One cannot ignore the past 2 weeks in which the masses have mobilised the voice their concern regarding the current state of their dearly beloved. Whilst this old dog cannot help but feel this has all happened before (and it will all happen again), it is hard to ignore that people are hankering for a change. The key question is what is that change? You might say, its simple just look at the titles of the columns and journals and you'll find what to change. I can assure you, its not that easy.
Change is good, change in gaming often brings progression and evolution. Gamers however always hate change at first and then they go quiet on the subject. When CS players suddenly had to migrate onto Steam there were riots on the streets, When RTCW players were faced with ET they repulsed. Be those two major changes, but I'm sure you can think of your own examples of minor changes.
To cut a long story short, changing 5on5 back to 6on6 will not solve all of the games problems. The game had problems when the change was made and the game will continue to have problems as the game progresses. What I've tried to challenge people who have spoken with me about the current debate is what can be done to solve the other problems? Only a fool would look back at the way 6on6 was with such rose tinted glasses and think that reverting will cure everything.
Nobody has an answer to that question, nobody has an answer to boosting interest - The games decline has been steady over years not over 1 decision. Nobody has an answer to boosting player numbers, bettering match diversity. If change is in the air then why settle for just one? Why not think long term.
Change very much is in the air, there is something brewing at Crossfire that for now I will keep most of the details private. It will lead to the announcement of a large online tournament for ET which will lead to the announcement of CC8 amongst other surges in pro-activity. Such are those changes that Crossfire may no longer have such stringent requirements on 5on5 for events, but that is a matter still to be decided upon.
Usually when faced with upcoming changes in the community I consult a number of leading lights who have proven themselves to be interested in more than just their own teams motives. When doing so over this weekend on the matter of 5on5 vs 6on6 the response has been unbelievably diverse. Some people are happy with the way things are, others want changes reaching beyond just team sizes and looking into how changes might create more oppourtunity for tactical diversity. Then there is the side of the argument that I more naturally side with which is that some people are arguing for changes sake, and 6 months down the line will want something contradictory to what has been done.
The summer can be an excellent time for change, you shouldn't read much into player numbers during the summer as it doesn't really represent activity during the 'playing months' however you could make fundamental changes, test them and then have an excellent winter season of new challenges.
What are those challenges? What can you highlight today as being something to change other than the game format? What would you do differently if had the benefit of hindsight?
Change is good, change in gaming often brings progression and evolution. Gamers however always hate change at first and then they go quiet on the subject. When CS players suddenly had to migrate onto Steam there were riots on the streets, When RTCW players were faced with ET they repulsed. Be those two major changes, but I'm sure you can think of your own examples of minor changes.
To cut a long story short, changing 5on5 back to 6on6 will not solve all of the games problems. The game had problems when the change was made and the game will continue to have problems as the game progresses. What I've tried to challenge people who have spoken with me about the current debate is what can be done to solve the other problems? Only a fool would look back at the way 6on6 was with such rose tinted glasses and think that reverting will cure everything.
Nobody has an answer to that question, nobody has an answer to boosting interest - The games decline has been steady over years not over 1 decision. Nobody has an answer to boosting player numbers, bettering match diversity. If change is in the air then why settle for just one? Why not think long term.
Change very much is in the air, there is something brewing at Crossfire that for now I will keep most of the details private. It will lead to the announcement of a large online tournament for ET which will lead to the announcement of CC8 amongst other surges in pro-activity. Such are those changes that Crossfire may no longer have such stringent requirements on 5on5 for events, but that is a matter still to be decided upon.
Usually when faced with upcoming changes in the community I consult a number of leading lights who have proven themselves to be interested in more than just their own teams motives. When doing so over this weekend on the matter of 5on5 vs 6on6 the response has been unbelievably diverse. Some people are happy with the way things are, others want changes reaching beyond just team sizes and looking into how changes might create more oppourtunity for tactical diversity. Then there is the side of the argument that I more naturally side with which is that some people are arguing for changes sake, and 6 months down the line will want something contradictory to what has been done.
The summer can be an excellent time for change, you shouldn't read much into player numbers during the summer as it doesn't really represent activity during the 'playing months' however you could make fundamental changes, test them and then have an excellent winter season of new challenges.
What are those challenges? What can you highlight today as being something to change other than the game format? What would you do differently if had the benefit of hindsight?
+ Someone needs to revive #et.gather
but if i could dream about something it would be making admins/players less stupid and more mature. :P back in the days it was easier to choose who to play etc but today you can most likely expect the most random things happen in every game. just general nonsense and shit. not very motivational to start thinking playing those wars active. Active league with clear and strict rules (which include cutting that nonsense out, if you're a retard you get banned) would be something id wish to see. but i see you're working on it so i think we're quite ok. just pm me if you forget the amount of players in a team :)
Why don't you give the revolution a chance and see how it goes? Finally ET players got the chance do get one of the main differences to other games back! We would be able again to show off with the fun we have in the spammy fights full of action and try to get players from other games to check out ET and bring a lot of ex-ET players back!
What I think is that we need to do something to make it easier to get started ( and addicted :p ).. how? No idea, tutorial videos? ETpro installers? -- Currently uploading some maps to a server of mine, to serve as a redirect for all etpro servers. Releasing modified Global configs with the redirect fixed in soon.
One of the most important things which needs to get done, is making the game itself MORE MORE easier for newbies and starters!
There are so many things you need to do until you can experience a good running game...
This game NEEDS a complete revision. A smarter, more appealing look and an easy layout where you can modify ALL legal user settings.
Not like this (sorry) bullshit with selfwritten configs and the console.
It costs time to know how this complete game works and what you need to do, to get the settings you want.
This isn't that what a 'casual' gamer wants.
Id games gave already out the whole Enemy Territory source code. (We only need the ETPro source code from bani)
ET 2.0 you know? :)
No, I'm not saying that we need more ETPub players. But it's a fact that the bigger the player base the larger is the pro community.
Relevant
On a side note: What happened to ET:X-Real? http://www.moddb.com/mods/etxreal seems to be abandoned.
The game should be extended in many different ways, and ET-XReal is still alive, so lets wait for it. They are working on many interesting things and they are using the CLANG LLVM compiler which made me fall in love with the project :D
Sonamed " elite " up on the top made this game like CS or CoD. It isn't the same game anymore.
So yeah I support 6on6, it always was ment to play this format and thankfuly Im not alone on this 1 .
Ohh and a Side not, people ask freguently, why so few players, it is all your hustle with the tzac and slac and all of that sort crap.
install this, donwload this here installi this there, crack this up by changing your password now when slac is gone. Delet all your app % data, before installing TZAC etc.
There is the major problem I see, not in the fact that old habbits are coming back, yes at start ET can be hard, but the xp system and gaining ranks is the 1 thing what makes the game interesting for a starter.Let's Face it when all players at start hunted XP, being engi and building all the stuff etc.
Because people like him found it easier to host a 5v5 lan than a 6v6 lan.
The choice is up to you. Either you take the red bill or the blue bill!
but yeah, after the first major tournament it was changed to 6on6 (just in some australian leagues not)
Even after the change there has only been a couple LAN events per year and I would say that the LAN events consider only a small part of the scene, mostly from Western Europe as getting sponsors involved into ET isn't a very easy task and travelling expenses for example from Northern Europe to NL/BE are pretty high. Just recently PHX LAN had to be canceled as there wasn't nearly enough interest for it. I'm pretty sure CC8 will get a good amount of sign ups again, but what about the other events? I'm not too sure if ET scene in it's current state can make more than the couple LAN events a year happen.
I agree with you that the biggest problem for ET is getting new players involved, but it would require some really big moves to get the amount of active players rise up significantly. For example ET Live could've been that, getting ET onto Steam could be it or getting some big organizations/sponsors involved to secure attractive competitions with huge prizepools could be the needed move to get new players from another games interested. How ever we have to remember that ET is a really old game already and it isn't too easy to get into for the new players. What would we have to offer for Steam to get ET the necessary publicity or for the supposed bigger organizations/sponsors to put their money into ET?
As LAN events play a crucial role when it comes to interest of public and sponsors 5on5 might indeed be the better choice, but is it possible to make ET turn into one of the bigger games in eSports anymore? I would love to see it happening, but I don't realistically believe in it so I would just like to enjoy the remaining time ET has left with decent competition as much as possible.
I don't want to change back to 6on6 just for the sake of change, I want to do it because I think that it is the better format when it comes to gameplay and that is the most important part for me.
General Facts :
- Enemy Territory was made for 6v6, not 5v5. This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does show the original purpose behind this game.
- It seems that the majority of the community, or atleast the ones present here on Crossfire on a daily basis, prefer 6v6 above 5v5.
- Lans have been possible in a 6v6 format, even if they weren't as easily organised as the 5v5 ones, they have been possible.
Gameplay Opinions:
- The way Enemy Territory is played depends on the format, 6v6 brings a more dynamic gameplay to the table than 5v5 does.
- The tactics also depend on the format, 6v6 brings a wider variety of possible tactics.
- The pace of the game is also increased drastically in 6v6. By this I don't mean the times set on the various maps, but I mean the pace of the gameplay itself. In an average 6v6 game you will have a lot more action packed in the 10 minutes of playing time than during a 5v5 game.
- The "luck-factor" is diminished in 6v6, the better organised team has more chance to win than in a 5v5 game where a lucky doublekill or a random nade on full can cause entire defences/attacks to crumble down to dust.
- In a 6v6 game you have one player to "spare" to take on the role of that annoying sniper or that spawnkilling field ops, or even for the engineer that spends 2 minutes mining the backspawn. These random tactics are utterly useless in 5v5 ( most of the times ) since that one player is definitely needed elsewhere.
Community Opinions :
- I for one know that I will remain active when this game goes 6v6 because I personally prefer it, I also know that a lot of semi-active or even inactive players share those thoughts.
- The community seems to support the change, whereas changes have rarely been supported in the past. This temporarily boost of activity needs to be supported by the bigger organisations in ET such as Crossfire, ESL, and Clanbase, if it is to succeed.
Random Personal Opinions :
- 6v6 is simply more fun than 5v5, it's also more challenging.
- In 5v5 you see quite a lot of these lean/shoot type of players that have good aim but play with the intelligence of a toad. While this playingstyle is still possible in 6v6 it definitely loses a part of its viability.
Conclusion :
I simply think that 6v6 is what this game needs to prolong the life of ET a bit. You can argue for both formats but I think that 6v6 easily covers everything that 5v5 has to offer whereas 5v5 does not cover everything that 6v6 has to offer.
The fact that you can easily predict the opponents tactics in 5o5 makes it boring.
There is so much more diversity in 6on6.
I can tell you that 6on6 will surely have less teams than 5on5 had. From 120+ 5on5 teams that played in a seasonal league last winter, you will clearly have only 50-60 6on6 teams. I doubt that this is a win situation for the community.
Could you explain me why would changing the format from 5on5 to 6on6 decrease the amount of teams that drastically? As far as I know most of the ET scene prefers 6on6 over 5on5 (specially if we don't take the LAN factor into account) so I believe that there are more people that wouldn't participate because of the 5on5 format than there are those who wouldn't participate if it was 6on6. Naturally of course 6on6 requires one more player per team so it might cause a slight decrease, but it wouldn't be nearly as big as you described.
Obviously it all depends on the competitions available though. You don't have to be a genious to figure out that if there are a couple 6on6 competitions running up with none or next to none prizes and TosspoT announces big 5on5 online competition with proper prizes and a LAN event (CC8), most will choose 5on5.
Currently I would see that as a biggest problem, because most of the people would want to play 6on6, but they might be forced to keep on playing 5on5 if TosspoT decides to keep the competitions organized by him that way. Switching back and forth between different game formats isn't really healthy for the scene and we certainly can't afford splitting into two groups (5on5 and 6on6 teams).
That is a statement based upon nothing, if you had been paying attention to some earlier posts of me you would have learned that I do care about the "below medskillers", otherwise Twidi and me wouldn't be planning on multiple leagues in our projects so everyone can win something.
As for your other statements, utter bullshit.
Which redirects you to a page where u can find et downloads, infos about tzac, info about gamestv, config tutorials, cfgs with screenshots.
Basicly anything you would need to start playing ETpro as a newbie.
Maybe even some social tips about what you should write in a recruitment post?
Encourage to make interesting journals about i dont know what?
Maybe a server tree with servers rated, to easy orientate to a server close to your own skill.
Right now everything you need to play ET is so dispatched over the internet, splatterladder (server list) gtv for ettv and im always downloading swines etpack from there. various config tutorial sites etc.
Why dont mash together all these goodies to a guide which is easily spot able eveytime you open crossfire?
It's the smartest move this community can make for ET
Having advertisement space when you view the scores would be great. Or, even timed messages that appear on ETTV chat. The latter would be less welcomed than the former, but is still something that this game needs in order to further increase the chance of gaining funding for tournaments.
tho having an image says alot more
Possible changes could simply be a new map or two, reimplementing the mobile mg as it offers a tactical alternative, more lengthy tournaments instead of random one day / one week cups, simple-items, convincing jaymod admins to promote ETpro on their servers, an ultimate installer that combines everything needed for ET and TZAC.
really need something refreshing here, so sick of playing the same maps time and time again
there are a plethora of alternatives, but suggestions via community poll would be much more useful than my own
new (or re-introduced) gameplay element:
this, like you said about change in general, will really bug people at first but will allow for some novel tactics and general progression within et
suggestions could be radical or subtle but here are some random examples:
more/less (or even complete removal of) rifle grenades
changing spawntimes on certain maps from 20/30 to 15/25
adding/removing ammo clips or grenades from different classes
changing the medic in _some_ way - it's pretty clear that the medic is the dominant force in 5on5, so perhaps changing the autoheal/recharge rate could be interesting
i've not thought these through extensively, but i'm hoping they'll inspire ideas in others more than suggesting them myself
Yeah we want to play GOOD maps instead of SHIT maps, funny aint it?
or
New MOD with TZAC IMPLEMENTED IN IT
new players dont want to waste 2 hours registering, etc
just like jaymod when they try to join the serv it download all the bullshit by itself
As for weapons I'd add MG-42 back as it brings variety to tactics in both attacks and defences on multiple maps. Just use your imagination and you can find great use for it in many different situations. What comes to the whine about it being overpowered, I'd say that MG-42 is easy enough to kill with a rifle grenade / panzer, perhaps even too easy if you're too predictable with always using the same position. For example that famous MG-42 position used in bremen_b2 defence, that resulted in changes made to the map, wouldn't have been hard to take out with rifle from a couple spots with relatively easy shots.
Many people have also suggested bringing mortar back, but personally I'm not in favour with it as you can't really do much against it. You can place it on a safe place far from the enemy, right next to your spawn, and just keep on firing from there. Basically good mortar forces you out of your usual defensive positions or slows your attack down if you don't want to get killed by it. Mortar has large ammo resources and relatively fast recharge rate. So in order for mortar to be back it would need some changes. With limited ammo and/or slower recharge rate mortar would be forced into the position of a weapon only used in limited situations for a short period of time. This way it could be an additional tactical element without being too overpowered.
As for maps I would definately like to have some new fresh maps in play, but there just hasn't been any maps coming out that would've been good enough. I'm not sure if it has been tried out before on a larger scale, but perhaps if there'd be a project where map makers would work in co-operation with some of the top players with good ideas we could see a proper new map for competitive play.
Also from old maps I'd love to see battery and railgun back. Battery was an awesome map as it had a really difficult first stage to attack, which forced you to really play as a team and required an experienced team leader to make the right calls in order to beat skilled teams. I didn't really like the stopwatch version made out of it, but there's one change I would make to the original one: prevent axis from being able to plant mines on the back route or perhaps even disable mines totally from the map. Railgun on the other hand offered some really intense games back in the days with fighting going on back and forth. I always thought it was enjoyable to play and pretty balanced map aswell.
im really interested about your points on old maps and a new map that should be made in co-op with top players, im pretty sure you could get a playable map from it
These are the only things I can think of right now.
Dont care about the format, as long as lans are still supported!
A decent league/tournament to play needs to be introduced to replace Europcup.
New map(s) - the mapping contest has gone quiet!
Another Nationscup - brings a lot of viewers and talking points, especially from the UK.
Some sort of Manager application on crossfire where you pick 5/6 players for each event/tournament and the user with the team that has most points gets a prize - smth similar to Fantasy Premier League and they do it on HLTV for cs1.6. It could be done using GTV Statistics and each player has a value.
As long as there are logical things. (Like 'forcing new maps')
Wasn't it supposed to be 2 artilleries per minute per team until insufficient fire support (I'm pretty sure that was 'implemented' ages ago, like 2007 latest)? supply CP stage with good communication is just a ridiculous artillery barrage, I've seen up to 2 minutes of straight artillerying. While this will make fieldop less useful there might be a way to hack the airstrike to only take half a bar to throw (promoting alternative (aggressive) fop style).
Although it's a valid strategy I feel it's a little cheap. :D It promotes defensive play imo. ET needs more aggression!
look at rtcw, it has double the spam (2x more nades as engi and only half bar for arty)
But ET isn't RtCW is it?
Promoting creativity and variety is always good and should take advantage of it.
maybe allow only X arty per map/team dunnol0l
change mappool a bit, and force it, don't look at the top clans that are worried to lose because the fear of losing on those maps.
by changing the mappool i don't only mean new maps, but rather old ones that proven to be good enough: et_beach, et_ice, et_village, oasis, battery and some et maps that i have no knowledge of but prolly good enough for a cup
if it was possible in like 2005 why not now?
you just need the balls to do it
like e.g. pirates, played it 2 times on bio server and it seems to me as a great map, especially in a 6v6 format.
+
trying to get some new faces into the etpro / crossfire community, like from the jaymod servers.
maybe with including something like a "jaymod section" or "amateur section" here on crossfire where chosen players or volunteers are willing to help the new players, making forum posts with "how to install etpro" or "how to set up a config", answering questions and so on.
Just changing random things, wont make the game any better. We need the opinion of the community and we have to analyze it very closely. Why are we playing ET ? What makes it so special ? What is the most important element of ET ? And then we have to ask ourselves where our current position is. Last step would be bringing both aspects together.
I think tactical diversity has gone quite out the window mainly because 95% of teams never have bothered with tactics and copy the other 5% of teams - unfortunately those 5% are not as active or put as much time in as they once use to so the game has become quite one dimensional. I only really see the new WinFakt team breaking away from more traditional tactics successfully, and even then it is rarely done. I also dont think this to be indicative of 5on5, more the understanding, ability or effort of teams and players.
Classes
Medic
I think the medic stacking in ET is not good for a tactical approach, it makes it too easy. If a team (based on the 5on5 format) could only have 3 medics, there would be a reasonable balance between aim and spam. Generally most stages teams will have 3 medics + 2 engs or an eng / fop but there are some stages which become quite boring because of this not happening (goldrush bank stage, for instance) where both teams normally go with 4 medics.
Field Ops
Perhaps would be nicer if it works the same as in RtCW, but this would need some testing as well. In RtCW a full bar is required for Artillery but only half a bar for an actual air strike - although if you have a full bar or anything over half a bar it uses your entire bar for the airstrike.
Maps
I think the best way to introduce a map is to have one map (not multiple via a competition) and develop it slowly over say one season (3-6 months) and have it played in a summer competition (forced) with maybe some one day competitions along the way - the developer would be paid a small lump fee, maybe a couple of hundred euros and then there could be some sort of community contribution added as well. Also small changes to current maps are not a bad thing, some will remember I attempted a frostbite change which was met with mixed views.
Gamestyle
I think promoting a fast paced game style is the best way to go, as much as the ET scene hates to think about it, it is a competitive game that is a part of eSports (be it a very small part) and to remain a game and have any chance of attracting new players not just into ET but the competitive scene it has to change some things. Being attractive to watch, not just eye candy but in pace is also something that will attract streams and viewers which in turn will promote the game, more involvement from outside, etc, etc.
However, if you want to go for new maps, I would recommend making a fast one. Fast maps have always been awesome to watch, especially those in which everything can finish in a couple of seconds.
Can name 3: adlernest, bremen_b3 and the second stage of radar.
The frostbite changes are all based on opinion - some thought it was more open and gave the defence a chance to do something different then docs camp which is what the aim was (also, most people actually dislike or at least do not play Frostbite at all.)
this group would be small (like your tlr map competition panel, maybe those guys?)
i would mainly just listen to them about their ideas and how it should look like. putting me in a more just doing what ppl tell me to do position sort of way.
because i think the top teams and players really know what a map should have etc
pls answer me back asap with your thoughts!
+1 for forcing a new map
I imagine some games still running stuck on trying to break good crossfire as the Allied team while the Axis team is pretty much trying to maintain instead of trying to be dynamic and surprise the enemy team.
The current maps are getting boring due to them being perfected tactic wise, there's little metagame variety but that's pretty much it. We need new maps, but there are few major problems to it.
Generally players are very lazy to learn anything new. With maps that arent played so regularly there's always the problem of adaptation. It took a long time to perfect supply, even though it is one of the most straightforward maps of ET.
Being able to track the flow of the game requires you to know approximately how long does it take to go from A to B alongside what are the key camping spots etc.
If 4 opponents are gunned down while 2 are still missing, experienced players are able to predict movement of these lost soldiers by measuring the time they had and the possible routes they were likely to take while preventing themselves from getting ambushed by them later on. This all comes out of general experience towards the game, but the knowledge of the map itself plays a big role as to how accurate your predictions are.
The problem of an invidual reflects as a problem of the team. When someone in charge of guarding the east radar parts fails to report the movement of the enemy, it might not take long for west parts to disappear. Quite often I've been in a situation where someone asks "Is one missing, did an engi get through?" and the pondering upon the subject is halted when announcement is made about crane controls and whatnot being built.
While this may seem all pretty obvious, these are the most common reasons behind the hate towards maps that arent being overplayed. People think too highly of themselves in terms of their skill to take down a wandering opponent and are not ready to accept that the real skill comes from ability to adapt which includes being able to control maps which might give you a surprise or two if you're not careful.
Obviously there are bad maps also. Bad maps do not allow great deal of variety within the game, small corridors, bottle neck spam, luck factor, spawntime(luck) and spawnkill etc may provide huge deal of unnecessary frustration if the map wasn't designed properly.
I can't also help to notice how less often are fullholds occuring compared to good ol' days (oasis, battery, fueldump etc). Fullhold is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the map provides variety and the teams enjoy playing the "same" situations over and over again. It's not very glamorous to get held in spawn or some choke point because the map doesnt allow any room for variety. Radar offense is a great example of well designed variety.
Last but not least, the mix factor should also be mentioned. Players play as inviduals, not as a team. this encourages to play "easy" maps, rather than ones requiring teamplay, thus automatically reducing the variety of the game. Winning seems tad too important, rather than enjoying the map whether you win or lose, better luck next time I'd say, don't let the documents run away like that again ;)
Learn from mistakes and evolve, the game will too.
overall solution? one would be to figure out which of the maps are actually good competition wise and promote(force) them into the mappools. consensus about "new" maps needs to change, else we'll end up dying of boredom @ supply-goldrush combo.
just my 0.05c
ps. do something about pronedelay and Turnspread
yes!
simple as that.
As for the challenges for change ....Add mg42 and no prone-delay, keep mortar out. Bring back some old maps like oasis and battery. Not sure if possible, but for a LAN maybe add a larger prize?..could attract more players and teams. Change up the mappools a bit too, it seems like it's always a combination of supply/delivery. Take delivery out of a mappool and add something different(bremen maybe?). I guess it all depends on how many players will be active during the winter/fall/spring though :<
Shoutcasting hasn't been very active either which made everything so exciting :'(
Soz for this shit english but I hop you understand it.
Some people just aren't interested in playing 5on5, they don't believe 6on6 to be any kind of cure, merely a preference.
I'm one of those people.
Mortars only got powerfull due people training spots and their timing. The only reason to limit it, is the amount of the shots the weapon has(rof) and it's damage. How much damage it does to the other team? Since it's an shooter, focused more on infight (closerange sight, person vs person) it should not be made into a game where you can sit on one spot and kill the whole team with two missle launches. MG has always been powerfull if it has a place where it will suprise, and against group rushes. Still don't see any reason to ban it out of the game. Once you hide behind a wall and you can see the mg, you are the one who decides when to go around the corner and shoot at him. The time advantage you have is atleast enough for 3 easy pre-aimed headshots. The ones who whine about the MG are mostly people who get killed by it over and over again due their lack of focus and thoughts of possible possitions based on a logic or non logic way(:D).
In other games there is less variation. In the proffesional scene. Weapons are most likely not very variable. Classes do in most not even excist. It's playing on base of tactics and mapcontrol, something ET doesn't have. On the other side of the table we have players who play daily on a public server, just enjoying their time playing a computer game. Between these two scenes is ET. We like to play it but not hardcore. Pro's play to become the best dominating team/player. Pub regulairs play to have fun and enjoy their time. and between these two players are 1000 other different players on their chair at the table. So are there enough players to make it more like other games played by proffesional teams. 6on6 is more variation so it will take way longer to get to such level.
So ET moved forward untill some variation got removed. We had to start playing with a new ruleset and format. The past years ET is played with a lot of limited weapons(and timings of it).Is there simply nothing to look for? Is it an empty ship on the bottem of the sea. People and animals are and always will be trying to improve theirselfs into their environment. So if you change it, we will have to start over again.
A beartale
What 5on5 did for the people who sit somewhere in the middle of the table is like putting a bear into a cage and ask it to be happy and change into a teddybear. And now it's strange that it doesn't know how and he isn't enjoying it. Now you can let the bear walk around and let him find on it's own peacefull way to evolve over several years into a happy teddybear. Or you can leave the bear in the cage and wait till it dies.
We need just more players to play ET. But i've read from urtier and heard from some other people enough plans.... ETplayers should spent some time and effort into that.
so i at least suggest finding out what the majority wants, i'm not sure how because a simple poll will most likely be trolled by all the faggots around here, so i'd say ask around to the teams and people who actually matter in this game, compettive and active people i guess.
but the biggest point is tosspot, you've been one of the key figures in this game, and your work is greatly respected and so are you, but right now it just looks like you dont even wna consider the change back because of stubborness and the fact that LANs will be so much easier for you in the 5n5 format.
so atleast tosspot, find out what your community wants regarding the format, and you may have a point that 6on6 gets looked back at trough pink glasses, but still i think more people quit of the format change than that it attracted new ones.
"Such are those changes that Crossfire may no longer have such stringent requirements on 5on5 for events"
"To cut a long story short, changing 5on5 back to 6on6 will not solve all of the games problems."
pretty soon i suppose. but my opinion is just based so far on some journals and comments and not really on facts, so im willing to change it :D
" Nobody has an answer to that question, nobody has an answer to boosting interest - The games decline has been steady over years not over 1 decision. Nobody has an answer to boosting player numbers, bettering match diversity. If change is in the air then why settle for just one? Why not think long term. "
you're right when saying 6on6 will not have any influence on that besides maybe a few oldschoolers returning.
and you are right when saying that this column isn't about the format but abotu getting new players
i'd say its almost impossible to achieve what you, and most of us want tho, if you look at the big games right now ( LoL SC2 soon Dota2 ) what makes them grow is adverstisement from their developer (mainly riot seems to be pretty good at that) big sponsors, easy acceseble info (lots of youtube vids to get ppl in the game, big individuals promoting their game and getting people into it)
all what cf so far does for ET pretty much stays inside the cf community thus not much people outside of it catch this game or whats going on inside it.
i mean theres still some influentual people around who knows this game (DJWheat mentioned et nog long ago in his show) so those are a few things wich come to my mind looking at other games.
-update netcode
-update hitboxes
-disable turn spread
-introduce push delay
-rifle grenade takes more charge
-airstrike takes less charge
-artillery limited
-cvops k43 reload after each shot but headshot = kill
-update graphic engine + models + textures
-independency of packets and fps
-fix fps influence on spread and recoil
-keep 5on5 since no one really tried to play it (it wasnt needed due to the lack of competition). you get punished for mistakes. learn to play according to it.
-fix delay between initialising a shot and actually shooting (corner shooting)
-disable lean
-give shoutcaster and ettv viewers a better overlay:
--map overview with names
--health bar shown and which weapon is currently being used, how much charge they have, which class they are
--spawn times
--...
-give easy access to an up-to-date version of the game
-give easy access to stuff you (might) need in order to play (tzac, external server browser,...)
-make proper tutorials for the unique stuff in ET which makes it different from other fps:
--how much dmg you give with each weapon and how much dmg you need to deal to kill (e.g. its depending on the medic amount in a team,...)
--revive protection and how long it lasts
--how long spawn protection lasts
--how many ticks till a nade explodes
--how long does it take to go from A to B (e.g. ~10 sec from allies spawn goldrush to maingate)
--how long it takes till an airstrike or artillery activates
--how long it takes till you can use pf, airstrike, artillery,rifle,..... again
--how much charge you need to build barrier/cp/tank/truck
--how to proper move
--how to handle the guns (e.g. you shoot colt/luger faster with tapping than when you keep it pressed, you throw nade from the right and shoot pf from the right,...)
--proper tutorial for settings
--....
-maybe introduce a web app like QuakeLive to access server easily and keep track of ppl with a friendlist and give a platform like crossfire to limit everything to 1 account (e.g. smth like splatterladder just properly done and more features)
--just make it easier for ppl to be social. seems to be a trend and well liked by the majority
-community voice server
-one ruleset for all leagues
-introduce smth like a player change ban during a season to force stability
-introduce the possibility of playing in a better league in the next season (moving up) or qualifiers for some spots
-play with statistics of gamestv and make a global ranking (easier to idiolise players and another topic to talk about)
-upload demos of players
-do best of frags like hltv
-do that dreamteam thingy
-objective admins that stick to the rules but still with commonsense
-bring the teams to the community (interviews about current topics and whats going on,...)
not so important:
-some new proper maps (you know which maps work. just copy the principle...)
elaborating on pro 5on5:
Yes, 5on5 is more aim based but that is actually a good thing - it is a freaking shooter.
Yes, you get severely punished if one fucks up, but that is actually a good thing because it lets ppl shine even more if they can step up and even out a situation -> its more entertaining.
Yes, in 5on5 you have less spam due to one player being out of the picture but that is actually a good thing.
Yes, I don't mind limited spam but unpunished spam like landmines or mortar (if it would come back) or the possibility to make a way inpregnable for minutes due to fucked up limits just shows a broken game.
I never saw a team in ET actually playing with map control. This means standing aggressive, forcing a kill and gib or two and(!) then falling back(or selfkill) instead of over committing.
I never saw a team in ET actually having patterns and an in game leader which called them. Only ever some random tactic but almost no variety and if then it wasn't really pracced...
I never saw teams in ET actually using the 5on5 format in that way, did you?
you want to be more popular with organisations and sponsors. want to make it more entertaining for viewers: be more professional, play accordingly and make ET a competition oriented game.
http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=125798#comment2798829
A lot of people are asking for ingame changes, how would this be done? Are there active coders that are available for this.
I particularly like the idea of an ET 2.0 Installer with everything you need in it.
Source: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=interview&mode=item&id=244
Dunno though how substantial that statement is.
The problem with this, in my eyes, is the fact this just promotes camping and we end up with more 'lean-only' players, and don't try and tell me that's more skillful than inventive positioning.
Any form of shown animation with change of hitboxes would be retarded and seeing an opponent but not being able to shoot him isn't much better. just disable it.
5o5 POSITIVES
- Less team based(as individual you can do much more)
- Smg based and more paced games
- New tactical advantages
- As IGL easier to lead your team
- Completely different playing style in comparison with 6o6
5o5 NEGATIVES
- If you are good spammer you can destroy team rather easily(for example supplys CP att, rifle engi tunnel + fop arty to mainroad)
- More indivdual based( I think this is both pos and neg thing)
- FOP as class has lost its significance.
- You can just rush and being stupid
As general I like 5o5 cause it is fast paced and it is easier to control, but biggest negative thing is that fop has lost power.
6o6 POSITIVES
- team-based
- You have to think and not just rush everytime
- So many things what you can do in defence and variations
- You can be good with teamplay and even withouth very good aimers
- I am better in 6o6 style.
6o6 NEGATIVES
- You are always missing one player
- Lower tempo
- Less teams
- Harder to control team (see above missing player)
To summarise something I think there aren't real benefits for either mode.To be honest I don't really see why everone wants 6o6 back? It would'nt solve problems what this game has and I doubt that all guys who are saying they would come back if there 6o6 would stay long, maybe one season and there would be less teams and less players. And back in the day always teams were missing one player, which (at least my team) has changed in 5o5 mode.
My personal opinion is that I don't really mind whether we are playing 5o5 or 6o6 but at least deicde which one you want to play.
Probably more effective in 5on5 than 6on6, but meh.
There is only just one reason simple reason: ET current state.
Let's make things simple, I will rely on the current french ET community state. There are not much clans still active, one year ago a LAN with 16 french clans, happened, now it's impossible. The amount of french active clans in competition can be counted with the fingers of one hand.
The majority of the french ET players just play when they get bored, when the weather is bad, when they are hit by the unemployment or broke with their gf. hardly nobody is practicing hard in stable hours with their clan.
Prac hard go pro seems to be behind us.
To conclude, gathering 6 people for an official war will be really difficult, the amount of noshow will increase dramaticaly, except for like 20-30 clans.
Furthemore, it will decrease the number of clans, then you will get bored again playing against the same clans again and again...
I'm like you, I prefer 6o6, but be realistic, this is impossible to get it back in this current state. And I even think it will lead ET to a final death state.
Stop thinkingt just abou you and your high mates, think about the heavy consequences it will have on the game .
Biggest impact would be by those guys who would come back to ET and quit after one season, so there would be again less clans and less players than before.
Obviously, in regards to lan, 5o5 works much better as both a logistical and finance point of view. You're never going to get a balance as too many people want LANs, and too many people want online tournaments, so it's hard for the hierarchy to make a decision based on so many varying opinions.
The mortar-s purpose is to mobile all the time and advance with the same pace like infantry does, to always have artillery suport around.
You can't use it in every, yes good mortars will bring you down, but it also leaves 5 to attack only.
There are chocke points, where enemy can just cf you to moon, but that was the reason to have mortar in game.
Mortar is slow to deploy, takes time, not to mention to know correct coordn and have a very good communication between the team.
Waisted/ missed mortar round is / can be lethal, because the enemy may know you have mortar and change tactics, or can act torwards it.
The same goes for mg, a lot people didn't like how it was used in certain maps, but it is again a needed weapon.
Like twidi stated before, if you think Mortar MG are to OP, make it have less ammo, higher recharge time. A complect of mm81 mortar contasin in real life 12 splash Mines/rounds. In et you could easily add just 6 rounds and you are sorted, clearly not op enough to spamm spawn, and enough for destroying defense of an enemy
When they open a journal or topic they just get flamed or get sent to an outdated Ultimate ET installer that still is a shitload of work just to get the game running.
fuck 6o6 - bitches be everywhere , drives me insane :S
In short: ET is not attractive at all. ETPro should be easier accessible and there should be a list of public servers of all skills that can easily find someone a server fit for him/her. I remember I didn't like ET that much some years back simply because I would be joining 10 servers just to look at the download screen wondering what I was actually downloading. Most of ET's players can't even find ETPro and Crossfire simply because it is generally non-existent unless you get 'invited' by someone.
For example, the new maps.
How long are we playing delivery and supply?
Fuck sake, everyone is sick and tired of supply. When you play a war you know you'll play supply, gold or deli.
I remember when I started to play in clans, that we needed to prac the maps we didn't know. The opponent (for an offi) wanted to play ET_Beach, so we had to prac hard to even have a chance.
It really gives something more thrilling when you are going to play a war/offi.
Learning from other teams, watching them execute their own tax on a not that often played map.
Imo, we all say we want to play other maps, but when they come (erdenberg, coast, ...), we all back off. We play them for a week and then say 'nah, we dont want it, its bad'. But WHY is it bad? Make the map better, make the repertoire of the maps bigger.
A second problem, in my opinion, is that the engi only has to do (most) of the objectiveves. Make, destroy, build cp, build tank, repair tank, destroy barrier, destroy door controls, etc.. Why not make objectives that can be broken by a panzer or a certain airstrike that has to be thrown? I dunno, when I type it, it sounds silly. But it kinda irritates me that the engi has such a key position in every single war, and that classes like soldier and field ops are kinda 'forgotten'.
A third remark I'd like to make, is that you can easely bring the MG42 back. It's not only in favour of the defending team. When you take the mg, you cant move fast, you cant do anything more than shooting. No ammo giving, no mines, no dyna, no healing, no nothing. So it's also risky for the defending team + the chance that you get gibbed is much higher then when you are smg (cant jump away from nades, rnade, panzer..).
Bringing it back would be cool I think.
Sorry for my bad english, just trying to contribute.
Afaik you changed the format to 5v5 to support LAN expenses right?
Fair enough, however this year was supposed to 3-4 LAN's apparently, this may be good but you have to concern yourself with teams attending, teams I think will attend these LAN's are probably most likely sponsored teams with financial support.
Non sponsored teams won't have the finances to keep attending LAN's, which kind of contradicts the 5v5 change. But in order for more teams to attend, would it not be better for one big 6v6 LAN? Instead of these 3-4 LAN's which shows weak number of teams each time, leading to the latest LAN (PHX) to be cancelled.
Since the change from 5v5 to 6v6, matches have become more enjoyable to play and exciting to watch. More excitement to play and watch = presents a better, interesting game? Could lead to an interest from other games, more people etc. I mean the 6v6 change has encouraged people to host cups each day, viewer peaks hitting over the 100's in random cup matches, many people saying that 6v6 provides more excitement, which I think 5v5 is lacking.
Things to promote this game can be getting it into steam somehow, Big GET ENEMY TERRITORY NOW button at the top of this website or similar which has an ET pack for everything the user needs.
Something that can be included in that download could be tutorials, from installing the game, to exploring maps, talking about tactics, classes, etc, just making it simple for the new user, step by step. I wouldn't mind myself in going through maps and talking about what each team has to do and sending it to you or whomever creates the download button.
Taking a point Fumble said, that majority players in ET play jaymod/NQ etc, which are a lot. Thinking of a way to get in contact with these players could be beneficial, yet again I don't mind going on few servers playing and socializing + encouraging them to play competitively on etpro, maybe there should be an irc channel for this specific purpose? #et.jaymodpro or something?
R0SS's manager thought is also pretty interesting, however what about these random allstar matches we used to have? West vs East, Team Homer etc etc. A little idea I had could be an Allstar sort of match, which consists of an ec/nc player and they pick for example 3 players from ec, 1 from oc prem, 1 from 2nd div 1 from 3rd, which could motivate lower leagues or something. That is just off the top of my head, feel free to play around with that idea.
Also yourself Stuart, you must have alot of contacts which could aid in advertising possibly?
Will edit if I think of more things!
one of the most decent ideas ive heard in a while to add some variety to the game..
It would be sure fun to see 6v6 format coming back but I don't really think it could help competitive gaming to be revived, and to last aswell.
It would be much more intresting to create some new maps around this game. We're defintly not playing for graphics, but for ET's gameplay so how about showing it on new faces and not those common sd/grush maps.
The change has already been made and if you hosted a 5on5 online tournament, you would confuse the situation big time and who knows what will end up happening. The last few 6on6 cups have been a great success, with the return of quite a few familiar faces and teams, that's good for activity. Stop comparing ET to other games, not that many care as you do about the money/promotional side of it. People want to have fun playing ET (it's a frigging 8 year old game) and most of them have the most fun playing 6on6.
The community wants 6on6. The community makes the game what it is. Therefore, it IS simple..
How about the "Download ET" -button placed somewhere on frontpage like Urtier suggested 3,5 years ago?
Edit: just look at http://et.activegamer.net/et/maps/ and see how many great maps etpro community have missed!
EDiT: Just want to add that yea, 6on6 is much more fun to play and to watch and yes I do prefer 6on6 but my comment still stands ;D
I see positives/negatives with both formats, so I'm cool with reverting back to 6on6 if that's what people want. But I can't help but think people are just getting bored and desperate for some kind of change :D
Either that or people miss the field op class which admitedly got screwed over quite a bit in the 5on5 format. I say... improve the field op class which can be done by several ways already mentioned. Then add a couple of new maps and let's create ET sex together <3
As for the competitive part of things (not like ET is really competitive but still) It's not like we're the only ones going through with this shit right now. Pretty much every proper FPS I can think of is in dire straits. Fuck it, I blame games like SC2 and the DotA clones tbh (perhaps also modern warfare) :D
So while pubbing the other day on a Jaymod server, a thought came to my head. Why can't we just edit the original 6 maps into competition maps. Goldrush Radar, and Oasis have already been edited and are being played,(not sure if Radar was edited). Although Oasis is not very popular in the EU side, NA really plays Oasis a lot. As you can see in some of the TWL matches.
http://www.gamestv.org/event/27732-bricka-bricka-vs-replacements/statistics/
http://www.gamestv.org/event/27469-intermittentexplosivedisorder-vs-chilean-miners/
Battery on the other hand is still shit after being edited and tested. Maybe after receiving some more feedback from the community would make the map playable.
The two maps left are Fueldump and Railgun. Personally I love playing Fueldump in a pub. Maybe shrinking the map down a little would make it more enjoyable. Editing the map so the battles could be a bit closer and Allies wouldn't have such a back spawn would really make it playable for competition. Ask the community what they think should be done!
Railgun is a very unique map. Sitting in the train thing(XD) is something no other map can offer. This can be a really enjoyable factor in a 6v6 game. Sure it also needs a bit more editing but I'm sure it can be turned into a competition map.
To sum things up: TRY TURNING THE 2 ORIGINAL MAPS(FUELDUMP AND RAILGUN) INTO COMPETITION MAPS.
->download etpro here
->search wars here
->play etpro publics here (ips)
->watch etpro matches live here (gtv link)
->and ofc a link to tzactztac
gl