One thing the ET community can take great pride in is its achievements, the fact this game is even alive today is because of what the community has done in its past. However, those are yesterdays achievements the question of the column is what are you going to do today?
ET has the best broadcast tool of any game and with it the best broadcast website/community (GTV.org) behind it. It has a legacy of the Quakecon team and what the community did to build it, ET has done more than any other community to fight off cheat organisations and it has maintained a strong level of activity despite its age to name just a few things the game has done. Those are just a selected handful of accomplishments that the ET community can put to its name. But what has it done lately? More importantly, what have you done lately?
'Back in my day' there were healthy debates/flame wars about the best way to progress the game here on Crossfire between the likes of Myself, Shakes, Kajab, zenon, Lake, Cash etc. Now some of those went on to be CB Headadmins, Some of those went on to win Eurocup and some of them did a little of both the reality was if you wanted something done you did it yourself. For example, Shakes was running a cup (that I dont think ever finished?) - that he wanted it to prove that his new amnesia lineup were good enough for Eurocup and Snuggs and Myself wanted Supply Depot in it to prove its competitive legitimacy, that cup achieved both its goals, both got accepted to the following Eurocup.
Further back in my day, The Clanbase sup Spirit was an absolute tool who blamed ETTV for the late running of the EC. However he failed to provide server information for ETTV until about 5 minutes before the match. Now remember this was a long time before connecting ETTV to a server was a straight forward operation. After enough bs and creating enough fuss within GGL (who owned iTG who I was casting for at the time) I with help from others organised a boycott until things were fixed, the boycott was eventually not needed and things got fixed and Spirit left the following season - however as was the way back then, if you don’t like something you try to fix it.
And now we come to today! The CIC7 Map Pool debate. Clown raises a quite valid point that there are not enough active top level players involved in the map pool discussion. However the point Clown missed was that is not through choice, there are also not enough active top players involved in the admin community. There is a very well trodden path here on Crossfire of top players moving into an admin role, Decem, Sol, Adacore for example. Quite worringly I ask you where is the next Adacore going to come from?
We have moved a long way away from the days of top players getting involved and doing things on their own to prove a point. Clowns more recent article regarding Bremen is the first instance in a long time of some action in that department, it doesn’t always have to public action either - urtier for example was always a very active private contributor to ET decisions. We've even moved so far away from those days that Krosan who has been the most active admin on CF in the past 6 weeks is now almost public enemy #1, despite the fact he did the 2009 Awards, ran 4 Intel Cups and posts a shit load of news. Is there no way to win with you guys?
Apparently there is no way to win with the community at the moment. I cite TAG as the perfect example of this. As we have all come to realise, TAG are ALWAYS right but I discovered on their website that former CB Admin, Homer, attempted to create a focus group for decisions for the last Eurocup season, TAG’s representative Lightning did not participate:
It is clear that such a solution will not work if such crucial voices such as TAG will only use their voice to complain rather than get involved when organisations reach out to them. So the effective solution from history is that top players must start to step up and get involved into the admin community. Right now I am debating adding someone like Toxic simply because he is trustworthy, not a cock and was an admin long ago – but that is a token gesture (he knows this :P) to solve the problem in the short term, what I would love is that there was another top player out there already doing work in the community to actually try and grow or improve their game who would be a logical addition to any admin team. Instead the most active people are the whiners and flamers, so as the title states – GET UP OFF YOUR ARSE AND DO SOMETHING or situations like the map pool will happen again and again.
ET has the best broadcast tool of any game and with it the best broadcast website/community (GTV.org) behind it. It has a legacy of the Quakecon team and what the community did to build it, ET has done more than any other community to fight off cheat organisations and it has maintained a strong level of activity despite its age to name just a few things the game has done. Those are just a selected handful of accomplishments that the ET community can put to its name. But what has it done lately? More importantly, what have you done lately?
'Back in my day' there were healthy debates/flame wars about the best way to progress the game here on Crossfire between the likes of Myself, Shakes, Kajab, zenon, Lake, Cash etc. Now some of those went on to be CB Headadmins, Some of those went on to win Eurocup and some of them did a little of both the reality was if you wanted something done you did it yourself. For example, Shakes was running a cup (that I dont think ever finished?) - that he wanted it to prove that his new amnesia lineup were good enough for Eurocup and Snuggs and Myself wanted Supply Depot in it to prove its competitive legitimacy, that cup achieved both its goals, both got accepted to the following Eurocup.
Further back in my day, The Clanbase sup Spirit was an absolute tool who blamed ETTV for the late running of the EC. However he failed to provide server information for ETTV until about 5 minutes before the match. Now remember this was a long time before connecting ETTV to a server was a straight forward operation. After enough bs and creating enough fuss within GGL (who owned iTG who I was casting for at the time) I with help from others organised a boycott until things were fixed, the boycott was eventually not needed and things got fixed and Spirit left the following season - however as was the way back then, if you don’t like something you try to fix it.
And now we come to today! The CIC7 Map Pool debate. Clown raises a quite valid point that there are not enough active top level players involved in the map pool discussion. However the point Clown missed was that is not through choice, there are also not enough active top players involved in the admin community. There is a very well trodden path here on Crossfire of top players moving into an admin role, Decem, Sol, Adacore for example. Quite worringly I ask you where is the next Adacore going to come from?
We have moved a long way away from the days of top players getting involved and doing things on their own to prove a point. Clowns more recent article regarding Bremen is the first instance in a long time of some action in that department, it doesn’t always have to public action either - urtier for example was always a very active private contributor to ET decisions. We've even moved so far away from those days that Krosan who has been the most active admin on CF in the past 6 weeks is now almost public enemy #1, despite the fact he did the 2009 Awards, ran 4 Intel Cups and posts a shit load of news. Is there no way to win with you guys?
Apparently there is no way to win with the community at the moment. I cite TAG as the perfect example of this. As we have all come to realise, TAG are ALWAYS right but I discovered on their website that former CB Admin, Homer, attempted to create a focus group for decisions for the last Eurocup season, TAG’s representative Lightning did not participate:
It is clear that such a solution will not work if such crucial voices such as TAG will only use their voice to complain rather than get involved when organisations reach out to them. So the effective solution from history is that top players must start to step up and get involved into the admin community. Right now I am debating adding someone like Toxic simply because he is trustworthy, not a cock and was an admin long ago – but that is a token gesture (he knows this :P) to solve the problem in the short term, what I would love is that there was another top player out there already doing work in the community to actually try and grow or improve their game who would be a logical addition to any admin team. Instead the most active people are the whiners and flamers, so as the title states – GET UP OFF YOUR ARSE AND DO SOMETHING or situations like the map pool will happen again and again.
Problem is that there are no new maps in ET. All these picked "new" additions have been played before and deemed bad.
If krosan wants to test reactor for 9001 time, why bother?
Smaller mappoll is worst can happen.
Really new maps are either bad, or at best on level of these old, forgotten maps no one really wants to play.
What we need is new supply depot. Can someone deliver it?
What I mean is for custom map have such great impact on ET as supply does.
We keep "testing" maps that just don't work.
We have solid core of goldrush, supply, radar. But every season we keep re-adding trash like braundorf, frostbite, adlernest, reactor, delievery just because we know them and few people tend to enjoy such maps.
You say supply had it rough. Every map does, but as you see, people still WANT to play GOOD map like supply in the end. How many people can say that about maps mentioned above? They just don't work and are being added cause of convenience for players and admins. Secret Weapon was played years ago, it was decent but no one wanted to keep playing it, yet it was added as "new" map once again last season, just to be forgotten again. Why?
Fuck it, just add 1 (not more for god's sake) NEW custom map to EC/ESL map poll and make TOP teams play it.This season for example Missile was decent, but apart from few random cups no one bothered to play it. That new haemeraer map or battery_sw or beach map. Some people will whine about it, but whats worst that could happen? 1 season and if in the end it turns out map is shit? Bye. Next.
Risk it.
In 6on6 (in 5on5 it might be different due to bremen not working), we could have EC map poll like: gold, radar, supply, bremen + one of the new maps, instead of wasting time on maps that rotate each season over and over again.
Also I think testing new maps only in OC is pointless, noob teams can't steal positions from ETTV games of top teams and so on. And you can't expect EC teams to accept new map just cause it was played it one season on OC.
Funny that you mention secret weapon / sw_battery / missile as good maps which I agree and then you say that they should be tried out again 1 more season and that if others whine about it, doesn't really matter(+1 with that)... well it happened already, with delivery, adlernest & reactor and it didn't fail tbh(yet people like you keep whining about it ), those maps weren't trash as you call it, they were played pretty actively and it was thrilling to play/watch them... in fact, seems like TAG always tends to flame the maps where they can't go rambo around..
On a side note. Nice jumping to conclusions from reading a couple posts from taggers.eu.
I actually joined that mappool discussion on behalf of TAG.
Plus the map pool is an easy fix, I said we'd review it and we will doesnt do any harm to make a change.
Though somehow I get the feeling you don't like TAG. I don't mind you disliking TAG, but don't dislike us for the wrong reasons. The screenshot from taggers just shows 3 posts and you certainly made conclusions which are just dead wrong from those 3 posts.
It was a good example of teams not taking oppourtunities getting involved and I wont lie it was a nice prod back at TAG who lets face it have given me/cf a great deal of shit over the past months.
I agree you got a lot of shit from us. Some of it you/cf didn't deserve.
Actually, I haven't been involved in ET at all over the past months. Nice personal attack one again :D God you are predicatable. You totally evade the discussion and reply with general, incoherent mumbo jumbo:
What on earth are you talking about. I'm talking about you deleting a column (which is considered to be an opinion piece). You are just making personal attacks which have 0 to do with the actual discussion.
What are you smoking and where can I buy it? Or do I need to quote logs between you and clown where you start off by calling him an idiot for writing a critical column? Anyway, that quote isn't how I know you :)
So I guess, after reading that quote from you, you alredy realised deleting the column wasn't the right choice. I know crossfire isn't exactly the perfect place to have an intelligent debate, but you must think pretty low of this community if you believe we can't think for our own, if you think you need to delete content which you could have easily contested in a single comment.
It's shit like http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=forum&mode=item&id=28166 and you deleting columns, that might want you to consider moving on to a real web 2.0 site, with user moderation instead of admin bias.
I could, but you Overdrive have proven on TAG that you can build a site to whatever spec you want (because you didnt like the spec of Crossfire), but if you're a muppet you still wont get anyone to visit it :) You spent a long time building that site and before then you spent a long time mocking this site, yet you are here still and your failed attempt at a Crossfire Rival (a TAG members words, not mine) is not really rivalling...
I suggest you read my reply again.
we've become one cheater loving community , back in the days cheaters were bullied by all and nobody would've dare to play with them once. now you just dont care , gnajda having shitloads of account and many other busted guys just say ,, i used it only on public,, and no one cares
next to that, you have to visit gaming sites like CB / ESL and a shitload of other gaming community sites.
gl :)
Will see how it will go
Or make some kinda bulletin-board / channel to communicate with them about important issues.
Something i simply don't get is why it has to be always the top players to get involved in this...
Not to be rude or something some top players are just cocky about this like your example inside of TAG...
Its like the same for us lower skilled players that play OC Premier or EC quily or OC and lower that can have good thoughts...
I never ever heard of Krosan before but he is a good example from being a less top player that is just doing a great thing arround here with the COD news and other news aswell!
It's not that i wanna complain for example myself i will not be in any position simply because of my english in writting and stuff and lack of time for giving it a extra shot to help the community...
I only wanted to point out that there are aswell less none players arround here that can participate with any idea's and stuff or doing a excellent job...
But in anyway i'm not in a position to give critisem on you cause i think you do a great job or just something where you can't give a word on so keep on going:$!
Anyways i hope you could read it cause i really know my english grammer skills are totally fucked up... for somebody that lives in the netherlands and have the age of 21:P!
Anyway just stick to your plan with the other admin's i mean if does top players are so frustrated and giving critiscm on the fact the decisions you guys maked wrong i hope this collum woke them up and get them where you want them after this collum for the next thing that will happen in the future;)!
Goodluck with that!
I mean if there is a discussion about the map pool because the reason is that they can get cash and that it isn't only for the fun for them... then why discuse about the maps i mean they are skilled right so they can preform on the best level on each map?
I mean i love frostbite it has exitement and everything and its fast and complex at the same time but i see many pro's want the map get tossed out of the map pool.
Because of all diffrent reason's but i mean it is not that it depends on a map if you win or lose... it depends on your self on how you preform as a team and ofcourse every team has his strong map and weaker map but more reason to practise more serious and stuff and being active in every sort of way cause after all there is still the price money on the line?
Sorry for my english rahul and it's no hate against you;)!
it should be about activity and commitment, not solely skill. during the last years there have always been guys of top-teams showing off with how less they actually care about the game and community. those are the ones to exclude from decision-making because i don't really see why someone who obviously just has nothing better to do in life should get the chance to ruin the fun for others.
about some maps being more reliable to determine the better team: i totally agree but it seems like there are still top-players interested in playing adlernest (or has it been removed from competition already?). to push this a little further: rader can also come down to a luck based docrun (even though one surely can't compare it to adlernest), not making it the best choice aswell. still i'm sure there is a "radar-lobby" as well as adlernest-supporters. thus you will never get a map pool everybody is happy with. so why not optain opinions of lower-skilled people?
probably the community will end up with the same map-pool anyway, but it at least will give a wider range of players the chance to get involved with community work / admining (win-win situation!). some of them might even end up playing on high-skill after some time aswell. just take jere, no one would have really cared about his opinion like 2 years ago. if i browse crossfire to read some news, he's often one of the guys to give some predictions about scores or whatever.
Back in my 'oldschool' days when I was still playing with
Adacore won Eurocup...He may have been the 7th player but he played quite a few matches in that season iirc. And what you dont appriciate is that where there was a Kajab, there was a lake by his side representing the team massacres of this world who were regularly fighting it out with the w@co's of this world. It wasnt a decision taken by the top for the top, it was a balanced decision well argued out amongst the community.
Its not really about taking an EC seriously because different groups will label different EC's good or bad for the past 2+ years. Its about having that experience.
Top or sucky player is an irrelevant discussion. It is the ability to analyze, know the balance of the game and take all types of players in mind. Then you are an admin if you can and dare to make decisions.
TBH, I think watching ETTV all the time, rather then playing would make someone a better admin. It allows you to literally take multiple perspectives in mind.
Ec players arnt the most intelligent people in the community...or lets say the only.
its up to you stu. you are one of the less people who can actually effect something, because everyone trusts and respects you.
I think it is possible to improve this game but therefor we need something like a "contest". Ask the community for help. Write a newspost about something like a contest where the user with the best idea to improve our game gets a private server for one month (actually i dont think that a prize is needed, but who knows).
so what i tried to say is that you cant do this stuff alone. we are one community, which wants to help.
I got away with knowing jackshit about the game ;-)
About 1,5 year ago people were raging about new maps. I thought I'd get busy and start making a map which resulted in missile. ABSOLUTELY not the perfect map, but damn, the times I asked for help there were maybe 5/10 people who would give regular feedback. This just ain't enough to come up with a good map.
Same like yesterday, I post a journal posting a new concept of a map that is simply a mix between ET's 2 best maps (goldrush and radar). I get a few good responses and a nice aditional idea to the map sent to me by someone, and the rest are just bullshit. For me to make sure I should make this map I HAVE to be positive it will work. I'm not going to waste 3 months creating a map that won't be played.
If you still want to comment please do: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=90883
Or send me a pm, with improvements or just saying you like it.
[/rage off]
edit: Same with the mapping contest I had a while ago. Creating a contest that might make it a bit more fun and even get involved in some ET business. Razzah, chosen and 1 other guy were the only ones who send in serious map sketches.
That just ain't enough from a 30.000 membered community.
are we signed up to the competition with this map? :p
xeoxis on 25/09/09, 22:35:50 Del | Edit | Reply
Only once you pm it to me with full description and legenda.
goldrush + radar style
though, if you unintentionally made wrong choices you can either let it be as it is or admit ur mistakes and fix it with a way you think is correct. No need to 'recruit' toxics for a simple task like that. And it looks very stupid trying to blame players because "they are not doing anything", most of are not ready for admining but id guess pretty much everyone would answer if he/she was asked something of and wouldnt that be what admins should be doing anyway instead of throwing their own random guesses on the table
We need this kind of brainwashing technique here on the admin team!
point beeing that i dont how it was possible to create it as it is atm, Krosan and everyone else involved should've noticed it before seeing the flame from newspost. Every damn random could make better list. And yes Krosan is blamed because lets say he didn't make it unhappen either and he has been only one in the spotlights lately.
That a top player should be an admin is not the key requirement, but including them in decisions is.
I had the luxury of having a close network of top players which I could easily run ideas by. That ensured you had all factors taken in and some critical support by the necessary people.
I cannot speak for Krosan and the likes on how close their relationship is with players, but if they don't then adding people into the team is the fastest solution to this problem.
But all in all, it is an admins responsibility to proactively ask people and listen...then find the right path and make the call.
\Rhand cross-sell
Ye, as I remember the only major decision made by that focus group was to keep EC with standard maps and force OC teams to play missile. Heh...
What we need to improve the community and the game in my honest opinion, is a change of attitude. And I speak out of my own experience from being an admin and a contributor.
We all know cf is full of trolls who whine at just about anything that comes their way, but we also have a lot of med to top skilled players who whine just as much and don't contribute anything other than flame. Other interesting people then just don't want to engage in any discussion anymore because all they get is retarded replies anyway. If we want to achieve something, we can use all the feedback from all the possible directions we can. If people would just start discussing stuff constructively, then we'd be a lot closer to progression.
Let me illustrate my point with this: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=news&mode=item&id=5240
The Blight team gets a shitload of pm's every day asking for the configs and so forth, yet so many people find it necessary to write bullshit comments like "omg we gonna be pro now". Even top players think they're cool if they write "gonna be as good as night now". Why don't they just either contribute something constructively or gtfo. Contributing stuff like Blight's latest newsposts can't hurt anyone and makes a lot of people happy.
Same goes for all the other contributions to crossfire. Instead of showing some appreciation - and if something could be changed/made better, giving feedback - people just post the same crap as usual. Why would you expect anyone to try and contribute, if the only thing you're going to get back is flame?
I posted so many newsitems lately and I constantly get insults thrown at my head. I seem to be a nerd who should "go write some more newsposts", I seem to be overusing admin rights while I'm the most active and thus most visible admin at the moment, and people like Gambit just find it amusing to get on my nerves. You people should realise I'm only doing this because I love ET and have not much to do at my work so I'd like to spend my time helping you guys achieve something with ET. I don't look at myself as an ET-saviour or whatever, people like TosspoT, eiM, sol, essAh, and so many more have done a lot more before me, I'm just trying to do a good job here. The point I'm making is that if I get so much flame thrown at me, then it's logical people don't wanna contribute.
Regarding the mappool, it's still CIC7, which means any skill can participate. If you'd be making a mappool for the EC for example, then Homer's idea would be great, with a poll between the participating teams. But CIC7 isn't only for the top teams, so everyone should have a say in it. You don't have to be high skilled to know what maps are good. Lower skilled players can just as well contribute ideas than people like Clown. And if it weren't for the low or med teams, the top teams wouldn't have a prizepurse to fight for, and CIC7 wouldn't have ET as a main game. So I beg to differ that only top players should have a say in the mappool, instead we should have a funded discussion about the maps and looking at all possible options before making a decision. It's quite ignorant to claim that low skilled people can't have good ideas or decent opinions.
If you take a look at the mappool newsitem, you can see many people are giving their opinions, but do you think many of those are actually funded opinions? I think many of them are just jumping on the bandwagon. If you don't believe me, look at how many people still believe I picked the mappool, just because Clown claimed I did. People read something, and then replicate that idea without thinking twice or criticising that idea. However, if people would engage in a constructive discussion, we'd have a lot more funded opinions. This is another reason why people should be a little more concerned about what they write on topics like these.
I'm more a spectator than a player, even though I do play on CIC7. And I know a lot of the ET community watches ETTV frequently. That's why I find spectator-value to be a factor of a certain significance in choosing a mappool. All you top players probably don't give a fuck about these ETTV players you call fanboys, but they are exactly what ET needs to become a bigger game. More players is the key to ET obtaining a bigger role in the eSports world. So spectator-value should matter, although the fairness of the maps should always be the most important factor. That brings me to the luck-factor. Every good game contains a portion of luck. And the true skill lays in who can limit the chances of that luck-factor to manifest. Take poker for example. You can calculate your moves and minimize the luck, but of course if there's 1% chance of getting a bad card at the river, that still might happen. If you play smart, you'll mostly win, if you play dumb, luck will be a bigger factor. And luck is what makes a game interesting. If there wouldn't be luck, why bother playing the game as you already know the outcome before the match even starts. That's why maps such as adler and frost are good choices.
This is of course my opinion, but I think it has a lot of valid points. I'm not saying these kind of maps have to be in the mappool, I'm just giving my view on things. Now if you all agree with what Clown said about me, my opinion should mean jack shit. Well I beg to differ.
If people would just start discussing things seriously without the flame & whine, and appreciate the efforts of the contributors, then we'd be a lot closer to our mutual goals.
This might be a bad example but when I wrote the nationscup lineups I wasn't going to post it because I would have been flamed no matter how good it was (That's why I sent it to Anaconda in a PM instead).
I don't get why people aren't thankful for the fact we have a big Community for a free game and amazing stuff like ETTV, which isn't even comparable to the TV in RtCW for example (in ET its like being on the server). Other stuff like YaWN, Yae and of course the PBBans all help the community stay together, but we need something that makes it grow. The lans are good exposure (for example, the CoD tourney can get some sponsors opening their eyes to ET, but I'm not that optimistic atm).
QFT.
You probably didn't even play ET at the time when for example "great" map like reactor was played in Quakecon in 5on5 format. It won't work. Few players might like it, but that won't help as it will be dead after one wasted season that could be used to try out really new map.
That is my only problem with you (hink it was you as I don't remember who made that map list but only your name I can remember), especially after that Intel sunday cup map poll thing.
I might seem like angry cunt spewing venom of hatred and aids all over admins, but I really do appreciate work they put in ET. That blight config/pracc ETTV thing you mentioned, I find most of replies there facepalm worthy. I don't need it, most EC or even OC players don't need. But there are "noobs" or "fanbois" or just curious (gay?!) players who will find contributions like these worthy. Yet indeed it seems very cool to make posts showing that you don't care and how awesome you are for doing that.
e:
to add to my reply to decem, about it being hard for new maps to be accepted, I for one hated and flamed bremen when it was out, yet with time i started to like it. Most players do. It is still being played in pracs, cup's in EC and in OC. Why? Cause it's good map. (that applies to 6on6!) Can you say that about braundorf&co?
The Blight team gets a shitload of pm's every day asking for the configs and so forth, yet so many people find it necessary to write bullshit comments like "omg we gonna be pro now". Even top players think they're cool if they write "gonna be as good as night now". Why don't they just either contribute something constructively or gtfo. Contributing stuff like Blight's latest newsposts can't hurt anyone and makes a lot of people happy.
Same goes for all the other contributions to crossfire. Instead of showing some appreciation - and if something could be changed/made better, giving feedback - people just post the same crap as usual. Why would you expect anyone to try and contribute, if the only thing you're going to get back is flame?
its internet. get used to it
You're essentially asking people to not say what they want to say, but instead to 'play nice' because it 'makes people happy'. Sigh.
I'd probably reply at length but I've got places to be and I'm sure you'd just dismiss it with another moronic "I don't like what you said so I'm going to assume you didn't understand" style response.
Take usual map like radar/sd/gr
Then make a pool only for the team who are willing to play CIC 7 with delivery & co.
Homer did it for EC and it was nice. Of course it's just my point o view but i'm sure its the best way.
You need to have a select group that discusses maps with each other. People can change their mind if they talk to other people. That's why a direct poll is full of prejudices.
5 or 6 maps and here we go. Simple as DO RE MI
but hey, it was you who decided to do the admin work and it was us who decided to be the players and i dont see the reason why i should invest time in admining some things while i already have to prac smth like 3 hours every day during the week. you seriously want us to do double the work eventho we dont do less to keep the game alive by spending so much time to actually master it, entertain people by playing so many games on ettv and paying like 300-400€ twice a year to attend the lans.
why dont you just listen to our ideas instead of insulting us whenever we try to "improve" smth?
AND BTW!!! it is NOT possible for us to do any major changes without someone like you in our back so pls stop claiming that for example I could just snip my fingers and change the things I dont like as you say all the time. at the moment ive got the feeling the only way to represent your opinion on leagues and stuff is to boycott the game which hopefully isnt your intention.
Should I be deleting my buddylist instead?
Last time people whined about ETTV servers being worse than your average clanserver a shitstorm was started because you can't possible say those servers are lagging cause they are free and any critism is deemed unfair / unwanted / etc.
Are you serious? You honestly believe that you're doing people a favour by playing. There are 10,000 players (guessimate) and there are only a handful of admins, if you quit snoop which you've regularly threatened to do there will be another player to take your place - the game will not suffer. If Adacore quits, the LANs that you enjoy will suffer.
and yes, i do people a favour by playing looking at the hundrets of people i sent my config to or the endless hours ive spent showing them tricks on a server, playing 1on1 against them, helping their teams make tactics and much more. so if you pls could stop pretending you are the only guys putting work in this game.
and another thing you seem to forget is that people still appriciate your work eventho they dont agree on everything. i really much appriciate there is crossfire, the crossfire lans, gamestv servers, quadv on demand, ettv on demand and stuff but why cant i just tell my opinion if smth isnt perfect about that? i seriously dont get that x)
my reaction on the ec final had nothing to do with being upset of the lost good start we had. it was because i told the admins that exactly this will happen and they didnt react + the fact that the community seemed to be happy about the game being fucked up reading all the "haha" comments and stuff.
and why is it a problem i dont like 5on5? first of all it isnt only me who complains about it, its the majority of the top players who dont agree on it.
looking at the fact you attack me with saying i suck in et and being carried by my team just shows me that you are bitter about the fact you ll never achieve the same i did in et. maybe i would understand it if you were a better player than me but this is just ridiculous since you are ... how am i gonna say it ... a really bad player in my opinion. no personal attack or smth, i dont know you but this is my opinion.
and no, i dont think im a great contributer but still i think im doing much more than the casual gamer does. and another difference between me and the casual contributer is that im doing stuff like this because i really enjoy helping in et and rl and i dont want anything in return since its enough for me see i could help them. this however, seems to be the total difference here since admins so often freak out if you dont appriciate their work which isnt, except for a few events, not so much work to be honest.
yes its possible some people ive played with in the past dont like me and dont wanna play with me again. but the fact is, i polarise. people either love or hate me and im pretty ok with that and if people cant get along with the fact its getting louder during pracs i cant help it.
and thing you said about my criticism being right sometimes just the way i saw it isnt professional or smth: it shouldnt matter how you say some things since it will get to the same point. i mean, you can say you are ugly or you are not beautiful. it will lead to the same thing and people who look at things like this instead of the actual content are rather dumb in my opinion.
and im not trying to make myself look like a victim since it doesnt affect me only. im just trying to say that people shouldnt react so stupid on true critizism and should actually behave more like they would do irl and dont write stupid stuff about looks or smth on not related topics.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH implying CoD4 players don't whine and bitch all the time hahahahahahaha
hahhahah
ahahahah
hahaha
haha
hah
from what i've seen cod4 is like the only game that rivals wow when it comes to mental age of its competitive scene
getting 1 person on full is not difficult or skilled and should not give you "such an advantage"
"i don't like your argument so i'm going to ignore it and assume it's just because you can't accept change"
when advocates of 5on5 stop acting like that i'll start caring about what they have to say about the format
The problem in ET is the part of the community that does nothing else but troll journals. Top player whine is the same almost in every game, as I said, Q3/QL/Cod4 might be even worse.
Also, I don't know why you would be promoted to admin(?)(as i saw in some comment), if you didn't agree to my point of having top team players decide mapslists and other changes.
Kinda funny if you ask me :)
8D?
I might consider starting to write a new article series still though. I don't know if people still do remember the Clan of the Week series I was writing for cadred.org (CotW #1, CotW #2, CotW #3), but I got pretty positive feedback about them back then and could start writing something similiar about the top-tier CIC7 teams if people are interested
FUCK OFF
While I'm here I may as well take back that statement though, seeing as I've been working on something for past few months in the background in cooperation with some players but was put back till recently to see how this 5v5 business panned out.
In future I'll try hold back on grumpy posts like my previous ones :)
no-one seems to care when top players among everyone else including spectators tell 5on5 is worse than 6on6.
I actually think twidi is a great shout for an admin, there are very few "top" players that dont have a huge ego and are actually quite stupid who i would hate to see as an admin, twidi however i would imagine to be a very fair admin, with respect to ross i would prefer twidi simply because i think he will add a bit more balance, <3 ross though ;)
YEAH I'LL OFFER TO BE AN ADMIN AFTER SAYING I DISAGREE THAT TOPPLAYERS SHOULD BE ADMINS. SURELY NOT EGOTRIPPING THERE.
\Rhand cross-sell irrelevant comment as this be so late to the argument this shit was sorted an age ago :v
On Topic:
Well, this is interesting.
A lot of good points are proven and a lot of perspectives are being shown. But all seems to be forgotten in this cloud of bitterness where personal vendettas take over discussions like this and the community has to suffer.
What's the problem with being nice to each other?
I'd say that I'm a quite experienced admin, I can't compare my experiences towards you lot's, but I've still faced a lot of similar decisions that you have to take everyday here. I know it's probably me being naïve and that it is impossible to satisfy everyone, but personal attacking and general insults should not be necissary at this level. Some members are of course pure idiots that lacks common sense. These can be ignored though..
Which I believe it is.
who is the retard now?
What defines a complete retard?
Who is a complete retard?
You? Me? Snoop? Tosspot? Ensam?
I'm not being offensive now and I'm definitely not taking any side, I am merely pointing out that I find your statement there a tad bit ridiculous :/
There should be admins, as usual, but also below that there could be a group of top players (around 10-15, maybe more) who can assess the ideas the admins have and give an honest opinion. This would stop admins implementing strange rules (such as 5on5 for all cups/ladders) which most of the community seem to disagree with, but use because they still want to play. About 90% of the comments on 5on5/6on6 discussions from top players have said that 6on6 is the obvious choice, but without power, they can do nothing about it.
hope you had a nice read! got a bit serious for a second there :DDD
On a slightly related note;
I got fed up with the lack of QL coverage so i just did it myself. The concept relates to everything.
"If you're that bothered to whine about it, be bothered to stop whining.. step up and do it yourself!"
However, once the general gaming whiners can't whine about lack of X anymore, they find something else to whine about i.e. once you solve the map debate, they'll whine about something else :D A never ending cycle that you should ignore, but you can't ignore.
I'd put my money on it relating back to specifically the U18's. Shove an age requirement on everything and you're almost guaranteed to have the perfect community - just alot more inactive and that's what we don't need, in ET and everything else alike.
Although that's not to say i havn't seen my fare share of mature, unbias younger players stepping up in other scenes. I just beleive you need the impossible ability to filter out the crap, which usually comes when players try and be admins - they have their own oppinions, and especially of maps that they will also have to play themselves.
Unless every player trains the same way, using the same equipment, on the same internet connection and plays the same style as everybody else. You'll never please everyone. So in some ways i disagree with the concept of "non-cunt" admins. You need to have patience, power and the ability to make final decisions, taking the flak that comes with it.
The only realistic way of achieving something that people will accept is to hold a community vote of those involved in a specific competition, achievied at crossfire lan as considered included once you pay the entry fee. Which is time wasting and i know i'd CBA it. But you'd lay out all the maps that are potentially viable and total the vote scores. Most voted maps get put into the pool. People can't direct abuse specifically and they know it was a majority vote, not a vote of admins who either a) arn't playing themselves so they can't possibly know, or b) top players who prefer 'x' maps because they are good on them (from the immature perspective).
:\
so im sry for you
Yet there are loads of "noobs" fucking "medskillers" who really enjoy the game and want to contribute. If you scroll up a bit you can see it. Why they don't really do it - cuz they get flamed by all other "smart" kids on this site.
Also you can't really expect anymore if you are an unknown player not to get flamed cuz yes CF is full of kids or imature players who will only flame over players that in their opinion don't have the "game skill" yet they will try to get in one of "top player's" ass even when one posts a stupid shit comment.
I know i'm not the one to talk over anyone here cuz prooly i never really tried to do/help CF or ET. But goin over these articles and comments and hearing others out, it gives you a preety clear picture of how things stand.
Basicaly we could talk about this topic forever...but hey folks "talking is not walking" so if we really have to read these sorta articles/posts/comments everyday, why not consider atleast for once to do some walking instead of just talking ey?!
Btw lastly no offence to anyone ;) (btw im also a fucking low skiller)