A boring title but let’s talk about maps. What makes a map good? A map is good in xfire standards when it is suited for competition. When is a map suited for competition? Good question! In Return to Castle Wolfenstein most maps had a main objective which could be completed from the start. They also had side objectives which could make it easier to complete the objective but it wasn’t necessary to complete them. Take a look at mp_ice. It had two side objectives (the door and the side wall) but you could get the documents (and bring them home) without completing those objectives. Assault could be completed without having to blow up the hatch and the door. You didn’t even have to grab the forward spawn (but it made it easier and you’d pass it anyway). My point being: The maps only had one major phase.
Now onto Enemy Territory. Oasis could be compared to mp_beach of Return to Castle Wolfenstein. The tunnel way and the wall. Beach had the door and the wall. In both maps it was possible to get over the wall without blowing it up. Goldrush was really multi phased. Phase one: Get the tank. Phase two: Drive the tank to the barrier and blow the barrier up (this was later simplified). Phase three: Get the docs and drive the jeep. That are a lot of phases! If I remember correctly (my memory is horrible) te_goldrush was made which bypassed the tank barrier phase. Finally let’s take a closer look at Radar. It has a capturable flag but that isn’t needed to complete the objective. However, blowing up the doors is. One door can be opened by a covert op. This makes it comparable to Oasis and Beach. When the doors are blown both radars are there to grab. Then you just have to bring those babies home. When I quickly compare maps from Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Enemy Territory with each other it seems to, on average, have an extra phase. Most maps are multi phased.
Now onto Quake Wars. Only one map is released. Some lucky people have been playing the other maps already but looking at Sewer and the maps Splash Damage made for Enemy Territory I think it’s fair to assume they are multi phased. Sewer has three phases. Phase one: Build the EMP. Phase two: Blow up the sewer. Phase three: Hack the sewer controls. The strogg shields make it impossible to skip a phase. I’m not sure if that would be the case in the other maps as well, if it is it sucks.
What is better? Multi phased or just one? I’ll quote the famous Beach Boy Dusty:
I couldn’t agree with the Beach Boy more! Multi phased maps make it harder for the underdogs. Mistakes should be punished. With these safety nets disguised as phases they are not. Every team is given a second or third chance! Which is ridiculous.
Then there another thing: Document runs versus dynamite objectives. Which is more exciting? Document runs are in my opinion. A player could slip through, catch the documents and completely disrupt the defense because of confusion. With dynamite objectives the player that slipped through already has to be an engineer and the defending team has 30 seconds to correct their mistake.
The final thing is time. In Enemy Territory the map times were already a lot longer than in Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Quake Wars seem to have even longer map times. Longer is boring in my humble opinion. It doesn’t add anything either. Everything could be packed in less than ten minutes. In Enemy Territory a map like Supply Depot became popular because it was quick. A lot of action and lots of speed. That is more exciting to watch than the old goldrush which took ages and was boring.
So the maps should only have one major phase. Document objectives are preferred over dynamite objectives. This would help decreasing the map times which is a lot more exciting. All these things makes a game more fun. For players and spectators! This is all for competition. What about the public players? I’ll ask you one thing: What was more fun? Slipping through the defense that raped your team on Beach and get the documents or not getting the tank for 20 minutes at Goldrush?
I hope to get input from all of you. Take a look at maps from the perspective of the player and spectator! Both is needed to make a game a success competitively. Hopefully there will be a lot of map makers which can produce maps that are suited for competition.
Now onto Enemy Territory. Oasis could be compared to mp_beach of Return to Castle Wolfenstein. The tunnel way and the wall. Beach had the door and the wall. In both maps it was possible to get over the wall without blowing it up. Goldrush was really multi phased. Phase one: Get the tank. Phase two: Drive the tank to the barrier and blow the barrier up (this was later simplified). Phase three: Get the docs and drive the jeep. That are a lot of phases! If I remember correctly (my memory is horrible) te_goldrush was made which bypassed the tank barrier phase. Finally let’s take a closer look at Radar. It has a capturable flag but that isn’t needed to complete the objective. However, blowing up the doors is. One door can be opened by a covert op. This makes it comparable to Oasis and Beach. When the doors are blown both radars are there to grab. Then you just have to bring those babies home. When I quickly compare maps from Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Enemy Territory with each other it seems to, on average, have an extra phase. Most maps are multi phased.
Now onto Quake Wars. Only one map is released. Some lucky people have been playing the other maps already but looking at Sewer and the maps Splash Damage made for Enemy Territory I think it’s fair to assume they are multi phased. Sewer has three phases. Phase one: Build the EMP. Phase two: Blow up the sewer. Phase three: Hack the sewer controls. The strogg shields make it impossible to skip a phase. I’m not sure if that would be the case in the other maps as well, if it is it sucks.
What is better? Multi phased or just one? I’ll quote the famous Beach Boy Dusty:
I couldn’t agree with the Beach Boy more! Multi phased maps make it harder for the underdogs. Mistakes should be punished. With these safety nets disguised as phases they are not. Every team is given a second or third chance! Which is ridiculous.
Then there another thing: Document runs versus dynamite objectives. Which is more exciting? Document runs are in my opinion. A player could slip through, catch the documents and completely disrupt the defense because of confusion. With dynamite objectives the player that slipped through already has to be an engineer and the defending team has 30 seconds to correct their mistake.
The final thing is time. In Enemy Territory the map times were already a lot longer than in Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Quake Wars seem to have even longer map times. Longer is boring in my humble opinion. It doesn’t add anything either. Everything could be packed in less than ten minutes. In Enemy Territory a map like Supply Depot became popular because it was quick. A lot of action and lots of speed. That is more exciting to watch than the old goldrush which took ages and was boring.
So the maps should only have one major phase. Document objectives are preferred over dynamite objectives. This would help decreasing the map times which is a lot more exciting. All these things makes a game more fun. For players and spectators! This is all for competition. What about the public players? I’ll ask you one thing: What was more fun? Slipping through the defense that raped your team on Beach and get the documents or not getting the tank for 20 minutes at Goldrush?
I hope to get input from all of you. Take a look at maps from the perspective of the player and spectator! Both is needed to make a game a success competitively. Hopefully there will be a lot of map makers which can produce maps that are suited for competition.
the opposite of that is a map like grush and the front tank defense (boring, long lasting and sometimes much raping)
Edit: i'm so sorry 4 my opinion
P.S.: "Then there another thing: Document runs versus dynamic objectives." I guess you mean Dynamite*
I am not new by the way. Just gone for two years but I always knew what I wanted. You would know if you wouldn't be new to this community.
Adding a phase isn't simply adding a safety net, it's just adding a phase, much like you could add more rounds if you wanted and if you had time to play them.
More rounds means more chances to put right mistakes made in previous ones, just like more phases does, but that doesn't stop games like CS and COD using many short rounds per match, and you wouldn't call them "low skill" games without mass appeal.
What's the difference between playing 10 rounds of COD or 2 ET:QW maps with 3 phases each? (apart from ET:QW having less "rounds/phases" and being more interesting cos they wouldn't all be the same).
Adding a phase isn't like adding a round. A phase is a safety net. You didn't loose as you did in a round, you get a second chance to still win the round. It is a huge difference!
Next to that consider an uneven game. In ET and Quake Wars you can get raped for 20 minutes. Fun right? Maps with less phases helps the underdog to overcome the odds and makes sure maps don't go on for 20 minutes. Which is more fun to the team raping as the team getting raped. The latter knows there is still a chance they can win and if they don't that the rape is over in 5 minutes.
It's a huge difference.
And what's the difference between a strong side raping a weak side over 10 x 3 min rounds as opposed to 3 x 10 min rounds, it's still 30 mins of rapage ;)
How can you loose frostbite if you are the better team? Only if you make more mistakes than the opponent. If you do that... then your team isn't the better team. Getting punished for mistakes isn't lotto. Skill is the deciding factor and you mistake it for lotto. How wrong are you.
And your point about the better team always winning. Then you agree that the underdog has no chance. I remember Infensus - Kreaturen in the last real Eurocup. The map played was Beach. Infensus was the better team. Would they have played properly they would have won. Instead they got arrogant and Kreaturen punished them and one player brought the docs home. That isn't lotto. Mistakes are punished. You seem to dislike that. Playing to your best all the time, making few mistakes, is skill. You need teamwork and communication. It is skill, not lotto.
Then you have no clue. Stop.
8sry for my bad english xD)
I would prefer a map with average roundtime of 20 minutes 24/7 than some shitbite and such maps.
And the sewer map is great for wars.
In comparisson to ET for example, its like oasis - you can go to the north guns without blowing the wall, it always allows for the wow factor in a game, even if u dont see it in 99% of the matches
But I agree the action might be a little bit too focused on a objective, maybe build in a second option like destroying some gate that gives the GDF the possibility to go underground and blow up the force field generator or something.
Sewer with no shields would be sewer without an EMP defense. Its very easy to get across if you want to. You can jump or drive your whole team over as it is, you just can't go inside.
"Our teamwork and communication sucks. This causes us to make many little mistakes. The opponent profits from these mistakes. We want to have safety nets!"
Go for perfection and you win every match while making it more exciting to play and watch. I never liked raping a team at goldrush for 20 minutes nor did I like getting raped. This counts for every match. Being able to win while held at spawn makes sure the opponent always have to stay alert. Now when the tank is stolen: Big deal! We have plenty of safety nets. As TosspoT said: It is nice to know someone can overcome their odds because the opponent fucks up. As he says it hardly ever happens (oasis wall) but when it does it's fun. The better team fucked up and that ought to be punished. That isn't in multi phased maps and that sucks.
If you get spawnraped, your team is obviously the worst team. Your team will lose if you get spawnraped, because the other team is better. It's how fair games work.
Now you want to still have a chance even though you suck so much, for example by sending a sneaky sneaky player who slips by and gets the docs. So you want the worst team to win anyway cause of some damn noob sneaking by. Well perhaps think of the teamwork and skill it requires to get an opponent int heir spawn and keep raping them, and compare that amount of skill with the "skill" needed to sneak past an enemy. Yes, a lot communication, godlike aim and excellent game knowledge is needed for that... -_-
If a team that trained so hard that it can overaim and just own the other team, that team should win. Putting random luck objectives in a map isn't fair to the better team, as you might train tenthousand times for a single game, a stupid sneaky dude or a bad spawntime might still lose you the game in those lotto maps. That might be 'cooler' to watch, it ruins ET & teamwork for the players imho.
I'm saying that it would increase the fun and the wow factor. It's no fun being 100% sure who will win. Extra phases increases the chance you do. That sucks. Having only one major phase means you have no safety net. You can't fuck up. That takes skill. If you do fuck up that isn't lotto but stupidity from you and your team. Stupidity should be punished but it isn't in multi phased maps. That sucks.
read again what I typed about that ;)
Bad spawntime != you fucking something up
A spawntime is a specific time that returns each 30/25/20/15 seconds, and is synchronised on the other team. A bad spawntime isn't about missing a spawn, it's about how your spawntime resembles with the enemy's...
I like underdogs, if the best team always wins it will become boring really fast.
When the game consists of multiple phases you'll have more tactical options which automatically involves more teamplay.
At least, that's how I see it.
imo, competitions and leagues could maybe incorporate new maps into ET competition..Im getting a bit sick of playing b4/adler/supply/fb 24/7. ;<
best 3v3 map ever: supply
best 6v6 map ever: oasis
<3
Your point regarding spawn is a good one. A good team will know when to push and will know when they can safely die. Missing spawn and losing isn't lotto. It's a mistake which can be easily prevented. The best team will know what to do and when to do it the best. They don't need build in safety nets.
So maps as I suggested in the column will actually favor the best team. Despite what many comments suggests. They overlook too many aspects of a game.
After all, it's all about what you prefer to play. I personally like maps that are neither too short nor too long: The perfect size for ET is something like radar and supply imo. et_ice for example is way too small and old oasis too hugo for me.
SW_goldrush_te is the example for a perfect et map.
btw marketgarden and tram (i think both from splashdamage) own :)
undervalued maps
noobs are whining as always ;)
So if all those fast maps (or lotto - depends how you call it) have to stay in ET, let's play 2 sw rounds on each.
2. very nice that oasis is back
3. Fuelldump was a great map aswell, but the ETplayers of today (aimers) won't like a teamplay map like fuelldump.
single objectives are what is boring, instead of a map having various aspects, many different situations and tax options, you have 1 phase with 1 tactic.