Consensus by committee is a much derided form of management – criticisms include a tendency towards appeasement and an easy middle ground. But this week the Clanbase, Crossfire & AEF admins, in partnership with the ET Committee fought back against the trend and made an alteration that caused outrage.
But there’s one question on everybody’s lips - who are the shadowy group of pros that’re now steering the future of the game? Similarly what is it that has prompted this current crop of admins to consummate their relationship with the pros and what motivates the players to get involved?
To understand the current committee we must first look at the history of decision making in Enemy Territory. There’s always been a tempestuous mix of admin leadership, player consultation and community backlash. This was how Kajab first brought in the removal of XP, how Cash limited the spam and how TosspoT pushed through 5on5. All important decisions that weren’t taken without thorough discussion; discussion with the relevant admins, experienced community members and the highskill players themselves. Although never once were these three groups of community members collated into one weighted committee.
So this week we delve into the deep recesses of the ET Committee. How does it work? Who is involved? What does it do?
The ET Committee is a group of players, admins and team managers brought together in the April of this year to discuss the configs, structure and tournament settings for the recently announced AEF LAN tournament. The membership sought to include those attending AEF, with a few exceptions, and one from each clan. Under the leadership of Krosan their overall aim was to fine tune the gameplay elements of the 5 v 5 format. Their purpose was to advise Krosan on maps, slight alterations to the configs and give feedback on any new tactics or exploits that negatively impacted the game giving a real time alternative to the close minded administrator perspective. Theirs was a broad church in which players were free to make suggestions and set the discussion – under the close guise of Krosan.
This initial relatively small group was later expanded to directly include representatives from ClanBase and the ESL whilst incorporating yet further a larger poule of the high skill talent.
• The Structure
The ET Committee works in the flexible open environment of a private irc channel. A point of discussion is set in the topic with players invited to offer their opinion on a broad range of topics.
There is no set meeting time and discussion took place over a number of months. Each clan member offered their perspective and relayed that of their teams. There was no formal voting and Krosan merely took onboard the viewpoints of its members.
This formulation appears to have been a positive one allowing for a freedom not usually allowed when discussing change with a hostile community.
Although in theory the ET Committee might appear a relatively contrived and formal the reality is a stark difference. It’s a sprawling mass of discussion veering from the relevant to the inane. It is as you would expect any irc channel of this nature to be – the mundane mixed in with the sublime. Topics of conversation veer from cheating to spawntimes, clan progression to supply. But each and every step is necessary to further in the players and the admins acceptance of one-another allowing for a greater dialogue down the road. Every conversation has a purpose and every segway a reason. The mood was a sanguine one.
This however was not a constant as tempers flared when the discussion turned to that of spawntimes on Frostbite. A test tournament was agreed in principle but days later as discussion took place in private this decision was reversed, without apparent reasoning given to the channel as a whole. This lack of a test tournament and more specifically the lack of open debate so angered Clown that he later left the channel and the committee in frustration. No longer playing a role in the decision making process. His cited reasoning being that the ET Committee did not live up to expectations and he believed certain members carried greater sway than others – which was not what he signed up for. However this member left their stamp having created the much vaunted Supply trickjump script. But these small hiccups only further cemented the committee’s eagerness to leave a legacy on the AEF tournament.
Whilst a noble pursuit the ET Committee does have a number of detractors, not all without substance. A lack of serious detailed discussion between all the members; as opposed to the most vociferous, would be the major failing of this committee. Discussion rarely veered beyond a few paragraphs and the arguments for and against were never fully debated. Perhaps the early departure of a more outspoken committee member meant players were more reticent to disagree. An alternative perspective could be that whether by design or coincidence there was relatively few dissenting voices within the ET Committee. They all broadly agreed on the topics up for discussion, with only the most outlandish suggestions; such as nerfing riflenades, causing contention.
Further questions on the legitimacy of the ET Committee could also be raised as to its makeup. Is there an over representation of the Engineer class? With over a third of the active players involved regularly playing Engineer should there be any surprise that the point of discussion tended to focus around mines and the limiting of rifle grenades? Each and every class gives a player a different perspective of the game. Medics love to frag, the revive and the fluidity of the game. Engineers love to spam and cause chaos. Could this over representation have caused a bias? Looking at the discussion that took place I don’t believe this to be the case. The players involved are all experienced and know only too well the consequent damage that their rivals could also do with the increased spam. I’d also consider it a fault to question the trickjumping skills of the participants – as all have proven themselves at a consistently high level. These negatives should not detract from the overall aim and suggestions put in place by the ET Committee – and one should only remember the standard of play by those that’ve pushed through some of the greatest and highest impacting changes in our history. Was Cash ever anything more than a pub star?
The reality of the ET Committee and how it worked in practice was to give legitimacy to suggestions made by the admins and at the extremities to flush out the most terrible ideas.
As their conclusions were made public the ET Committees reaction’ to the community backlash was one of utter surprise, bordering on a flippant disregard to community feedback. But this is no great surprise when you consider the ET Committee spanned four months and all the members are heavily invested, considering the consultation process and the eventual outcome to be a fair one that’ll positively impact the game – with all the changes suggested having been extensively tested beforehand.
All that’s left is for Krosan to have his word:
It remains to be seen whether these new changes will bring about a revelation in the game; and further still, whether this ET Committee has the authority and the strength to continue its input. Have we seen a revolution in the way the future decisions of Enemy Territory are made? Only time will tell.
But there’s one question on everybody’s lips - who are the shadowy group of pros that’re now steering the future of the game? Similarly what is it that has prompted this current crop of admins to consummate their relationship with the pros and what motivates the players to get involved?
To understand the current committee we must first look at the history of decision making in Enemy Territory. There’s always been a tempestuous mix of admin leadership, player consultation and community backlash. This was how Kajab first brought in the removal of XP, how Cash limited the spam and how TosspoT pushed through 5on5. All important decisions that weren’t taken without thorough discussion; discussion with the relevant admins, experienced community members and the highskill players themselves. Although never once were these three groups of community members collated into one weighted committee.
So this week we delve into the deep recesses of the ET Committee. How does it work? Who is involved? What does it do?
The ET Committee is a group of players, admins and team managers brought together in the April of this year to discuss the configs, structure and tournament settings for the recently announced AEF LAN tournament. The membership sought to include those attending AEF, with a few exceptions, and one from each clan. Under the leadership of Krosan their overall aim was to fine tune the gameplay elements of the 5 v 5 format. Their purpose was to advise Krosan on maps, slight alterations to the configs and give feedback on any new tactics or exploits that negatively impacted the game giving a real time alternative to the close minded administrator perspective. Theirs was a broad church in which players were free to make suggestions and set the discussion – under the close guise of Krosan.
This initial relatively small group was later expanded to directly include representatives from ClanBase and the ESL whilst incorporating yet further a larger poule of the high skill talent.
• The Structure
The ET Committee works in the flexible open environment of a private irc channel. A point of discussion is set in the topic with players invited to offer their opinion on a broad range of topics.
There is no set meeting time and discussion took place over a number of months. Each clan member offered their perspective and relayed that of their teams. There was no formal voting and Krosan merely took onboard the viewpoints of its members.
This formulation appears to have been a positive one allowing for a freedom not usually allowed when discussing change with a hostile community.
Although in theory the ET Committee might appear a relatively contrived and formal the reality is a stark difference. It’s a sprawling mass of discussion veering from the relevant to the inane. It is as you would expect any irc channel of this nature to be – the mundane mixed in with the sublime. Topics of conversation veer from cheating to spawntimes, clan progression to supply. But each and every step is necessary to further in the players and the admins acceptance of one-another allowing for a greater dialogue down the road. Every conversation has a purpose and every segway a reason. The mood was a sanguine one.
This however was not a constant as tempers flared when the discussion turned to that of spawntimes on Frostbite. A test tournament was agreed in principle but days later as discussion took place in private this decision was reversed, without apparent reasoning given to the channel as a whole. This lack of a test tournament and more specifically the lack of open debate so angered Clown that he later left the channel and the committee in frustration. No longer playing a role in the decision making process. His cited reasoning being that the ET Committee did not live up to expectations and he believed certain members carried greater sway than others – which was not what he signed up for. However this member left their stamp having created the much vaunted Supply trickjump script. But these small hiccups only further cemented the committee’s eagerness to leave a legacy on the AEF tournament.
Whilst a noble pursuit the ET Committee does have a number of detractors, not all without substance. A lack of serious detailed discussion between all the members; as opposed to the most vociferous, would be the major failing of this committee. Discussion rarely veered beyond a few paragraphs and the arguments for and against were never fully debated. Perhaps the early departure of a more outspoken committee member meant players were more reticent to disagree. An alternative perspective could be that whether by design or coincidence there was relatively few dissenting voices within the ET Committee. They all broadly agreed on the topics up for discussion, with only the most outlandish suggestions; such as nerfing riflenades, causing contention.
Further questions on the legitimacy of the ET Committee could also be raised as to its makeup. Is there an over representation of the Engineer class? With over a third of the active players involved regularly playing Engineer should there be any surprise that the point of discussion tended to focus around mines and the limiting of rifle grenades? Each and every class gives a player a different perspective of the game. Medics love to frag, the revive and the fluidity of the game. Engineers love to spam and cause chaos. Could this over representation have caused a bias? Looking at the discussion that took place I don’t believe this to be the case. The players involved are all experienced and know only too well the consequent damage that their rivals could also do with the increased spam. I’d also consider it a fault to question the trickjumping skills of the participants – as all have proven themselves at a consistently high level. These negatives should not detract from the overall aim and suggestions put in place by the ET Committee – and one should only remember the standard of play by those that’ve pushed through some of the greatest and highest impacting changes in our history. Was Cash ever anything more than a pub star?
The reality of the ET Committee and how it worked in practice was to give legitimacy to suggestions made by the admins and at the extremities to flush out the most terrible ideas.
As their conclusions were made public the ET Committees reaction’ to the community backlash was one of utter surprise, bordering on a flippant disregard to community feedback. But this is no great surprise when you consider the ET Committee spanned four months and all the members are heavily invested, considering the consultation process and the eventual outcome to be a fair one that’ll positively impact the game – with all the changes suggested having been extensively tested beforehand.
All that’s left is for Krosan to have his word:
It remains to be seen whether these new changes will bring about a revelation in the game; and further still, whether this ET Committee has the authority and the strength to continue its input. Have we seen a revolution in the way the future decisions of Enemy Territory are made? Only time will tell.
Anyone for a game of ET Top Trumps? :O)
everything is here
so hilarious that I won't even comment it
It makes sense
Also fuck the commitee.
Also got given logs etc on the basis I wouldn't post them / apportion blame / single people out. It's just a summary of how things worked - if those involved wanna say more that's their place to do so.
the internet generation, anything over 100 words is considered a wall of text :DD
Hate to break it to you, but the "admins" and you, being head ET admin for AEF aren't SHIT without the community.
Please, get the fuck out of here.
You and the CB admins are in a position that you were given by the time, money and opportunities of others, so start living up to this instead of being an egotistical asshole.
e: the "You" in this, being Krosan, as the quotes above are his.
Maybe thats because eventhough everyone whines, they still keep playing, admins know this and know that they can (ab)use it :P
Other people set up CB and they're using the trouble these people went through to set up a good thing to boost their own ego's cause they know nobody else wants to go through the trouble of setting up something similar.
why is clown no longer a member?
Although in theory the ET Committee might appear a relatively contrived and formal the reality is a stark difference.
omg nellie is back with his weird ass english
Glad I dont game no more.
I call for TosspoT to come sort this mess out.
Remember it was TosspoT who wanted to bring in 5on5 2 years before everyone else.
like someone else said "Funny qualifications too, active players who actually achieved something were hard to find or ? "
Funny qualifications too, active players who actually achieved something were hard to find or ?
i really want to know who is krosan? Where was he , like 2/3 years ago? why is he deciding about the "future" of ET? why is he a CF admin? why does he has the power to do that? why is he always a dickhead with ppl that he doesnt know? why is he a noob cf admin?
would be a bit weird if I came to you and asked "yo are you paying them to play?"
funny I just remembered that now after a few years when razzah mentioned fatgames
He got all this flame about the sunglasses, but I gotta say (and no homo), killerm8 looks good without them shades :D
This game is 9(?) year old. The (most important) changes that were needed have been made long ago. The huge discussions we had on xfire were some years ago, I don't see any big discussion anymore with 500+ comments. Now no one cares anymore if a new map is added because let's face it, that's all there is to decide.
This column gives us the impression that this ET committee is an integral & necessary part of ET while the opposite is true, it's not really needed. Ok, if this committee would have been created some years ago, I understand, but now??
"No one cares anymore if a new map is added"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. SO. FUCKING. WRONG. NOT ENOUGH WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE FOR HOW WRONG YOU ARE.
"This column makes us feel that this ET committee is an integral part of ET while the opposite is true, we could easily do without it."
This column isn't meant to make you feel anything. Sure, ET could do without it. But why would it? If there are decisions to be made to better the game, why not use the committee?
Braundorf is beeing hated by 50% of the players and beeing loved by the other 50%, from which 45% is from the eastern part of Europe (Poland...).
Frostbite's been in and out for years, hate it or love it 50/50
Delivery tried hard, but failed in the end (ãt least, people whine about it every single time it's on the vote...). I like it though ;P
Bremen: been in and out aswell, I remember it beeing out of the mappool last CDC? No idea why... Probably because many people don't seem to like it.
Adlernest: same as frostbite.
Many maps have been there but didn't do it. Secret Weapon, Karsiah and Cathedral were all nice initiatives, but in the end (now) these maps aren't beeing played.
I agree with you on the fact ET needs new maps, but history proved that it's simply not possible to make them work and to add them into a mappool. How many maps have been made by eim (if I remember correctly) and how many of them are beeing played in big leagues and cups; none.
You bring up some good points about it being mainly engineer players in the channel, which i never noticed either, however stuff like not being able to jump the main wall doesnt have any influence on how some of us decided to remove the jump. Hell, i can even do that jump backwards, it has got to the point where it is so easy to do that 80% of the community can do it. At least now we will see some actual skill and teamwork when it comes to trickjumps, like boosting and the west rock jump. All members on impact can actually do the main jump, so i obviously didnt decided against it because i felt it didnt benefit us.
I dont think ppl realise that other situations such as this have been introduced in other games, with certain things being limited etc. At first it was received negatively, in the end it worked out for the better of the game.
The past few months, well illustrated by abort's interview, have become very boring and predictable with fresh changes needing introducing. I admit that there hasnt been a great deal of change, however this will only be the start and hopefully new ideas such as maps will eventually get introduced.
On a side note, i didnt know you were gonna write a rather negative column - otherwise i would have made u use a sensible picture. Then again, im probably known as a drunk or a retard, either way im sure the picture suits me well ;)
You know what, let's remove the main entrance, its too damn easy to get through.
e: Also, I do not see how the removal of a trickjump brings more players to ET.
This means that either the whole attack wave at either one of those entrances will be delayed or that the failing jumper will have to come in late taking away part of the attack's strength.
Trickjumping is indeed part of this game and I do not see why this lack of punishment for failure, you see, should be a reason to remove it. This trickjump gives the map and extra thing to watch, thus an extra challenge for the defenders, if the attackers use it right. It's not a matter of just jumping over the wall, killing two or three guys and winning one or two stages. In my eyes this jump can just be part of another attacking strategy. Taking it away means we have a couple of strategies less, meaning the game gets more predictable. Are we not looking for excitement? It's things like the feeling that an underdoug can gain on it's opponent by using a well-timed jump that make me want to watch games. It not onlt makes me want to watch. It makes me anxious and try to use it as a weapon myself.
But hey, after all, I'm only a med- player, so I guess my opinion isn't really worth anything.
We will see how this decision will have it's impact at the game. Thanks for explaining yourself.
... seriously ...
you have to get to main/east anyways. If you fail the jump you just continue to east / main, so at best you lost 2-3 seconds which is negligable and usually the time you need to wait anyways to dodge the timed spam.
At least you bother explaining your idea's and thoughts, cant say the same about Krosan......running this bitch like a nazi, including the censorship and not giving a fuck about others. see the resemblance?? :_D
Im sorry Krosan, but isnt your 'ET Committee' based on making the game better for the community? If you choose whos in your 'Committee' without looking at the view of the players, it becomes a sad bunch of yes-men agreeing to every ridiculous mistake you make...
and how will it be "tested", who will provide the feedback?
So in other words agree with Krosan or you are retarded/clueless. Someone in your position should have more respect for those in the community. But maybe I expect too much from an admin in a small computer game.
In regards to your "committee", it does not represent the views of the majority of the community (see poll) and so is not effective in its purpose. Clearly there are some people that just shouldn't be there.
This debate was here since a few years already. Krosan follows elitaristic tendencies.
1. We are merely focused on the actual competitive side of ET. Should we not also focus on public games? Why hasn't anyone created a well balanced configuration for public games?
2. People are not born being high+. What's with all the fuzz about skilllevels. Our future is in fresh low players. Keeping them playing will give ET a future. Make ET more fun for 'the regular players' and they will train and get better.
Maybe, Krosan, these polls are not so ridiculous. I do not like the way you speak of 'top players'. Isn't the opinion of intelligent 'non-top players' valuable too? Aren't we all looking for one thing out here? When did we stop focusing on this very thing, fun?
Perhaps it's time for the ET community to become partly democratic.
The whole story sounds so serious in comparison with the site.
The people that have been chosen are just really awesome ,the one that's actually someone you can talk to has a cross in his picture. And from his point i would quit also :]
Also from urtier and drago i would respect their opinions.
What revolution, it's still with the wrong people and also what future? There isn't any.
Well gl sorting the future of ET with this board hope they are qualified for the job!
so btw, i hope you will write that on your curriculum vitae !!
and last but not the least, 11 guys, who will made the girl ?
>respected
>Gifted
laughingface
same goes to krosan, killerboy and dialer
jere, evo and ross are in between
and The North Korea of ET was born.
It also wouldnt hurt to get the oppinion of some lower skilled players/managers/admins to give some input from a totally different point of view.
- Add a player from Masculine Mans / F5. Sample/Matias/chmpp/Squall would be great picks, even if you took 2 of them.
- Would like to see at least one member from Netherlands, maybe Perfo / teKoa / Lightning?
- As mentioned above, also players from lower skill-levels should be noticed. Maybe some former high-skilled player who has settled to play some just4fun-mixwars with his friends.. or something. :D
I don't even like the idea of having "ET-committee" but wanted to write something.
Doesn't matter if most people don't like him, 95% of the community won't come to the LAN and those who will come will be nice and friendly as usual because they're too scared to say negative stuff in real life.
Regardless how much effort you have put in this Krosan, you did it for a select group of people as you think the community are just a bunch of idiots.
Aren't they?
anyone from f5, Lepari?
AHHAHAHAHAAH
ps: Players who agree with these changes are just ballsucking-turds trying to get an invite for this conspiracy.
e: Just read that the jump is reinstated and I think you need to stop with the egotrips (+1 frozz).
hahaha krosan, sounds like totalitarianism to me :) but who were you 2-3 years ago? and then again what are you now and why are u making this, reading that sentence,almost on your own? just because you are a crossfire admin and head admin for lan that is held once a year?
You should stop being an arrogant twat. I appreciate your work, but man, seriously, stop at some point.
not to mention what kind of people you invited to YOUR project.why inviting 2 belgians that are both pretty much new to the game(not to mention gifted's involvement with his cheating friends or being him ex cheater as well?) and whats up with the so "less" skilled people, they are also a big part of the game, way bigger than you think. this project is simply fail, and thats because of people discussing about it (excluding twidi, urtier, drago & admins(and clown who left with a reason)).i find it also funny that both you and evo got along with those "SKILLED" people with money at first :> and now you are up to change ET and make it popular everywheree...only talking with skilled players wont give you all knowledge you think you have or you will need.It's also lovely how you are behaving towards people that aren't so "known" while you are random yourself.
I wasnt flaming you in earlier affairs but this, this is just too much.
About the Danish lan or whatever LAN I replied that on, I was being clear because I don't have holidays left, and can't be bothered to pay for a plane ticket + pay my LAN expenses while adminning. I'm not claiming to be a perfect admin that should get a luxury package because I do such a good job. Just being straight. Yes it's a bit arrogant, my bad.
About the first quote, managing an ET lan isn't easy. There are a lot of decisions to be made which are quite important. For the CC lan there are about 4 people deciding together what will and will not happen, and for this AEF lan I was on my own. I had to find some feedback from players, and this is the tool I use. Tosspot also doesn't go around asking the entire community about each and every decision. I use this group of people I trust. And yes, I can do whatever I want with it.
You saw that line, and thought about me being a dictator ruling over ET. Nothing is further from the truth. The decisions that are being made with their feedback, are for the AEF lan. Things such as schedules are being relayed through them to see if it's acceptable. That's how far the decision-part goes. Anything about config changes that can change ET are merely proposals which are being tested in the summercup. It's not even sure that it will be in the AEF lan. Perhaps it's too late to be tested, but don't forget that the summercup has now already 2 weeks delay, not my fault. But if putting proposals into testing qualifies me for dictatorship, then I wonder what TosspoT was when he kept braundorf in the CiC7 mappool.
Eventhough I'm satisfied with all changes, very well satisfied, that doesnt mean it's neccessarily good, since my opinion about sd jump is very subjective.
The reason I wrote that comment is that I'm pissed how some people are treated, how some people are changing the game without knowledge of others, how you treat unknown or less known and that's pretty much it. And yea, evo is a nice guy, but his influence is imo waaaaaaay to big,afterall hes just a manager. Theres one more thing thats really stupid is evo speccing in matches. CB and all other sites(AEF aswell) should have stated that specs are allowed from now on. Because you cant even imagine what kind of an advantage is if 1 guy specs.
And last thing about that thing I quoted from you. I didnt ask you if you gonna be admin or not, whats the point to stress out such statement eventhough nobody asked you if u want to admin or not(about ur sponsorship). Not to mention what kind of things you wanted. Such statements can only make you look arrogant or people simply ignoring you.
And I also often don't care about what "the community" have to say because they always flame the fuck out of me when they have no leg to stand on whatsoever. That stuff gets old, and if you want to be an admin, you need to have a thick skin. You just need to be able to ignore those comments. Is that being a dictator? Try being an admin, you'll see for yourself.
5on5 has proven its benefits. It also has disadvantages, it kills a part of the fun in the game, but the advantages are more important.
We require financial growth while the population suffers.
Also would be funny to find out what do you mean by "got accepted ;)", accepted by who? Tosspot? You? Community?
My point proven.
i understand of course that the spam of a level 2/3 fops was getting ridicoulus.
but now that fops is quite useless one might consider giving him back level 1?
i liked it most when there were the restricted levelups with higher XP values.
the first form of XP restriction introduced.
some levelups are shit but others appear to be good in 5on5 again. + the maps changed to a certain degree.
lvl 1 engineer = 8 nades = 40 seconds, you could spam a wall of nades at main or east for a full 30 seconds. lvl 2 engis could defuse / fuse in 1,5 seconds.
lvl 1 fops = insane ammo output, giving 60 ammo + 2 nades to medics with one pack and you get about 6 packs every 30 seconds instead of 4 packs. lvl 2 and 3 fops was imba
lvl 1 medic = was kinda balanced, just gave you one or two more medpacks every 30 seconds. ok compared to all the other xp upgrades
lvl 1 light weapons = not sure anymore what this does, lvl 2 reduces recoil on luger, lvl 3 gives you reduced spread
lvl 1 pf = can shoot every 20 seconds instead of every 30 seconds. back then you still had axis playing a panzerfaust on their team :p worked really nice on bigger maps like oasis and old goldrush.
etc etc. removing xp ended the excessive spam based defense that had develloped on grush / oasis and many other maps. Kreaturen for example were known for just locking down oasis second part. Once xp got removed, it was impossible to keep this up as you needed a shitload of spam to keep it up.
ooooooooOOOh controversial
I think for decisions like the sd2 main jump or any gameplay changes you need people who actually play the game active & for a long time. Or people who are speccing alot (and i mean really alot.. i dont know how active eVo is but wasnt he in the past speccing all his teams pracc´s and offis? he maybe has even more ideas and creativity about the teamplay as the players themself). But then again they need to be active.. doesnt matter if they were superheroes in the past. The game (tactics,tricks,blabla) are changing.
Snake and Krosan are awesome admins and e.g. snake plays ET longer than 95% on crossfire and is already an ESL admin for ages (if its the same snake i played with in fenneks :P) but he isn´t / hasn´t really been on a high level aswell as i dont think he plays ET at all anymore? So I dont think he is capable of such gameplay decisions.
All in all admins like killerboy,snake & krosan should do a vote where skilled people will be allowed to vote. Skilled.. i guess Top5 EC-Winning teams, or take the Top3 and let them decide to give another 10 people of their choice the right to vote.
like low-skilled players should have a right for decisions too? I thought about that when writing my comment but i think: no they shouldnt
for example the sd2 main jump (i dont care if its in or not but: lets say removing it is a good idea), a low skilled player wont be able to do the jump. He wont care about it. He will say "yes leave the jump" cause for him its senseless to remove it.
Other example: lets say there is a map where defending on a high skilled level is too easy and nearly impossible to break the defence. A low skilled team will jump in with panzer, throw an airstrike and the defence is broken cause the low-skilled-defending-team will have no idea about what to do.. they maybe won´t even realize that there is an airstrike (e.g. on sd2 back defense when allies throw an airstrike outside of the east/west.. so that the wall would hide it but still hits inside where the defending team is). So a low skilled team wont have problems with that attacking part but a two highskilled teams will do. A highskilled team wont stand randomly around letting some random panzer rape them. They will notice every airstrike. They know how to defend even if 2 or 3 of them are dead.
I cant think of any decision which could be made in favour of a highskilled team and at the same time would hurt low skilled teams.
the 2nd part seems really right for me (Y) :D
but still, letting 12(11) players(?), 2 who already retired, 4 who are only managers/admins who don't play at all or olny a little, is ridiculous in my eyes.
Same goes for their people in the commitee :P I think the last time i played in a real clan Ross was sucking hard and now he plays in one of the top teams :) no idea who is active or not and who is at which skill level. I guess someone who plays for a very long time on a high level would be the best for this job.. but giving a "newschooler" a chance isnt bad too?
Meaning, either lowskiller and highskiller might be able to do the jump. And the other way around, too.
A rambo medic with low aim who does the sd2-main jump and dies and therefor lets 1 engi and 1 fops alone is comepletly senseless,useless and wont give the allies a big advantage.
Why not starting such a thing and trying to improve ET ? Removing that jump was (according to most people on crossfire) a bad decision.. in the end u guys got your jump back? so where is the problem? :)
Imagine people never made the decisions to improve ET. Still unlimited panzers allowed,30 mines, blabla
lol @ this community
Pro players ( 1 representative per regular EC playoff team or so) make suggestions, it's discussed (maybe on some kind of private forum - to avoid the lack of discussion due to missing eachother on IRC channel). When a certain % is reached that most agree (60-70%) the idea is given to the CB/ESL/CF admins, they check if there's no big flaw/break with their rules.
if admins agree, the idea passes and it's presented to the rest of the community who can all flame it.
and about the supply jump; don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. It's legit - ye most players know how to use it nowadays, but I guess defenses will just have to adjust to it even though its very hard to defend.
interesting
With ET it's all about adjusting on defense. Sure your team has a general strat but the rest comes down to positioning and game sense imo
disallowing the supply jump is stupid, in all honesty the arguments made by the committee should of been placed in a poll where people could have voted "yes" or "no" because when you get down to it, it's the community who play's the game, the community who attends the lans, the community who create new team and reform old teams and the community who keeps the game alive for the most part
How can people complain about the "standard" when clearly, other people/options were considered?
I don't understand what's ridiculous about it? My understand is that Krosan wanted some input for AEF, a lan which he is heavily involved in. If those decisions move across into other competitions that's clearly the fault of those influenced.
Anyway, I'm bemoaning the hypocrisy of those mocking the people on the committee when they refused to be on it.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If I think world should be changed and the current system is not the way to change it, am I hypocrite for not running to be a politician?
That's all I am pointing out.
Well, they can actually do what the fuck they like. :)
figures..
person with most votes gets the Nobel peace prize
Good Luck Krosan
And simply the fact that you do not know why people even accuse you of killing ET, speaks for itself.
*EDIT* Point and case why I havent reared my head into this debate is right here, I need only poke my head out to have someone who regularly attended my LANs give credence to the argument that I have somehow killed the game. Looks very 'dead' from those great AEF signups.
LOOK KROSAN IS KILLING PUPPIES
whats even more laughable is your usage of the smoke card as you run out of any valid things to say.
When someone does so, instead of trying to be constructive, you go all defensive and even go as low as trying to insult anyone approaching you.
I'm sure you come up with 'valid' reasonings for your actions, but hopefully some day you'll see them as what they are, excuses.
Its not that Krosan will kill this game, its just the fact that he is using the summercup to test out these changes! He can do what he wants with his lan (hope it will be successful) but he shouldnt have touched any other tournaments.
By the way, nellie also mentioned it:
Sounds for me like it should only be for the AEF and well, if they like to test something before, they should set up a own cup for it.
So, to state my point: Krosan once stated, that the AEF will save ET/without AEF ET would be dead and thats an amount of bullshit i cant stand. No highskilled LAN or EC/NC will save ET, when all pubs (also NQ pubs etc) are gone. Thats a fact, like in every other game 90% of the players playing for fun, destroy their fun and you are gonna destroy the whole game with no chance left to save it via some LAN etc.
The idea itself is interesting i think.
people wanting to change the game when they cant adjust to some things at all, making the game easier or less annoying for them and not looking at the bigger picture
banning sd jump is prime example. i cant do it (1/10 succes maybe) but if i was on the panel i would strongly oppose of removing it even though it would only help me if its disallowed
dunno about jumping scripts though