Do you agree with collectivly punishing the team of a cheater?

YES.

no

Only with cases as obvious as gnajda.

Depends, if the team is aware of the cheater(s).

yes

Quote

if players've knowingly played with a cheater

we cant just make such an attitude to all polish players, because it would be easier to ban whole Team Poland instead of FF

In the past I thought it was harsh, but now that cheating is so rife it's something that just has to be done. It's different if you don't know that the person is cheating, or if they're an ex-cheater, that's forgivable - but playing with someone who is very likely to be cheating is just asking for trouble.

yes

ye

Sure, I do.

no, cuz the team isn't often aware of this. Except if the guy is obvious like gnajda or switch.

yesh, happened to me

happened to me too. in UKEG we had won warleagues that year, and when we found out PRIME (some dutch guy i recruited *blush* ) was cheating, we owned up and told the admins, they took the points off us for the games he played in, and we lost the league cos of it. but its better to have a set of balls and own up if you find a hacker in your team.

seeing templar not allowed to play is a good thing. voted yes

Yes, as long as those admins are somewhat competent and experienced and their decision can be backed up by some sort of evidence, either conclusive or circumstantial, if it's strong enough.

Of course the border between competent and incompetent is very blurry, but common sense should be enough to decide who's oK for the job.

yes, of course.

yes definetly, if it is rather obvious that the guy cheated in competition - to distinguish him from ppl like perfo and/or other dutchies for example - and if his his team knowingly played with him.
though i agree with kot that those admins should be "somewhat competent and experienced"... for example i wouldn't trust killerboy in such a situation (nothing personal against him but you can't ban desire for being weird) but rather someone like sol.
in my opinion everyone knowingly playing with kenta, junky, nirv, koto, trix, boumbo, sinner, nackscott or whatever they are called deserves a ban.

No, that's just lame.

yes, but more like in forfeit losses for the matches where the cheater played

aren't you the guy that got busted and still remained 'God' on xfire?

voted no for delicious irony

racist, pathetic, ignorant.

only in the most obvious cases....

That means you cant play then, you've knowingly played with (ex)cheaters!!!

hmm, dunno why I voted yes, but tbh I would just let Wrobel be the captain and keep an eye on him :P In the EC case CB admins should've also done something way earlier, so just don't give him the chance to let him do it again :P

i think we need a new definition of cheater in that case

voted no, cuz its a fine line. I can understand ppl being pissed at wrobel for playing with gnajda and not rly responding to any accusations. But its still possible he just thought the guy was clean and he trusted him.

Yes, because if teams don't risk any punishment you can just recruit a team full of cheaters and then pick up new ones as your players get busted.

It's up to the teams to make sure the people they play with are legit. If there're people in your team you feel you can't trust maybe it's not such a swell idea to let them in. I think teams are getting off easily, there's almost no accountability in this scene. A team is free to recruit whoever and whatever they want and just get away with it because they say "we didn't know".
Teams just pick up random players from the street and says it's not their fault when it turns out they're a lying, cheating punk. Well, I think to a great extent it is. When an ET team recruits a new player they're so lazy. They put up a thread on some forum or spam on IRC, someone PMs them, they make a trial and then the deal is done.
How about doing some research on your new player? Check with his old clanleaders, old teammates? There's not a single step being taken to ensure their new player ISN'T a cheater.

I'm also getting tired of people blaming the leagues when they punish teams for having a cheating player. It's the player's fault for cheating, not the league's.

no.

OW YEAH PUNISH ME !!!!

MORE MORE


YEAH YEAH

NO!

no team is totally responsible of its players. But as it comes to better clans on a higher level i guess the captains have to check the history and the gameplay, if this doesnt match each other you have to watch out

i fucking love this site

Since the game is dead the few players still willing to play should be allowed to play this cup.

If the cheater gets caught while playing for the team, yes, if the team ejects the cheater before he is caught by the community, no.

Depends. If the team keeps protecting him after watch good profs, yes definitely. Can remember 2 clans that i would have banned in this case: Kojak (kenta) and FF (gnajda)

Do you believe a tournament admins discretion is sufficient to decide if players've knowingly played with a cheater and to ban them from future competitions on a case by case basis - or should everyone associated with be shown the door?

ive missed that part...i voted no, but with i would like to change my vote to: "FUCK YES!!!"

Dont ban me because chizz6l and illumise are hacking please :<

plz the only place collective punishment is good is in schools or army.

and there are reasons why...

Disagree if team don't know if player is cheater. But agree if team cl and others take busted players.

Collective punishment just isn't enough. We need CORPORAL PUNISHMENT for the cheaters ( and the betrayers who play with them)!

if the team knowingly played with a cheater... then yes!

you are fools

of course yes, but only if the team knew he was cheating (can't really prove that)

I voted yes, but it should only apply for the competitions that they are currently playing in that said cheater has played in aswell. this should not ban these players from furthur competitions, except the cheater himself.

Edit-

I answered the main title yes, but the notes underneath the Poll no - Its probably the most stupid question ever ... no offense nellie :P ... just anyone saying yes to that part of it would be a complete retard.

but... if said player was a hacker previously, his teammates should get a short global ban because of it.

40% of poll voters are cheaters

well u say u never play with a cheater but then u say u once played with sup3r and according to some guys logic u would be banned atm and they never cared if u knew or not that before sup3r got busted, coz where is this line where u can say this info was given in ventrilo, u heard him/saw him or he used wallhack. And then can u be sure that all players from that team knew 1 guy was hacking or maybe only 1-2 knew it, such generalizing is stuupid, u have to take team by team to decide

when they played a cup with a cheater, they should be expulsed from that cup and the cheater should be banned.
however this shouldn't apply to other cups.

ppl get banned if they play on public with hax i thought

According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Of Course i agree ....

Its a pity that new "zero tollerance policy" had started with pl community ;/ I hope that you will stick with this policy from now on.

national!
he never said it was a race, he said u were a racist. there u go
racism has a more general definition

If they are playing with known cheater then yes ,otherwise not . It is usually very hard to know if someone from your team is cheating or have cheated in past

In general admins are not up to this job in my opinion. But if there were decent admins around to look at these cases I would welcome the decision to ban the team who is playing with a cheater, if they knowingly play with the cheating asstard.

only for xiiting in wars

Most of the time the team doesnt even know he cheats,

But in gnajda case for sure.

depends of the case, for example:

gnadja & FF - yes
razz & helix - no

yes, in case the members know it.
and don't give me that bullshit that you cannot tell if your member is cheating or not, it is so obvious, you might miss it if you play a single war but it gets repetitive..

so I say if a clan has existed for a while already and a member gets busted only recently, that is enough to ban the rest of the team as well.

it's basically like knowing about a murder in real life, if you don't tell the police it can be thought of as interfering the investigation.

e-crime :L

A team is most likely aware of players cheating or atleast should be aware, becuase that should be your own investigation. Therefore I think that one player is responsible or atleast when he is a representive for the team, being a player, the entire team should get kicked when he cheats.

morrigu is to blame, sure, I know that, the whole morrigu chapter was a failure anyway. but if you really didnt know who n30 was, even before cpc2 etc, then why have u not mentioned this before?

I'm not feeling sore because of the EC quali, I have never placed any blame of that on to you.

before recruiting xav, I didnt know who he was and I had never heard of him. emoreh told me to take him, I took him. xav was suspicious in my eyes since I've had never heard of him before. emoreh stood up for him, he told how some reload players were at his house when he was playing and he played just the same. not to mention emorej has known xav for years. besides all that, I havent ever seen anything hax like from xav, besides that one .avi xpaz did, if thats really the best action out of all the stuff that has been made out of him, I really wouldnt call him a cheater.

lastly, do you still have the demos of N30 from that EC match against us?

and no, I dont think you knew what im going to reply since I didnt either and it took some time to write this reply.

yes, in case the members know it.

so i voted no

edit: I played in a clan few months ago where one player was "too good". Other members of the clan couldnt say he is a cheater or not, so if I would play a cup with that team and we are kicked beacuse we had a cheater then its unfair. :x
Dunno if i was clear.

razz cheating in 2006, punishing helix was wrong!

gnajda is clean leave him alone

bullshit in ET, if you do so this means there only 4 teams left

for me its still unclear if gnajda cheated or not. i have seen no hard evidence of it and none of those avis were even close to suspicious for me. its just a retarded decision to ban the players considering the fact that its possible gnajda didnt even cheat.

"Do you agree with collectivly punishing the team of a cheater?"

Yes, depending how this is portrayed.

If the cheater plays in a cup match with the team, and is proven to have cheated in that match - it will affect the whole team - of course.

"Do you believe a tournament admins discretion is sufficient to decide if players've knowingly played with a cheater and to ban them from future competitions on a case by case basis - or should everyone associated with be shown the door?"

Having two similar, but all different, questions in the same poll isn't wise.

So no for this option.

I wouldn't ban players just because they've played with cheaters. Unless, they themselves admit knowing that they knew the guy was cheating. Since, you can't really prove that they knew about it in any other way. Unless, it is so obvious, and with obvious, I mean obvious. Not some suspicious things happening once in match.

There is no simple answer to this poll.

Yes.

punished in the matches they've played with the cheater hell yea, but banning the team from future cups should be no

what about fab?

Only if the guy is really obvious cheater, Dont want to ban some low+ team that has similary playing to them cheater.

Yes but the admins have to have impeccable judgment. In the case of FF, I think that was just for members to be excluded from certain competitions.

If someone in your team turns on a wallhack suddenly in a game and gets kicked by PB, there's nothing the team could really do. That would be harsh if the entire team got banned/kicked.

yes, considering the fact that anyway naga and wiadro are cheating too, the other members could only be aware of it and protecting him/them.

depends on "if the team could be possible cheaters".

Don’t even argue with polacks, mate
look @ them , so many are ashamed to put their country’s flag @ xfire & putting fake one in their profile instead. & so fucking funny that they whine about racism.
As 1 polish guy said – about 50 % of polish players above med skill have bimbot , since it costs 10 -15 euro @ & even poor polacks can afford it.
Admins Just should ban them all from serious competitions, like Euro & National cups, seriously.
Let them play their own polish cups,

If it's absolutely 100% certain that they knew, then yes. In that case it's not collective punishment, it's a ban for knowingly allowing cheats to be used within the team.

I don't think it's possible to know for certain that they were aware though (unless they confess), so no.