Three years ago, I remember being on an ETTV server broadcasting NationsCup and I also remember what a viewer said :
Here we are, 3 years later, with a new format (5vs5) and new rules : (no MG42, nor mortars...). We don't play with PunkBuster anymore pretending PB makes ET laggy. SLAC seems to be a nice alternative but an Anticheat made by cheaters for non- cheaters looks like a joke. About main leagues and tournaments, CB and ESL are like two little boys who want to show people they have the best toy... I am obviously speaking about the last NationsCup drama and last “dignitas vs Fantastic5” coverage... or “copy/paste”. Indeed, we can't see any differences between ESL and CB formats. In fact, there are many informations in those news but it's absolutely not enjoyable to read since the format itself isn't attractive and "deja vu".
I'm not done with all those things and here is the last one. I have nothing against new ideas but I wonder what's the impact to warmup during 15seconds instead of waiting for 10 seconds. This describes the new ET committee. Nowadays, ET looks like a dictatorship where “highskillers” and “cup administrators” make their own rules which influence the whole ET community. In my opinion, each single rule, idea must be submitted not to “highskillers” playing ET only for official matchs (as they “never” practice...). Each player should be allowed to give his opinion about new rules and the easiest way is to vote. “Highskillers” represent a small part of the community so, why do they decide for us?
As you can see, they are doing wrong. We (ET community including top players) should make decisions and admins (CB & ESL) have to apply our rules.
ET is certainly not as spectacular as it used to be. Coverage is unsuccessful. Leagues and cup administrators make the rules for you without consulting you. Is this ET as you liked it?
ET is one of the oldest FPS and it deserves some new things but decisions can't be made by censoring petitions and polls (e.g. "back to 6vs6 e-petition" by a french guy). In my opinion, LANs are special and merit their own format and rules (as TosspoT did last CiC7) but online events regroup so many players with different opinions, ideas and rules. That's why there should be an “ET e- democracy”. I agree, it is difficult to make polls about each rule but the most important ones should be voted (as CB did about maps...) since I, and I guess "you" don't mind about a longer warmup time.
I would be thankful to you if you let me know what you think about that and even more if your team agrees to play one of the three show matches illustrating my mind.
My goal is to show you, decisions recently made by ET committee and globally by “dictators” are certainly discussable.
About show matches, I would need 4 teams to play 2 matches of 2 maps.
Maplist :
Oasis (old version)
Goldrush (old version)
Radar
Fueldump (old version)
Weapons :
ALL
Format :
6vs6
I have no doubt about how enjoyable ET will be for viewers. From those matches, we'll be able to make good decisions TOGETHER and each member from ET committee is obviously invited to give his vote... If we're not censored one more time. But we won't because 12 players can't stop the whole ET community.
I hope I haven't been rude and you enjoyed reading.
(Thanks to Vincent for the banner)
http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=106619
Oasis (old version)
Goldrush (old version)
Radar
Fueldump (old version)
Weapons :
ALL
Format :
6vs6
Member For: 2 years and 14 days
You get a free pass on this one.
edit:
I'll elaborate... ET WAS NOT spectator friendly or exciting on the maps I bolded, could even argue with oasis, but it was sort of better than old goldrush and fueldump. Seeing how you are so new to et, I guess you have no idea how good people could abuse mortar and mobile mg. How bullshit it was to lose goldrush tank by getting mortared on tank, at back arch and spawn exits, within 10 sec time. That's not spectator friendly, and certainly doesn't promote skilled defense and good tactics.
that's why it's called "Competition" & "competitive config" and not "public config"
And about weapons, they were abused so good, that the defense part of the game didn't matter anymore on maps like goldrush and supply cp stage and even last stage. Mortar was more used than an smg engi is these days on defense. I'll search for some demos of mine playing mortar in 2005 to show you how "exciting" it was.
Old goldrush? The new goldrush is the best thing that has ever happened to ET. I wish people could find a way to mod old bad maps as good as they did with goldrush. Turning boring, snoozefest camp map, into awesome, spectator and most importantly player liked map.
EXCITING ET
[/sarcasm]
Not taking a side here, but if you really want to make your point, get your facts in order :)
It might now be what you hoped to hear, but battery has been one of the best teamplay maps. I have won several cups back in the day where we won vs so so much better teams by just talking a lot and a good in-game leading. And playing and prolly watching those games were exciting due to the some stuff I pointed out.
Goes to Hollywood
Infect
collector
Blitz
oGr
Ganon
h20xygen
Get it now?
can't stand these kids that are all like "LOL I TROLLED YOU, I DIDN'T FAIL, I MADE JOKES! XD"
he called infect legendary because of the clan he played in sarcasticly.
sup with u making ur own theories?
You shall not challenge SoF again!
btw ur also cheater mr fake acc maybe ur h3 himself?
gonna be HILARIOUS
but it is sth in this article xd
they just won't work on them anymore?
I mean I wouldn't.
thanks
In what way is ET not that spectacular anymore? Were maps like Goldrush and weapons like MG42 making the game more spectacular than it is now? Coverage is unsuccesful? Because we have another organisation making prestigious cups and leagues with prizes next to ClanBase and they aren't friends?
Besides, the 'dictatorship' stuff is just bullshit. In which organisation are decisions made by the 'people'? Rules have changed and changes have been going on for a long time in ET and the game has changed/evolved several times over the past couple of years. As far as I am aware these changes were always made without general consensus within the community. Also, how would that be possible if every poll and journal is swarmed with dumbass comments and TROLOLOLOL pictures.
There's a bunch of people, both players and people around those players, that we've liked to spectate and follow over the years and who obviously love this game and are willing to put at least some effort into making this game better, more balanced and more fun to play (and there's Gifted :PP). I don't get what people are whining about.
Ofcourse not every change is gonna be greeted with cheering and I personally like 6on6 more than 5on5 but hey, this is not my website and I'm not active at ClanBase or ESL. I just like to play this game. And I like cheese.
News format is shit and we haven't more prestigious cups, this is the problem.
+/-50% wanted 6vs6 back in an e-petition deleted by CB. I must admit 95% of my comments and journals are retarded but I am able to be serious when it's needed.
No mortar, no mg42, 1coverops restriction, no more oasis, shorter maps, retarded decisions (warmup time). Those are reasons... let's play with 4medics and 1 engineer and let's forbid the rest...
You play this game so you have the opportunity to bring feedbacks and 6vs6 is one of them.
The new Goldrush is a bit better than the old one I think, but this is just personal. Fueldump, eventhough I love the map, didn't work in the past since it gave too much advantages to the defending team, shouldn't bring this map back neither. Oasis on the other hand was quite nice, although an axis-biased map, I always liked to play it.
nothing else u need to say.
The majority of people who play ET would have no idea of the implications of their decisions, proof enough that you would bring back mortar.
2 of the guys I used to work with flipped a coin outside the polling office.
Their vote counted for as much as mine did.
Nice.
The fact they have to 'look up', to the people that potentially put these through in the first place.
I don't know what exactly you expect.
Thanks.
The ET community voted to keep 10 landmines, XP and level 3 field ops. Nuff said.
ET committee voted :
- warmup from 10 to 15 secs (we don't mind)
- 1 Covi restriction (certainly got rolled so bad on delivery)
- no main jump on supply ( same reason)
wat.
what the fuck i am doing replying to you
*facepalm*
Rank 3 medics with full revive?
Rank 4 engineers with flak jackets?
None of this strikes you as not suitable for competitive play?
9 riflenades?
50% charge bar for airstrikes?
No thanks.
Also, the game is far too spammy like that. Once the top clans started following Idle.ee's example, spam was the name of the game.
There's a reason the game was changed.
Look, XP isn't coming back. And for good reason. That's it.
But it's just the way things are being done atm.
They just released the 3rd update regarding SCmapscripts, but you still have 5 riflenades .. how about testing before releasing them?
The new rules (with supply mainjump actived) are good, but the way they are being forwarded is just unprofesional.
The first sentence of the column is gay.
Haven't read it yet, probably won't, but I bet it's shit.
ET is alive.
enough said
let's make more community polls, maybe we can get delivery and tc_base for 5on5 again
Mortar back, thanks.
you couldnt have ever palyed a match with mortars, how can you be so keen on those things?
you simply want it cauz you dont know it yet.
most annoying thing ever if used in skilled hands
everything you just mentioned can be done by a mortar too plus with a mortar there is literally no notice AND it can hit you over the whole map (especially in the known defence positions)
Making idiot offers like "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" will make community polls not serious...
What happened?:
25.6%
(294 votes)
Although if your point is that nearly all change is opposed by the majority at the time but usually later accepted you'd ofc be correct.
Call the ET committee whatever you want, but as long as it stops clueless scrubs like you influencing anything, I'm fine with it.
ET community is NOT a state (country). Democracy is supposed to be better than dictatorship in states. Not necessarily in sports, "e-sports", companies, etc. A little bit more and you'll say that there should be a democracy within a family.
You can only argue, who is able to make ET better - the community or the elite. Frankly, I don't know. However, the argument of force (we are majority, they are few) is indeed the argument of dictatorship :).
I sincerly liked reading your comment but I don't understand something :
Then why?
YOU, the pro players, are the minority. There are no 35327 PRO players in ET, there are maybe about 2000, if even!
So yes, you guys complain it would be too much spam or whatever and just remove it. How saddening is this situation atm? Why in the world do we even THINK about changing maps, cause some ppls just think its not ok to trickjump :o
Its not only the hacker who destroyed ET as we once knew it, its also you, whoever is responsible for those changes, and ofc [NW]reyalp who killed ET.
So instead of changing every single bit, that ONE or TWO of those so called pro guys hate, tell them to get the fuck off and get used to it...
Its the community that keeps a game alive, not a few hundred so called PROs and their crappy and over the head forced gameplay decisions.
3 years ago I made a similar statement about moviemaking in ET, and how crap and bs it was, except UV obviously, and I was proven right. Maybe you guys should think about the bad decisions you have called in the past and not what else you could remove from a map to make it even more LINEAR...
EDIT: I wanted to reply to killerboy. :<<<
Am on the toilet using my phone so it's okay.
(I can sell you cheap toilet paper)
He talks a load of shit. It made me laugh.
when you say community i think you are talking about all people that are playing enemy territory? the only people who care about this commitee are the one who actually play in cb lan or esl. but maybe i just didnt understand you :-/
and I also agree with you francis.
and i must say that i never did.
but for that statement you earned my respect.
stopped reading right there, pretending ???????????????? pb DOES make et laggy and it's useless anyways
even before when PB was on all the time, I would experience the lag caused by it in one our of ten matches
and ppl like you are in The ET Committee ...
+yes i dont have it its all about your pc+connection+ofc shit what you have in your pc/config
+what you mean here ?
'lol cant compare the computers at lan with some computers players got at home'
are u stupid? ever heard of the saying criminals have to catch criminals?
did you realize the best hackers who work for the CIA and FBI, actually hacked their own systems before?
Vila stopped hacking after getting caught... oh wait.
It's like reading the bible, if u dont get tangled up in words u find meanings for the symbolism.
- i think it's just on movies.
you compared shit to movies and I told you what movies are.
(Eventhough I find the the idea of criminals being able to track other criminals interesting).
"I said that I think FBI recruits ex-cheaters only in movies, but not in reality."
I said that movies are mostly based upon reality.
"I said that movies are mostly based upon reality."
Shanks for sharing. I didn't know that. But, hold on, what this has to do with me saying that I think FBI recruits ex-criminals only in movies, but not in reality?
so, nvm.
Or where do you have such information from?
- original maps (oasis & fd are way more playable now when they are edited)
- no need for mortar, mg yes
origal maps: no exept radar
mortar: no
who the fuck do you think you are?
leave and take that shit with you.
why you? who the fuck do you think you are?
you are to newschool to ask for mortars to be implemented again.
pretty obvious isnt it ?
Not really. This actually is what it needs.
making et 6on6 again is prolly the dumbest thing i have ever heard
FYI ET was ALWAYS a dictatorship and will always be one. Community polls and that kind of shit have shown in the past, that they are an unbelievable waste of time.
It's always been like this.
I always liked battery though and I would really like to see railgun being played a bit, but I understand why they're not in the mappool
:LOS
PS.
Oasis was great until someone called parodia came along :P
for the situation we have right now with starting of the summer cup i have to say. i don't have anything against new maps but the admins should think and look into the past on which format the maps were played. i can't believe that they put te_escape and te_ufo into the 3on3 mappool and a map like cean(old map which was played in the 3on3 ladder on esl) are in the 5on5 mappool. it seems to me that the admin who decided this, never played in offis this maps ....
but i still hope that there will be some changes in the future which are decided throw the community no only throw the admins and a small part of players to which we are say they are "pros"....
This is exactly why the ET community should never be given the power to influence major decisions.
This whole thread is "intentional logical fallacies" anyway, I'm just waiting for the LOL I TROL U :D and the dick riders to come out of the woodwork and say omfg gr8 troll xD
watch your bust about kprx
EDIT: then you banned him of clanbase (returning while banned) because he didn't agree about the bans and he was right. guess you banned him becuz he had been mad to you on gamestv.org about a prototype.gaming ettv war :(
http://www.pbbans.com/mbi-viewban-7f9913ba-vb116620.html
pbbans never removed those 2 pbbans, so i could never remove his ban.
1st one was closed because of lack of deniying proofs.
3rd: was not yet appealed, because no need, 1 beeing appelled and remooved was enough said the pbban admin for beeing allowed to play again because they were the same sort of ban. (video driver hack due to overlay of mumble activated and ATI probs.)
+ i never understood why you banned him on etpro 2.6B for a 2.55 ban. weird, or wwould it beb ecause heh ad been mad to you on gtv for a prototype gaming ettv war? ;)
There will always be some people who are against something. You will never have all the same opinion so we have to chose a couple of people who deserve this place to make decisions. I dont know if my way of thinking is correct right now, but if you start talking about democracy and politics, then why dont you make an election ? Why dont you vote for the comitee. so they can be the voice of the community and Make the right decisions. I have no idea if it will work out to be honestly. BUT it would effect much more than the situation we had some weeks before. We had a dying community and just a few people (Tosspot, Krosan etc) who could effect something. (Tosspost Cf-lans and Krosan AEF). There arnt so many examples. This comitee is a step in the right direction !
To make my point clear:
Stop whining about the comitee or do it better. Make an election so noone can say: "Oh why is he in the comitee and not me..blabla". Also think about who should be in the comitee. devide it in more sections. One for the lans, the other for the Ligaadmins, etmappingsection etc etc...
On topic, I rather have a small bunch of top players & admins who know the pro's and cons and take a decision based on this then leave the decisions up to a bunch of low IQ retards and idiots in this community :) When voting for a map the same old maps (like supply) will always come back when you let the community decide. Sometimes you need change and refresh things up.
just no.
so ET does
Further, old fuel, old rush? Have you ever played those maps in 6v6? No I dont mean once like "hey guys you know what would be hilari-fucking-ous? playing fueldump 6v6!" in an ironic kinda way.
playing the old maps wont make ET more exciting, just longer (the mapchanges like sw_goldrush_te are made to change to map to a stopwatch format) - it seems you dont remember when maps were 30mins long, how much it takes to keep concentration etc makes for a longer, more boring game. i think there is no need to change the stopwatch format - it seems absoloutely fine to me.
However, the configs could be tweaked a bit - personally i think it would be nice to have a BiO style config, where you get XP levelups, but then they reset after each attack/defence. MG should be tested in 6on6, but mortar should be removed - it just ruined tactics, which wasnt much fun for any team (having a whole defence ruined after 1 shot = Delivery-style luck)
and just because PB doesnt lag for you, it doesnt mean it applys tpo everyone - personally i find PB an annoyance, but not unplayable. and who better than an ex-coder to make a anticheat? if anyone knows about the loopholes cheats exploit, its him.
sorry mate, but i disagree with most of it :(
on BiO it works that your upgrades get reset after each round (so in a stopwatch format you level up when you attack, then it is reset when you defend etc etc) but there are some limits - for example, as soldier it takes 140 soldier XP to get to level 1 (where panzers take half a bar to shoot) and i think the fops is limited too
Trust me we've had this debate - xp is bad :p
There you have a fixed map. Fuck, u5 curb stomped us on that map twice and I haven't played this game in competition in what's now 2 years but I'll fucking ring for some faggots just to play that map once, or at least spectate a whole damn match for once.
Besides that, you clearly have no idea what you are arguing about. As Clown said, you really don't know what it was like back in the days (fuck even I didn't have the chance to play in a 7v7 league with 2 soldiers :D) that you are so furiously trying to "bring back."
You're right Francis
I was around at the start, I ref'ed a match for the cup Shakes ran to see if ET could be played competitvely and it was plan-b -v- someone (not sure) and it was Fueldump with full XP. The match lasted 3 hours and finished a 0 - 0 draw (3 double full holds). It was clear XP had to go and after a few more examples of why it was duly dropped (once Bani had delivered a version of ETPro that allowed it to be done of course).
The XP "debate" was pretty spectacular even by today's standards, with the argument against being that ET - XP = RTCW, which of course was nonsense, however *most* people did not want XP dropped, and it was a small minority that did. That minority won the day and IMO we would not be having this discussion 7 years later if they hadn't because ET would now just be a distant memory.
The move to 5-v-5 was long overdue (why was ET ever played 6-v-6? because RTCW was? that was never a good enough reason), and LAN's are now viable like they've never been before.
I can't comment on maps, I stopped playing ET over 5 years ago now. So why do I comment? I'm one of those who "don't play but like watching matches cos it's spectacular", but in an objective based game once a tactic becomes popular and over used the game needs to move on, and that means new maps.
Francis, you weren't around "back in the day", what you're discussing now has all been talked about before, and the decisions made in the past, and how they were made, has ultimately been proven to be right.
The 'inactive' guys (they'll come back) such as urtier know more about this game / scene than near everyone on this page combined.
BTW as clown pointed out. Some maps are srsly no fun @ this setup..
And have you ever played at the time when all weapons were allowed? Cuz if you had you'd know it's rather pointless playing against any1 with a decent mortar...
tl;dr : don't follow the others because they won't change for you. Do it yourself.
As for the mobile, its near useless against good players.
K43 restriction: What is the reason for this?? I dont play competitively anymore but as long as ive played(since the game was out) k43's were never a problem.
6v6 way way better than 5v5, but its understandable that 5v5 is played for LAN reasons. Just be thankful that you never had to experience 7v7 LOL
As for the maps you want back in , old goldrush was awful and im glad its gone. Oasis was amazing but it is true that fullholds were way too common and the new oasis was ass soup.Battery/Rail were two of the most fun maps to play, and rail might even be a LOT more playable with the new rules you guys have. Shouldnt really have to say anything about fueldump , its fun to pub but not comp worthy.
My question is, is this committee trying to make a universal config, that would make the rules the same between the LANS , CB, and ESL??? Thats the only way that it will work at all. And they should also consider adding some newer players(med+/high skilled only obviously) instead of keeping players who no longer play the game. Theres no sense in letting someone who doesn't play the game make decisions for the rest of the people playing the game.
P.S: I dont know you baggiez but you seem like a giant douchebag, and all of your arguments consist of talking shit to people. I know youve been in good teams but do you have to be an asshole to anyone who disagrees with you? Though i'm sure you would never do that in real life because someone could actually do something to you for acting like a faggot irl.
Also members... people have to prove themselves & not act like newschoolwananbetalent to be taken seriously.
i remember a match in an early nc against norway, we had a thrilling decider on fueldump. best game ive ever seen in 4 years of et. afterwards there was a lot of support for fueldump, especially from tosspot, what a shame it wasnt played more in the following years
edit: http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?nid=128952&lid=1420
have you actually played this game at all?
People seem to forget that the cup admins and so on also play the game and are therefore part of the community, not some people pulling the strings. Moreover, talking about democracy in the internets is just stupid.
Because column writers don't have a clue how this game works.
But there are many points where I disagree. First of all PB really lags, a lot. Then those old guns made ET different, but mg and mortar were totally boringly overpowered and impossible to beat when used correctly.
Bringing back old maps is also a failure. They have been tried over and over again. What we need is some totally fresh and new maps.
But surely the democracy thing would be a change for better :)
Strangely enough the majority of people that complained about that were either unknown randoms or previously busted players.
Sure, PB had it's quircks but what I don't get is why only the above mentioned groups were suffering from bad lag problems when PB was enabled.
but i remember (i think it was tag) who made avi of deciding moment of adlernest where one of their players froze in middle of fight and later was discovered it was pb screenshot what caused it. Sure, afaik they changed pb screenshot method a bit but after that many ppl got paranoid(?) because of it and then many started to whine about it. Also thinking logically it must have been top players saying that also because would they really be that stupid to change it because some randoms think that?
and i remember this journal by perfo about PB: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=66818
Ever since there has not been one night or even one game (pracs, mixes and other non-ettv stuff) that wasn't ridden with cheaters, simply cuz the chances of them being caught now are , well... zero.
And for what? A couple few that had a lagspike on a deciding moment? There are many moments that you lag out (even without PB on) for a little bit. Could be anything (PC indexing your files, antivirus hogging your cpu, internet connection having a twitch etc) that caused it, but just because it was a pb-screenshot that took place on a deciding moment it was decided to get rid of PB completely? Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.
I'm no fan of PB or anything, but just getting rid of it before having a decent enough alternative is simply asking for trouble.
sorry but you've the most ridicilous arguments that i've read in all the columns
Everything you are stating you want is basically RTCW. It's why many RTCW players never moved over to ET and hated it. It's fundamentally a better game to play, a better game to watch, and was a completed game.
Just saying...
If you dont change settings or whatever , its like always the same , and it gets boring