned for a demo in 2004(?)/5, vs K2 in a 3on3 pracc that I was spectating together with Chronic. The guy who provided the proof was eddie who requested a demo from alexL when playing with him, that's what I recall. Even if alexL could've been cheating during that pracc, demos wouldn't be evidence enough to ban today, if not in extreme cases, and in that case he was banned for WH, not aimbot like pepper.
its only a few weeks / months ago
I trust Bulld0g and Rafiki enough to know what they're doing + taking into consideration that there are close to 25 people in the admin-crew makes me voting yes.
it's simply the fact that this is a major privilege.. that can be positive, though mind that mistakes easily can be made.. I'm sure that even among cf admins there is a certain hierachy so that when someone doesn't agree on something he might not say it due to the fact that he can be given a 'penalty' or smth..
Also the fact, once they've decided something, but it isn't true, what will happen..?! The whole system would collapse..
sorry but i just don't think this is a good solution, and i'm quite sure this idea will never be reality, well at least that is what i can hope
EDIT: i'm not talking as a CB admin, since my career in that org prolly already knows an end, I'm merely stating my own opinion
EDIT2: mmm I have much faith in Bulld0g but mind that even the best can fail..
just by watching demos and saying someone cheats, then banning him isn't really solid..
but i actually think that there will be guys who are clean, but shoot well and will be banned for avi's that admins might consider as hax that really aren't, and if someone aslicks admins then it is possible to ban players that u don't like, wouldn't say bulldog would do it, but depends on admin
I don't trust avi's or demos... Those who are truly obvious (kenta, that polish guy i forgot the name of) are too rare, and there's too much room for mistakes or abuse.
Else - who the fuck gives a damn about already dead/cheater obsessed game anyway?
although i'm not sure if all members of the crew are capable of properly voting yes/no on all kind of cheat cases we have here on xfire
No, i want cheaters to play
and ban them :D
no, i dont want that some admins decide that, since they see things subjective.
btw: "No, i want cheaters to play" is a bullshit option since it judges those who dont trust cf admins.
thx
"No, i want cheaters to play"
there are obvious cheaters you would know to be sure to hack, right? if it wasnt the case, it could simply be a no
Just browse around on decem's website, he has tons of dodgy avi's on ppl every1 deems clean.
Nothing is a given, and everything is subject to personal perception that's the point.
I do however trust ppl like you decem chaplja etc to make these decisions, albeit somewhat biased (personal likings aswell!) But there are enough admins that couldn't make such a decision!
+If you saw a dodgy avi of me you'd be slightly biased since i know you get my drift? :p
But if the decision is made on MULTIPLE avi's/demo's and not just the retarded ones killerboi makes then i'm ok with that ;)
<3
Opinions are by definition biased, i don't see why people fail to understand that :D
If this method were to be implemented, it'd be gauranteed to be very, _very_ strict, that's for sure. No idea if it ever will be though.
but the persons responsible for it should REALLY be objective and trustworthy not some random oldschool guys (/ cf admins) who think that everyone who's playing good these days and who they don't know is automatically cheating (--> banning for non-solid proof) It definetly won't be easy to decide sometimes and it's likely that innocents might aswell be banned (take some swedish guys as an example, I can't say for sure whether ppl like unix/wizzel ever cheated/cheat, but they would probably have been banned).
But this would finally be a way to ban obvious cheaters (gnajda as an example), which is kinda hard otherwise.
all in all... make sure you get the right persons - as non-biased/objective as possible, who have a clue what they're talking about and how cheats work (chaplja e.g.) --> then go sol!
Take one with no experience in gaming at all, he thinks even a pub nC raider would be clean.
Better ban all suspended with some clear (at least it will be punishment for nolifing) than give cheaters ability to play.
it wasnt?? haha omg... thats pretty gay indeed
no, admins are too subjective imo
But for example if a random cheater cheated and got busted this way, all it would do is shame his name, but cant this player just rename and the chances are the people playing against him wont do a guide/ip search before they start playing, (unless its clanbase where technicaly the player will still be able to play because there isnt enough "solid evidence" that this player cheats) and i dont think you can show up to play a team and then disconnect on the basis you think one of their players may cheat and expect not to loose any points.
i just think its kinda pointless unless bans get enforced and there is enough proof to say the player 100 percent cheats.
are you going to make own eurocup and cdc4 for him? because he wasnt allowed to play cuz of your mistake!
i mean smth like jan/scorch/kenta avi´s with shoots at theads threw walls and i dunnow.. ye thats not legit.. and 4 sure not if someone like kenta doies 10 strangfe scenes in one game.
but u can´t say sometimes hack/no hack if its just lotto?
already made 1-2 times : 3hs , turn 180 degree , 3hs
but thats lotto... if someoen like thta happens 100times to a player.. then okay
or a rly nice frag (shown in my frgamovie):
i was allies (sd2 down gate under the flag).. and enemy was somewhere at cp. i made 3 shots with luger and 3 hs threw a tree... and thta on that long range. but that was 3 secs before selfkill and just random shots in the direction... so u wanna bust me for that?
another example: i know players which are shooting at a enemy and if they can´t kill him in 1-2 secs (casue selfkill) the just do random pre-shots.. and sometimes it looks like wh with 3 hs... so u gonna bust him because of that?
rly hard to say....
@edit and if its going to get a life:
i dotn want oldschooler as admins.. sry to say but time changed. u can have experience.. but if u are a low aimer u dont know what is possible or not. guys with aim.. which know what is possible to make with luck and goo aim these days.
but ofc there also should be some oldschool guys included.. and guys like tosspot/fusen/....
Disagree.
(because simple if u dont u never "want cheaters to play:
")
because i've seen people get accused with an avi over the years, and at least 50% of them weren't actually cheating.
There must be a pre-selection of those admins! "trusted by the community" will cause a interesting discussion if it comes to that imo!
but the idea isnt bad, better than doin nothing!
Where is the option "No because you are not fit to be judge and jury of such a thing" instead if we say No its labelling people cheater lovers, its a pathetic unprofessional and childish poll in my opinion
Ofcourse, this will never happen but I do think crossfire got the rights to disallow players for their own hosted cups / LANs based on demos/avis & history
e.g. we didn't allow
What is needed is new & improved rules that would seem okay in the deprecated logic of fairness for the majority views.
I don't think that some of the admins are competant to determine whether someone is able to continue to play in competition or not
Furthermore, as rafiki has said, if we wanted to we could (that's not to say we will ofc), it's just a matter of seeing how the community would feel about it.
However, ESL / CB should not follow your bans.
It's their site after all :\
Plus they're more likely to get something done than CB (4 cheaters.. I mean, wtf?!) and in a quicker timescale due to more people avi to view evidence and the fact that they don't have to pass information between several different tiers of the same organization to actually have a ban confirmed.
so pls...we should trust the anticheats programs,not some people intincts :D
Joking, I voted no ofc :D
PB screenshots and good avi's that with no doubt proof that he/she was cheating.
No to let them judge players when it is doubtfull.
and since xfire admins already ban people from the page for personal and total hilarious reasons, i rather play against cheaters, then beeing banned from the game by a retarded admin who cant stand me as a person.
that job should rather be done by guys who got the back of the community, are around for some time already and are willing to put a lot of time into it. (not saying that all xfire admins are a bad choice for that job though.)
also if your going to do it you should take at least 5 demos from the same person just to show it wasnt a lucky shot and you can backup with some more evidence.
i tbh would only trust 3-4 people to do such a job (tosspot,bulldog,decem,ronner)
also the admins thinking of taking the job on could you look at the avi from fab and tell me what you would don kkthnx
fabs avi post
But if he does another 5 actions like this in 1 game, I would definately say hax :)
but i think alot of people would get busted even tho they are clean.
... D:
Probably worth bringing on board a few more people who actually know how to spot humanised bots though. I'm sure they don't have the time/knowledge/experience to deal with the crap.
CF needs a dedicated C&A dept. and a system like our cheat-r http://www.crew-nexus.net/cheatr
but if the avis are f.e. about me - nope coz tbh I'm clean
:)
hell no!
apart from some absurd bans and other laughable decisions in the form of removing comments or journals, I have seen some admins posting ridiculous comments in threads about potential cheaters (such as torspo, perfo, keran, shy).. if those people will get the power to deny certain people from playing on the best competition ET still has left it would turn in to a circus.
and i dont know if we should ban them again, i think it would be bad decision, they got their timeban which already disappeared
i want only point that you told bad names for such an example =] but you are mostly right
Avis are a dodgy area, but if you really wanted it it should be a collaborative of respected / qualified community members independant to Crossfire - though not excluding the Crossfire admins.
You trust all of them?
yes
no
depends
see results
should have been the answer options. the ones given were just sad- I dont think people should be able to ban on AVI alone, unless its insanely obvious aimbot, like spinning around getting headshots. WH its impossble to ban on avi alone. just watch a demo of anyone who has played any game for more than 2 a tear or two and they will preaim all the time, and may track through walls for sound etc.
also, a main reason games 'die' is because no new talent comes onto a scene - now you are punishing any that does because if they werent here from the start, obvious cheaters. Stupid. there just needs to be better protection thats all.
voted "Care......"
Though the poll doesn't state ban from where. From clanbase? Hell no. From crossfire? Why not, they ban people for stupid reasons every day anyway. If crossfire admins want to get power to ban from clanbase, apply for clanbase admin.
well done u spaz :D