religion or no?
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16 May 2012, 20:34
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Journals
hey guys
so ive been wondering what are your thought about religion do you believe in it or is it just made up and pure bullshit to you?
me, as a muslim brought up in england/united states..i actually have doubts about my religion and belief in it in general, because it has restricted me from doing alot of things and just doesn't quite make sense to me.
share with me your thoughts please!!
so ive been wondering what are your thought about religion do you believe in it or is it just made up and pure bullshit to you?
me, as a muslim brought up in england/united states..i actually have doubts about my religion and belief in it in general, because it has restricted me from doing alot of things and just doesn't quite make sense to me.
share with me your thoughts please!!
living a true happiness life, is by knowing that this world is not the end, and not fearing anybody expect god. look at the otherside, what prevent you from stealing/killing if nobody would notice.
my english isn't that good + hard to explain as i'm not a imam :X
i dont want a book or people to teach me how to live a happy life you know? thats them or it trying to control me...i want to live a happy life by my own rules
thats pure bullshit :DD
I respect your opinion towards your religion, don;t get me wrong, but those points are just so wrong.
But yeh, Ive posted my opinion a bit below ;d
I understand your point of view but the way you explain it makes people think something completely wrong about Islam.
Dude, we live in the 21st century, there are many things to prevent pregnancies and diseases
Religion makes no sense to me but I have no problems talking about religions with people who actually believe in God.
The American Heritage Dictionary defines an "atheist" as "one who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods." An "agnostic" is "one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God" or "one who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism."
Agnostic understands there cannot be proof or disproof of such deity.
You cannot be both.
Agnostic atheists do not believe in god but don't claim knowledge about their existence or nonexistence.
Still, I'd claim atheist is the very definition of denying god.
Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
only in the most inclusive definition atheism is said to not deny god, but simply lack any belief upon the topic, which in essence is coming closer to definition of agnostic, which originally was simply ignorance towards the very topic the gnostics were blabbering about. So I'm still claiming you can't be atheist and agnostic at the same time, the words mean different things for a reason.
I *prefer* to use the term atheist (agnostic atheist to be precise) primarily because of the negative connotations it has in many places around the world and the best way to get rid off those is by confronting people that these connotations are silly.
But you might be in a war that you can't win, because at least majority of atheists I know, "know" there is no god. Basically only those who know so announce themselves as atheists. most people don't care / dont know / don't want to talk about it.
and hte 'The American Heritage Dictionary' has some weird definitions if what you posted is true but what do you expect from America, lol.
+
A man without a religion is like a fish without a bicycle.
If you believe in something, keep it for you and please, stop arguing about it, it just drives people crazy and violent..
e: and of course this is bullshit imo. Indoctrination..
people are fighting ever since because of religion
It is known that religion even dates back to prehistoric ages. Men worshipped nature gods back then
Oil is the old gold
It's the same as calling all Americans stupid because they had George Bush as president. Generalization, which always in it's essence is untrue.
We should focus on the justifications. And that's often either religion or nationalism, often both.
If you can justify wars to your people because of these things every single time again even if it is for selfish ends, then aren't those justification just half the problem?
If they couldn't justify going to war, do you think the people would let them?
My 2 cents :)
i do reject all forms or extremism tho
I have just never believed in a God. I didn't have to be told, it just never made sense to me. For me there is no God, or Super/Supranatural entities.
We're all stardust baby, enjoy it.
im at a point where i just dont want to be controled by my religion and live a happy succesful life without worrying about eating pork or drinking water with my left hand -.-
^this
ok
you sir understand the essence of religion (:
I'm strong enough to handle myself.
What you're propogating is Pascal's wager (which is more or less: we don't know if there is an afterlife, so I'm going to believe just in case)
But if your god is just and good, then does it matter whether you believe in him? Or does it matter whether you were a good person or not? If the first, then he isn't truly just or good and therefore not worthy of worship. If the latter, then it doesn't matter if you believe or not.
yep totaly worth it, i'm a muslim and i haven't limit my lifestyle not one bit, expect the known things"(no drink pork, sex before marrige) if we say there is no life after death, then there is no reason for me to be good. i could be a tyrant, and don't care about others.
god loves us ofc, this life is just a test, beliving in god ofc matters. for the people who belive in him and follow the rules, gonna win.
the good one goes to paradise and the evil ones goes to hell :D simple.
What kind of morality is that? If you're only good out fear for your next life then you're not really good in the first place.
Why not just be good for the sake of being good? Would that not even be praised higher since both intention and action are good?
Do you believe non believers go to hell by default?
and ofc being good for my- & everybodies sake,
Do you believe non believers go to hell by default?
well i can't asnwer that, god will decide, but imo yes, you got the right to decide within to life the way you want, on this earth, or you choose the afterlife.
Seems a bit harsh don't you think?
Wow...
however who comes last is the one* who to be followed, like islam is the lastest religion, jesus told us that there will another prophet after him, and therefor we should follow him, worshipping the same god, under differnt rules.
e: stones thor zues osv. is just people came up with, before god send prophets.
you are a fucking retard.
accepting that one day i am going to die and everything is over is the best thing that has ever happend to me. without kicking logic and reasoning in the face.
for example in Islam we acknowledge all the prophets: Mohammad, Jesus, Moses, Ibrahim ect.
this world we living in is created all by it self? like there is no end, and we people just keep living and dying.
yes my parents taught me about the religion, but since i came young to EU, i could have left my religion, but i like it, and belive it is the truth :)
prove me wrong and i will leave my religion :))
there is no proofs of that u just have faith on that.
Im not going to prove anything to u, but if u want to get out of your safe zone there is several scientifical research which tries to explain stuff and its certainly smarter and has more credibility since its a lot of work put behind than a bussiness such as religion.
scientifical research hasn't proved anything yet, Darwin & The Big Bang are just theories,
+
Darwin's theory was considered "wrong" because he could not show how the modifications occurred in individuals and how those modifications got passed to future generations, And there is still the "missing link" in the fossil record connecting man to the apes.
so where is the scientifical prove that earth, and the system was all created by it self.
and btw, what do you belive in?
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-recent-signs-evolution-is-real.php
for the record religious people shuld be the last one to ask for proofs because there is no evidence anywhere of their "magic" ways besides old tales... and thats not evidence while darwin did more research than u could actually read in your life.
I dont claim to have any truth i just say that what religions say is fucking ABSURD.
and i dont believe in anything, i dont belive we're here for a reason nor we have some kind of goal as humanity besides surviving.
Ull die and nothing will happend so make the best of your life now and dont stop yourself from doing shit u love because your religion doesnt let u because really u know deep down there that theres no such thing as heaven nor miracles, u are trusting the words of people who dont even know u nor care about u and the've been modifying their old traditions because they are simply wrong such as fuckign up women rights etc.
thank "god" theres atheist who made progress and u are enjoying it right now because if we wudda have kept with following some "holy" books we'd still be praying when some one gets cancer instead of curing it.
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/379/
The appearance of anti-christ which he will lead the Isreal(Zion), who is in power behind the scenes? and the plan for New world order, Freemasonry, their leader is the Anti christ
Thanks to the "atheist" becuase without them, the human mankind will still be dumbs, and without them there wouldn't have been any scientists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age ( look at the 15 Contents )
look the islamic golden age, it was the foundation for begning of scientists researches ect. and i wont deny EU took the books and has developed the mordern scientists we are in.
"I dont claim to have any truth i just say that what religions say is fucking ABSURD."
if that what you think, then it's ok, i respect your opninion. :) you have the right to choose to belive in or not.
like theres still people being murdered in the name of islam in arabia saudi. still one of those countries with a really religious background which wont last forever because ppl everyday has more resources to learn than before, thats why the number of believers are decreasing as the years pass.
I remember that famous quote: "Religion is nothing but a sect that succeeded."
in spain church has special privlegies, REALLY special ones.
religious people always tells me to "respect" them, fuck that. as a human i will repsect your human being and your person, im not going to fight a religious ppl because he is religious, but im going to criticise and laugh at his religion as much as i fucking please, its my right as a human being.
Religions been searching for respect since ancient times because THATS ALL THEY NEED. The word they want to spread is ridiculous thats why they need respect, respect is the most important thing someone can have. Imagine someone wants to sell horse piss as a cancer cure, its obviously an absurd idea and if people laughs at him he is not gonna sell any horse piss but on the other hand if he gets drug stores to respect him surely his product is going to be sold.
So criticise and laugh at religion DO IT FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANS INTELLECT AND FOR CRITICAL AND LOGICAL THINKING. We owe it to great man suchs as darwin carl sagan and thousands more.
i was educated under christianity, i respect the belief of others no matter what religion (even "mine")
...biatch
the word that church spreads is ridiculous and if they want to sell something ridiculous they need respect, thats why they dig for it and alwasy whine about respect.
fuck them, dont respect them, laugh at em and criticise them. You dont have to respect an idea, u have to respect the human being.
get your .pl facts straight
You only live once and you are living the life they want u to live and making choices for you. and all that for a "holy" book that your parent is fanatic of. i really pitty you.
If u wanna talk or whatever im up for it.
":D"
:D
I've been baptized and all that stuff, but I dont have the feeling that it changed me or something. Its cool that there are people who believe in a god and get faith out of it or something but its not for me.
Also, aint a shitload of wars based on religion?
It's made for coward people who can't handle that there is nothing after death. I would burn every fucking church to the ground and torture every priest for weeks for being homosexual and pedophile.
And don't make me start commenting about muslims and stuff! ****
if u were a dog u wouldn't think of such things.
sup darkuz matey. quite long.
anyways,
(not implying I don't think there's a god!)
Realize u are going to die one day and after that its all over. realizing that was the best shit that has ever happend to me.
an example is my parents expect me to marry a muslim girl probably pakistani but theres no way in hell thats gonna happen because ive been raised in England and USA all my life and cuz of that im just use to their culture...i cant even tell my parents if i had a girlfriend. ive only had 1 and actually fell in love and i wouldnt have had that experience with her if i was serious about my religion. and shes Portuguese and doesnt even believe in god! i couldnt imagine what my parents would think if i wanted to marry her.
you only live once, thats the only fact we know, you live once and no evidence has been shown of whats gna happend next and things point out that nothing is gna happend from the moment u die and thats what i think aswell.
http://visually.visually.netdna-cdn.com/WhatAreTheOdds_4ebb1b0343634_w600.png
These are the odds of you living so u better start fucking living however u wanna and how u feel like and do not let anybody tell u how to do things or whatever, it doesnt matter who the fuck he is, he can be named dad, mum, brother, friend, pope or whatever, they r just remote possiblities of living creatures just like you and they have no rights on making choices for you because life is REALLY something special and the only thing that is for sure yours, so enjoy it fully and every moment, the good and the bad cuz they are both awesome and dont stop yourself from doing so because of stupid mental limitations you set yourself with.
The odds of u living are literally almost 0 so u better respect yourself and fucking realize how important is it to be YOU.
YOU DONT NEED ANYTHING ELSE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZVQmJVXDkk
Religion is actually something that evolved alongside modern man as we started becoming more philosophical (due to our increased intelligence + socialization). And obviously it was beneficial at the time to believe that we had some universal reason to live. But then people started to exploit that security mechanism. And this went on and on till present day. Tadah organised religion.
I'm strongly opposed to organised religion as well as theocracies. They've historically only caused suffering and there's no reason to think that's ever going to change.
Religion in general is fine, but once it becomes this 'club' (read cult) things start going south real fast.
e: also Jim Jefferies
May God kill all you fags and curse you cripples to Hell.
see you
Wanna know what i believe ... Aliens it was all aliens unless I will be proven otherwise (with solid proof) you can shove it your religion in your ass.
On the other way, i believe most of the non religious people, have a bigger tendency of inteligency, people who believe in the MAKE TO ACHIEVE and not FAITH TO ACHIEVE, i believe in working for the luck, not luck fallen from sky...
Afterlife... i don't believe in such thing, we simply born, live and die, we are mere alive particles of mass connected with harmony with the universe...
About miracles and stuff like this, i'd convictly say that cience, more concretelly physics have explanation for everything.
... i have my own ethics and morals, i don't need guidances on how i should be or should do, even on the point to completely respect religions and its believers, in fact whole my family is religious.
Also it's important to refer that NOT believing in something doesn't specifically means NOT supporting.
DO YOU EVEN BELIEVE WHAT YOU JUST WROTE?
There are good sides, there are bad sides....
Do you want to know, what all this experiences did to me?
I don't want to hear a single word about this topic anymore. It's kinda useless to speak about it. All words were said.
I'm not smarter now. I think I just learned to understand the people which are believing in god.
If he's all powerful and all knowing, and created the universe, then he's created a world where innocents suffer, and he knowingly created it.
That's my major objection to the idea of God. Religions (particularly organized religions) just add another whole can of worms on top of that, as they're administered by humans, who are inherently fallible.
If you plan to follow a religion, read its texts yourself, and come to your own interpretation of them. Then go and read atheist authors in your culture — if your faith can't survive a challenge, it isn't really true faith.
Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—are unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the difference between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who is undecided about the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify the belief that deities either do or do not exist. Within agnosticism there are agnostic atheists (who do not believe any deity exists, but do not deny it as a possibility) and agnostic theists (who believe a deity exists but do not claim it as personal knowledge).
xoxo
i read this agnosticism stuff on a fbpage of a friend of mine and agreed on almost every part... dnno where he got it from
wouldn't it be at least reasonable to believe that you're existing and are not a simple conecpt? if you get hurt it hurts, which is undeniably a fact true? or is it to you also just part of a concept, a pretty realistic one, but nothing existant anyway? (or am i just misinterpreting? :x)
A wise man once said something in lines of "any person in flesh claiming to be god supreme is simply false god" So, whoever these guys were, aliens, timetravellers, other dimensional beings or simply humans, they created a religion out of their manipulative lies.
But what is god? as a word it's way too overfilled with meaning and thus becomes meaningless. In modern times god is a bunch of theories about existence. I especially like the one which says only this moment is real, everything else is illusion. Individualism is an illusion, everything sprung out of same godhead, the source of omnipotent awareness. Father, Son and the Holy Ghost = Source(Awareness), Man(Body,Matter), Mediator(Potential Energy, Sea of Thought) One must wander away from the source in order to gain limited consciousness so one can experience what's it like to exist, actually, one doesn't even need a reason. Everything just is, if you ask yourself why do you exist the more you think about it, the more perspectives you go through, the more answers you get. In the end it all just depends on the moment and your awareness.
So these are already 2 highly different concepts of "God", One is a person who wants us to do things his way and if we won't obey, he will punish us with eternal hell, While the other concept depicts "God" as the interconnected network of all there is, was and ever will be and puts you into the driver's seat of the most realistic game ever, existence.
The way I see God, he doesn't give a fuck if you're an atheist or catholic priest, everything is just constant flow of water where cause and effect take place and is only perceived by different levels of consciousness. When you see the excess suffering and know a way for a more harmonic way of life, you will see it as your "godly" duty to act, but since we have a free will we can choose to do whatever we want, even choose to be highly selfish and only live for ourselves. It's an experience among others and the awareness acts as a judge to our own actions.
It seems these different concepts of god were all mixed in together, probably by no accident, and made into a packages we now call religions. When people really try to figure out the existence or reality, they fall into the pre-built structures of thought, whether it's provided by mainstream scientific community, some major religion, the media, the culture and societal structure surrounding you or by all of them together. When this happens, the reasoning takes place in confines that were put place to control your mind and behaviour. They don't want you figuring out they are trying to manipulate you, they don't want you to find out youre being raped in the ass no matter which country you live in, they don't want you to understand reality, being aware and consciousness of the moment, they want you to go around circles in thought ending up nowhere so you'll give up and become passive cuz it's all just too fucking mindboggling. Turn on a TV and watch a movie, go on with your life, it's busy, you got lots of stuff do to so it's only natural you won't spend so much time thinking this stuff, nobody else seems to mind, it's probably no biggie. Though when you look at the world and the state it's in, it's obvious most people, the majority, which according to our democratic society is the one making the calls, has no idea what they are doing. This is clear when you follow the actions of any politicians in nearly any country. They are the people who have been elected to represent the nation. They are the nation. When everyone is fine with what they are doing, everything is going to keep rolling just the way it has been, except for the fact that it keeps getting exponentially worse every day. You can choose to follow this mass of people who seem to have lost their way and purpose or you can be a individual standing out for daring to act and speak differently, bravely ask the question "why?" whenever your consciousness is hungry for more information and understanding. The more you do this, the quicker you'll discover people actually do not have all the answers they so like to pretend they have.
It goes bit offtopic or probably has been going for quite some rows now, but this pic asks some very good Y's (for starters...)
thats in my religion, and ive did things that will apparently put me in the eternal hot box so its like no matter what i do im going to hell anyway lol. also in my religion i have to pray 7 times a day in order to be a muslim, and i havnt prayed in years.
(I haven't read the Quran so I don't know if it depicts God as all-knowing and all-powerful. If not, my point only applies to religions that do.)
Also, religions are justified because they are teaching good values and morals. Are they really? Aren't we just highly passive to any events occuring in our reality in terms of action? "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
What's happening is people do not know what's good or bad, none of it matters at least. Say if people could label things as good or bad they would probably feel like doing something about them. Things that are good are brought forward while things that are bad are eliminated, but this doesnt happen or if it does, the understanding of good or bad is really fucked up because so is our world.
Everything is controversial when people are filled with beliefs and people tend to take their beliefs very personally so instead of rationality we receive emotional response in debates over what should be done.
In the end it's not even about religion, but about beliefs and there are plenty with negative side effects.
you become your belief, if you're an atheist thinking man evolved from ape randomly and there's nothing special to our history, that's how it's gonna be. If you're christian and believe jesus was god's only son and everything is controlled by god, then that's how it's going to be. You make your beliefs real so just kinda better be sure they are positive beliefs. For example a person who believes we were carried here by strictly evolution also believes this is the highest state of mankind we have ever achieved. And when such person looks at the problems of the world, he concludes they are the cause of imperfection in the nature of man and because evolution is a process of billions of years, there's nothing you can do about it. The world is like this and you'll just have to get on with it. Christian belief is similar in a sense that man is imperfect. They also believe we suffer because we are sinners and the only salvation is the belief in jesus christ as your lord and savior. just believe someone will come and save you, but never imagine doing something yourself. Or imagine all this suffering and killing is just natural and the way it should be because we are animals and we can't change that.
There are highly damaging beliefs, they are set in place to limit your options as to what is possible and what is not. Probably the best way to prevent people from doing something is making them believe it's impossible.
i for myself think if there was a god i'd think of it as it being what ever you need, nothing physical of course. i'd not even say it exists all the time, but whenever you need it. (since it's likelier not real, but you want it to be, so it doesn't really matter if there is some sort of logic behind it, the concept exists to please yourself, that's all)
and yes, if there was one i'd also rather see it like you as it being someone who just empowered you to do something rather than doing it itself.
but if you'd think it being your duty to react on all the wrongs there are in the world i can tell you you're going to ruin your concept of the moment since suffering will be most of what you see and rarely joy and happyness you've caused by setting wrongs right. try to set wrongs right you actually CAN set right or at least better, but don't try to make the whole world a better place, just a tiny bit will do :)
reading your last paragraph makes your text sound a bit contradictive, you think people should just live their life but also care about other peoples life, but yet you think the life isn't what matters, but the awareness? wouldn't it be more reasonable then to bring awareness to others instead of helping them live their life just so they can get this awareness? if the awareness of what ever it might be, is what counts, then why bother about their lifes if they'll never find this?
liked your comment at the end of the journal more, not only because it was more what i'd chose to believe but also because its more conclusive ;)
- well yeah, but that's what jesus said. Origins of Christianity go way deeper and it's a religion, in other words a collection of beliefs, a package that has been passed on. I like Jesus, he's my kinda guy, but I dislike religion and so did he. There has always been true christians, those who follow the teachings of jesus even if they might've grabbed few dogmatic beliefs on the way. They spread love instead of hate, love instead of inaction and love instead of indifference. Anyway, my focus wasn't on the religion that it is today, but what it was when it was created. The god was very personal those days and still "quite" personal in the mainstream religions these days.
I only mentioned the whole thing to support the idea that no universal god would ever manifest itself to deliver a wish or command, that for a rational mind would be insane. At best he would send messengers, bringers of light. Light is needed where darkness prevails. I'm not surprised that all the "messengers" we've had were killed or ridiculed.
but if you'd think it being your duty to react on all the wrongs there are in the world i can tell you you're going to ruin your concept of the moment since suffering will be most of what you see and rarely joy and happyness you've caused by setting wrongs right. try to set wrongs right you actually CAN set right or at least better, but don't try to make the whole world a better place, just a tiny bit will do :)
reading your last paragraph makes your text sound a bit contradictive, you think people should just live their life but also care about other peoples life, but yet you think the life isn't what matters, but the awareness?
I don't really know how did u come up with this but I don't find myself contradicting. The moment is all there is and you can choose to live it the way you want. I personally find it selfish to just live my own life and care for my own well being when I see the suffering. It makes me happy to do something about it.
It gives me a purpose, I'm made this way. And remember, Physical is only one layer, changing the world is a multi-layered project. I can still live my life and do things that make me happy even while I think of improving myself and the world around me, for me it just happens to be that that I like to devote a lot of time for it because I believe in myself. I do see a lot of suffering and other things people do not want to hear about and it upsets me from time to time, but the deep moments of realization I've been constantly getting have motivated me to keep looking for understanding and solutions. Benefits of awareness outweigh the disadvantages.
wouldn't it be more reasonable then to bring awareness to others instead of helping them live their life just so they can get this awareness? if the awareness of what ever it might be, is what counts, then why bother about their lifes if they'll never find this?
Awareness/Understanding is something you cannot pass on. I can describe a tree, but you're the one imagining it. I can understand the structure of reality and use words to describe it, but it doesn't help your understanding much, at best all I'm giving you is words, references to things I'm aware or in understanding with. I can tell you how everything is relative, but to realize the meaning you have to understand it yourself. I could tell you how humankind is being manipulated into certain way of thought and action but you wouldn't probably even believe me, I could've even devoted all my life to understanding that and all it would require from you would be to deny the possibility.
For these reasons I'm not forcing people into my way of thought.
Alternatively I could show you the tree, Guide you on the key issues in understanding reality, I could show you examples of relativity and challenge your thoughts or I could show you proof of manipulation and lies. Even so, these things would still not lead to you gaining MY awareness or understanding, instead you'd have developed your own towards my thoughts.
So far I've found it most useful to connect with people alike so that we can share ideas and thoughts and improve our own understanding. Eventually when consensus is reached upon different projects or concepts, the execution will be so much easier when everyone understands what is being done and why and the little issues take no major hold of the projects or conversations.
people tend to turn to an all powerful being in times of real trouble or stressful times in their lives - when theyre dying, a relative is unwell, theyre favourite sports team is playing even.... you get what i mean im sure.
religion was born in a time where people didnt understand the world or the things in it. they never knew the world was round, they saw stars in the sky and couldnt understand what they were, they saw things that they could not explain, so they had to think up something to explain them all....thats just human nature.
religion, again, in my opinion, has been the root of the worlds problems now for a very long time. war - he doesnt believe what i believe, kill him. famine - caholisism fucked up entire countries with the no contraception thing - africa, the philippines etc etc. terrorism done in the "name of god" which blows my mind as no real god would ever condone this sort of shit. tv evangelism - omg just omg. white power protestants...the list goes on and none are good.
its hard for us to comprehend what we are as human beings, so we look to something tangeble to explain why we are here, what our purpose is and what to do next. im not saying there is no god, but ive not seen any evidence to prove it to me, and until i do, even lying dying, i wont be praying to anything.
It's rhetoric actually, you commented because you made an assumption based on what you know, but since you dont really know, the assumption itself doesnt carry much value.
atheists claim there is no evidence for God
so atheists, show me the evidence you have that god does not exist, because you have none. all you have is blind faith, the thing you accuse believers for. turns out it's the opposite
are you honestly suggesting that atheists believe that there is no god the same way that religious people believe there is?
no, like i said you gotta neglect so much to believe there's no god. it's the opposite what you're thinking, that i am ignoring the facts and so on, am i right? i know something about physics, biology and evolution + bigbang theories and everything fits to God and intelligent design, even bigbang fits creation and what's said in bible D: atheists are believers and either they are ignorant and lack the knowledge, or just ignorant
I can think of a million explanations how the universe was created, and all these millions reasons I can sculpt in such a way that YOU can't possibly say wether they are true or not. You'll come at a point where you'll say "Well, I can't prove it's wrong, so I must keep in mind that it could possibly right".
And that's where you go wrong. There are some things that just make so little sense that you can safely say they are not true, even though you can't prove it. If you're unable to do this you'll just keep on wasting your time on dogmas.
Please don't say atheïsts lack knowledge. They have the same amount of knowledge as everyone does who has the access to internet/books/common sense, they just know a bit better how to deal with this information.
It's just egoistic to claim you know better than religious people, by claiming so you already stacked all the believers in one pile as if belief itself is an act of ignorance. You say people just claim god created universe without proof. that's not true, that's how you see it. You're claiming god didn't create universe. Can't you spot the irony in that? Or you could claim you dont know what created the universe, but if it's so, why make such an issue out of it? Unless you find it important to tell others that they shouldnt know either, your belief is that it cannot be known and this should be truth. This kinda reminds me of some religious nutcases walking from door to door telling people they shouldn't be pagan because accepting the truth will earn you a place in some amazing place.
God is a manmade concept, one that has absolutely no foundation of any sort. Yes I'm claiming that god didn't create the universe, for it's a contradiction by itself. You say the universe is infinite, so there isn't a beginning point where he could have created it. Would there be one, then he himself had to be at some place some time when he created it, so he lived in his own world. Someone must have created that world, and yet again we end in an infinite loop of false reasoning. Also if a designer were behind this universe, it'd have to be a pretty fucked up being for all the suffering it causes (we eat other animals to live, how cruel is that, couldn't he think of some other way to survive?).
Now you could refer to the universe being implicitly infinite, this doesn't imply that a designer has anything to do with it, even moreso it proves that there is no designer, and that the universe just is.
As Einstein put it, “Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”
Dogma isn't tied to a religion it makes appearance on every field of knowledge and understanding.
Thinking dogma can only make harvest within religion is simply narrow minded ignorance.
And yeah, obviously God is man made concept, but so is every other word and symbol we use for communication. 'God' exists to describe an event or phenomenon, it's up to the user of the word to give meaning to the words he is using. Atheists tend to simplify that everyone who believes in something they have no understanding of are believing in same deity, a personal being caressing for the universe and the beings inhabiting it. That's again something narrow minded and may I say, dogmatic to the atheists.
If you decide to give your own definition to god then it's fine, but you can't discuss the fact that it's clearly defined what God stands for.
Your point about everything being a manmade concept, I agree on that although most of these concept we can confirm through trial and error. God is such an abstract concept that you can never fully confirm nor deny it's existence. Which yet again leads back to my argument of it being a dogma (which I never gave exclusive rights to religion, it's just a word which describes it perfectly). You can't base the foundation of your entire existence on it, in fact it makes so little sense that it's very probable that there isn't a god.
I do have to admit though that with your style of reasoning there is a small rotten spot left where god would fit in, be it a very little one that will soon be repaired with common sense.
Things in practice are different than in books. I've realized this deeply when I studied the structure of languages. I can write completely literal sentences from word to word and still people will use interpretation when none is needed. The reason for this is the lack of literal understanding of the words. Like you said, words are defined, but like I said people are not very aware of the definitions. Funny enough, this was also in the bible, "Let us go down there and confuse their language" - Story about tower of Babel.
Language is magic and the villains know this ;)
You do know that science doesn't explain certain key issues in bigbang and evolution, you can point them out now that you have the knowledge? I'm not an expert but I can still shut any evolution-scientist's mouth. In school they don't teach what's true and science isn't after truth either. Everybody knows that current evolution theory doesn't work but that's the best they got and believing in something as flawed as that is just dumb to me, not a good way to "deal with this information".
Evolution - process of complexity, "Novelty" is defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.
Evolution Theory - man evolved naturally from ape
Creationism - god created man directly
All together - Universe is infinite, time is only a measurement between 2 events such as Earth circling the sun or teenager reaching maturity. Evolution is the progress of life, the ever changing flow of energy with cause and effect. if you perceive creation without time, god created man directly, if you perceive creation with time, we have evolved gradually.
I guess the real mix up comes from the beings who came to earth claiming they were gods who created all of existence when in reality they only made us out of "clay" to do their bidding.
We were like all happy monkey family evolving here and shit when these guys come, mix a little dna here and there and make us suitable for their needs. Their stories still stick to these days and we have people claiming we've been around only 6000 years, while others claim billions and billions of years of evolution was needed. Maybe there's a little truth on both sides ;)
and if you're so sure, give me some of those "proofs" for religion. I want to bet that every point you're going to give me is based on something we don't know yet. I know it's hard to grasp that some things can better be left open than to have a simple answer for them given by some book (I wish it were all this easy), but it's just not like that.
Wake up, drop that god of yours, and enter the world of KNOWING things. I do not claim to know everything, I do claim to know what not to believe though. Your god is based nothing, the idea of a grand creator is based on nothing but implications. The personification of the creator is even more a sign of your lack in grasping the beautiful detail we see all around us.
Please, give me proof for your god and I might consider opening my mind to it again. Too bad I already know there is nothing you can say that will do this (and please don't come with the close-minded argument, that's so simple and you know damn well that's not the case).
http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=143215#comment3214657
no, God isn't based on nothing. What's your view then, how did everything start and how did life evolve?
It just doesn't make sense to give a god (or whatever dogma you make up) the credits for your entire existence.
As I see it you're too insecure to admit that there are things you do not know, so you use some unexplainable force to explain those questions for you. It's called mental laziness and fear for the unknown :)
There's plenty of things I don't have clue about, even considering these things but that's why I'm talking here, if I happen to learn something, I don't fear the unknown I'm interested in it :l Looks to me more like you're the one not willing to go deep in these questions but that's the way these conversations usually go, you guys turn ignore on
The time you're talking about is the time of disorder. Everything going from a perfectly organised to completely chaotic state, second law of thermodynamics. Theories imply though that this process can bounce forth and back (although I'm not so fond of unproven concepts), and other theories imply that "time" stood still before the big bang (which is also paradoxial because from out of nothing, nothing can source).
Life itself is one big paradox, and currently my brain is overheating from all these paradoxes so Imma take a while off ^^
I really do not have a single clue where one would get solid proof.
I'm not the one to say people can not believe in their religion, as I know lots of people - such as my grandmother - who get some of their lifestrenght out of it. But solely from my point of vue, I find there to be no reason to believe in any God whatsoever. And tbh, discussions about religions never really go anywhere, since both have fanatics whom are unable to properly discuss with eachother :(
For me a key reason to believe is knowing (= I've seen enough evidence) God is the creator, and that's what I'm trying to convince people, or atleast to shake up their blind faith to bigbang & evolution, make them think a bit! It's sad and true, you hardly ever get decent arguments and conversation out of it but gotta give it a shot 8[
Eye-witness accounts obviously mean nothing, since people can lie (make up things knowing they never happened) or hallucinate, mis-interpret their sensory intake (make up things without knowing they never happened). If we accepted those, we'd have to assume reptilian aliens, effective homeopathy, telekinesis, scientology and all other sorts of fiction to be true as well.
You could divide these into 2 categories, Natural and Artificial. There are no contradictions in nature. Nature is pure, as is. We can both observe it and while it baffles us, it functions within a certain frame of laws we can observe. Now these artificial constructs are a whole different case. Mind gave birth to them and they are filled with contradictions. concepts for example such as reasoning and learning. We have built a model for all of them, these terms are not self-evident, we have plenty of different ways to reason or learn, but majority is stuck with a very limited and narrow methods. We hold a list of things we have concluded to be either possible or impossible and when we process more information we compare it to what we know and label it according to our assumption. This way of thought just sounds like a bad computer program that would eventually mess up the computer if you leave it running for long enough.
Fundamentally there's a canvas and we all paint on it, some paint really amazing pictures while some just make a mess, but it's all true and it's all there on the canvas no matter how many layers of paint there are. You just have to see the difference between the canvas and the paint. Colors and shapes(words and symbols) are just references to describe the indescribable.
I can believe all this and it becomes my reality, I can even imagine myself to be a superman and hold it all real, but it might burst my bubble when my illusions do not carry over to other people, when they see me rollin but they be laughin. Difference is, believing to be a superhero with unnatural powers is easily disproved while these cultural engineers really know what they are doing and can create stories that cannot be disproved, are highly addictive and very dangerous to you, people around you and to the overall health and prosperity of humankind.
You're not unique, you don't sculpt your surroundings, you're not a superman, you just live your life the same way everyone does.
edit: And talking about your artificial world, where concepts of mind are made, that's called your fantasy. It's something that happens in your brain, which by itself is constructed by the laws of nature. All thought processes you may have, are simple chemical reactions in your brain.
You might want to check out the contradiction of free will, here stephen hawkin illustrates beautifully how your thoughts are just a set of chemical reactions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
e: hint; most of my comment was about separating Fact from Fiction, Reality from Illusion, Fantasy from Realm but the text is very heavy and should be read carefully.
Reality might actually be a substance that makes your beliefs true to some extent.
Personally I view existence as a multidimensional consciousness, but defining it to anyone is simply mindfucking and incredibly hard.
If you want to try to imagine it, think of it as a sea of energy, it's made of same energy, but the location and density within the sea define the experience of existence felt in the now. It's really hard to describe the laws in which this energy is confined because in a way it doesn't really have them. Time is an illusion, same for matter and individualism too. The highest level of consciousness could be called "God" but it's far from anything humans are able to comprehend and any definitions by nature are misleading. Every being exists within this "energy grid" and is connected to it. Since there is no time as we understand it, everything happens simultaneously, due to this we all have our own guardian angel or higher intuition depending on our cultural influences, that has already reached the higher states of being and is now looking after the earlier stages of development. Physical realms are product of limited consciousness where "individuals" experience the existence. From a blueprint to a self-aware being, from a being to self-aware consciousness, from consciousness to a blueprint for being. No beginning nor end. Constant experimentation with existence, no purpose, but plenty of spontaneous action. Infinite potential energy creating infinite possibilities of existence. It feels like I'm trying to define something that's 3D while I can only speak 2D, more precisely I'm talking of infinite dimensions while I'm only functioning in handful myself. to be honest, I don't even want to try to describe it anymore, the more I do it the more accurate image it presents, but the more accurate the image, the more it's a concept of words and thoughts and less of the real indescribable existence of all there is. Even the bible told not to worship idols (images, concepts). God is a man made concept.
One day I was talking to God and told him "I don't need you anymore" my first reaction was thinking this was against all I was raised to be. Some people say their affection/love for god is an exception, they say "If God is the God I think he is, he wouldn't like if I stopped caring about him."
Alright then, if you think you can't be happy without God, the "God" you're thinking has nothing to do with the real God. You are thinking of your dream state, your concept of God. Some day you'll have to let go of the "God" so you can find real God.
- Anthony de Mello, in the book 'Awakening'
To your question, I literally think everything is possible (and isn't because life is a paradox).
I acknowledge the existence of powerful beings and forces, vast(if not infinite) amount of dimensions and unimaginable understanding that awaits once the limitations of human mind disperse. Still the question about the order and hierarchy of the universe remains. Maybe put it this way, instead of a being, God is the certain kind of awareness inside you that keeps on growing during individual's spiritual evolution. The more you grow, the more divine your understanding becomes and automatically this will have an effect on your actions. To me, paradise(physical) people speak of is a place for these "divine beings" to co-exist in harmony because of the greater understanding they all share.
Kinda tired of writing more but reread my other comments also on this journal if you're interested, because they are partly describing this stuff too. Words are only references, but I hope I gave enough but not too much to allow you to think from different perspective.
I deeply respect the great effort you've put into trying to come to a right answer for the indeed paradoxial life, but you've gone too far with speculation. Guardian angels, infinite energy grids and supremely powerful beings don't have any scientific or observatory base and thus, like all the other concepts you can't disprove, have no base and are probably nowhere even near the truth.
Now I know you're not too fond of current scientific models like evolution, but you have to admit that causuality can't be denied, and thus evolution (natural selection) and the thermodynamic laws are also automatically at play. These concepts all have a decent base that can be observed around you, no need for any higher powers and such.
About the current paradoxial questions we have like the beginning of the universe (which in my, and obviously your, opinion doesn't even have to be there because time is a manmade concept), the perfect detail in which everything is portrayed, and tons of other questions: where did you get your ideas on this? How did they form and what reference can you give me (if you're willing to take the time ofc)
"Now I know you're not too fond of current scientific models like evolution, but you have to admit that causuality can't be denied, and thus evolution (natural selection) and the thermodynamic laws are also automatically at play. These concepts all have a decent base that can be observed around you, no need for any higher powers and such."
Evolution is real for it is simply change. You're right, I'm not too fond of the evolution theory which suggests we somewhat recently evolved from apes, because my understanding of human history leaves room for extraterrestrial intervention, ancient advanced civilizations, deeper scientific and spiritual understanding of the reality and many events which have been ignored by the scientific community. I agree with most of the main points of evolution theory though, but I leave space for the possibility that apes were genetically modified to fit the needs of "gods". we were trained to work and taught not to question. Adam and Eve story is about one of these beings feeling sorry for humans and explaining them difference between good and bad, when others arrived to the "paradise" they were pissed off because the humans had learned to think for themselves. legend goes the other gods banished this humanitarian god to live among humans, but that didnt stop him. He told humans about the real god, he described what "he" is like. Again the other gods didnt like this and they had him killed, but it wasn't enough because people were so amazed by the words and actions of the human-god that they rebelled. Since the gods were smart, they took advantage of humans faith and beliefs. They twisted and turned them so that humans would begin worshiping them as gods. because of his spontaneous actions, the human-god had given the other gods a perfect means to control humans. Belief systems came more advanced, more misleading and more truthful sounding so these beings were able to hide their presence for it wasn't required anymore. It's a funny story and that's all it probably is for you :)
Anyway, causality is a simplified concept, but yes, quite true. The laws of thermodynamics however, at least the first law is simply trickery of words.
First law of thermodynamics: Heat and work are forms of energy transfer. While energy is invariably conserved, the internal energy of a closed system changes as heat and work are transferred in or out of it. Equivalently, perpetual motion machines of the first kind are impossible.
it's talking of a closed system, even if you have a lead box filled with vacuum, it's still not closed from the universe. They use this law to dismiss any claims of alternative energy possibilities. It doesn't really make sense. When they invented a led that generates more than the energy put into it, they just went around the word trickery by explaining why it works despite the first law of thermodynamics. In other words, it IS possible to create a perpetual motion machine.
All in all, something for you to ponder. What if I'm right? What if I'm explaining concepts that will take years from the scientific community to acknowledge? What if science is mislead on purpose? What if it's just all a big cover up? What if the ruling elite could make the world a paradise, but only want to keep it for themselves? What if it doesn't matter what you believe? What if reality is simply reflection of your beliefs? What if you believe something negative and it takes a hold of your life? What if lots of crazy shit is going to happen soon because people are asking more and more questions? What if?
just a few terms from top of the head. I built my philosophy myself, I've borrowed plenty of course but in the end I've been the one thinking how the pieces fit to my understanding and when I allowed them to shape it, that has really lead me to places. a week from now I will probably be talking of something completely else because I go with the flow. I remember most what I read, not literally but most of the fundamental message, but most important is to think and imagine. This will train logic and in the end it's THE thing that you use to make decisions in life. If you read a book with golf ball sized consciousness, you're not getting the whole message, just what your consciousness can understand. Expanding consciousness and state of awareness affects all aspects of life. You are more alive and more in the moment when you experience more of it.
but yet you will expirience something. we gave names to it and found a pattern in it, but there is no way to tell if here isn't some place where these laws do not apply. (you can prove it at a certain time at a certain place under certain conditions, yet not all places at all times and all conditions, so there is still a chance it could be possible)
not that i don't believe in THSE concepts ^^
e: on your edit - just the same as above, it's only a chemical reaction if you belive that something such as chemistry exists. :P
those are manmade laws, just the same as the models we used to use in chemistry. it pleased us and seemed comclusive, but yet we found them to be flawed at some point, so we found new ones. well noone has proven the concept of time and space being flawed so far, not perfectly, but you could...maybe.
Don't confuse the power of the mind with the absolute truth. What you THINK you know might not be what is actually true (although if I understand you correct this is what you're saying and we can agree on this).
Relating this to religion, on first sight it might look like I confirm your point in that I have to leave everything open to religion, but the idea of a grand designer is a self-contradicting dogma (see one of my previous comments). This is why I completely banish the idea of a God, and rather tend to leave it open for science. Furthermore I see no need for a designer, why can't it all just be?
edit: just reread your first comment and I think we can agree on absolute truths and interpretation of these truths, please read the reply I sent to your previous comment.
edit: indeed, just like in your comment below
Ofcourse you can say that it's a mere observation limited by our conciousness and senses, but as we know this already we use this knowledge to also prove things that we can't sense at first sight (infrared for example).
See it like this, if you can't trust your senses you can't prove anything, because everything is a mere observation. You can't prove that everyone is bound to the same rules, but that would imply that you're living in your own dreamworld where you made everyone up, because they follow YOUR way of things instead of their own. Which is a very cold and dark place to be, but yes you can't deny it being possible. Like a god, or a giant baby who pooped out the universe, or a multiverse where everything is possible, or one of the million other explanations that make absolutely no sense but can't be disproven.
Even we are already capable of altering our genetic heritage, perform cloning and so forth. We already broke the physical barriers that were given to us since birth of universe, like people say, we shouldn't play god and that sprung out of the fact that we can. As we evolve we are expanding our reach of influence within the universe and who's to say this progress would stop at some point?
Well now, take a highly advanced civilization, say 100,000 years from our current phase of progress.
They are no longer playing god, it's been normal for them to live without diseases and genetic malfunctions and with their prolonged life comes great understanding and wisdom of reality. Now these people who probably by now use the universe as their systems source of energy and processing and they want to figure out what happened in the past and since they are really curious towards understanding, they have wide variety of different research projects. Among them virtual realities made to mimic known conditions of certain space and time. It is actually mathematically more likely that we live in a reproduced reality than in the "actual world".
I know you assume it's cold to live in in a world of an own. surely it's sometimes lonely, but you can't really compare them and that's just one the quirks of human mind always trying to compare things. The benefits far outweigh the disadvantages and everything is relative, if you don't like thinking then obviously living as much outside of your head as possible is something you'd preferably do (just examples). The world we are given is prechewed, pre-everything. It's easy. Live, eat, work, reproduce. I'm not here for that, but I don't blame them who find it fascinating. "If you can't trust your senses you can't prove anything" This is just the narrow view sprung out of scientific method, which is one of the biggest reasons I dislike mainstream science. It's only one point of view but most atheist and people alike take the scientific approach as a way of life. It's as crazy as blind faith when it comes to religions.
Philosophy is the key, Imagination is extremely important, but as everything, understanding is the sum of interconnectedness of systems. Like a puzzle, if you miss pieces, you miss the whole, but when you have pieces in place you begin to speculate on the whole, you might get it wrong but through trial and error you'll get inevitably closer. Surely Science does the same, but I believe strongly enough to consider it as a fact that science is mislead as a whole and I as an individual should not follow in it's footsteps. This doesn't mean I wouldn't take advantage of it, this simply means I'm not part of the herd.
Bottom line is, I believe beliefs are of extreme importance and one should be really careful what to believe in because it defines you and your actions. I try to avoid beliefs that drag me down and support ones that motivate me to keep going.
The fact that you state that some super evolved form of life probably contains us (and believe me I've also thought through this a vast number of times) is no answer by itself, because you get back in this vicious circle of reasoning. They at one point were also in this universe, so it had to be created by an even earlier supreme being, which some day were also contained by an earlier supreme being, and so on and so on.
The problem is that with current reasoning and scientific knowledge we still can't explain these mysteries, and so philosophy makes it's move by introducing these vague concepts that give a one-step solution, but still are never able to answer these concepts that are out of our understanding. This is why I think we need science to learn more and more about our universe. At one point we are bound to know the absolute truth, because then we indeed know everything and live as 'gods', or we will be kept from knowing the absolute truth by these supreme beings, which would immediately confirm their existance.
They? I've written so many comments that I dont know what I wrote to what comment, but I clearly stated any personal being claiming to be supreme god is a supreme lier. There is no need for universe within universe, even though we already have that. Since you were rather literal with definitions, forget I've ever even mentioned God. I'm only talking about the structure of reality.
Philosophy IS science, what you call science is basically study of matter. These beings you keep bringing to the conversation might actually be real and their intention indeed is to prevent man from becoming a god, but like I said, they are not gods, simply imitators.
Btw hi I'm spree I never thought I'd have a serious discussion with you ehehehe
If you ever going to a crossfire lan again lemme know, we'll catch up on the subject
Well hi spree, seems you've done some soul searchi.. err observations about reality. To be honest I don't really remember you, just some extremely random stuff you used to post but even that is very vague, something about rockstar dad etc.
ET... mmm.. I would love to play it still but I could say I've found somewhat more important things to do. But maybe I'll do a spontaneous visit @ some lan. But if it ever happens, you should prepare because I can talk much faster than what I can write and usually only stop talking when I realize my mouth is dry
Next to that I'd really love to study biology, philosophy, physics and philosophy (I know this aint something you do in a year, but I've got an entire lifetime in front of me), and get to the bottom of things myself. This because I agree with what you say, for all I know all these scientific 'facts' could be a giant conspiracy to keep us puny civilians from the truth (which I ofcourse don't really believe as the scientific database is open for everyone).
By the way, not that it's of any importance, but may I ask how old you are? I guess 11 is a bit optimistic :DD
Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.
Have fun sucking the tit of scientific dogma. :)
ps. you might not have a lifetime, U.S. Congress just passed a bill allowing them to go to war against Iran. If this doesn't sound touching, many experts believe war against Iran would escalate into a global economy crisis.
apart from that - think what you want - if it comforts you to believe that there is an eternal being, don't care about what they're telling you regarding this. noone can ever tell you what to believe. but the other way around, you should also just accept, that others might believe differently and you should let them make their own choice. (yes they shouldn't bother you with this aswell, but someone has to make a start)
not saying you couldn't have, just saying it's unlikely.
you know, i'm good with you believing what you believe, but i tend to believe there isn't. not in a way you'd be able to proof its existance. since just as i stated, it would be limited to time,space and a physical form of some extend. and i believe god is rather a conecpt to comfort. and you can not proof that an idea exists since it neither has a physical form, nor is it all present and not at all time, it's there when you want it to be there (as long as you're able to control your mind on your own)
but do tell me, what proof do you have that a god that YOU believe in, exists?
and by proofs i mean that there is no other explanation as unlikely as might be, that it had to be an eternal being? (i believe that's the kind of god you believe in?)
Then again must be hard finding proof of some fairytale.
Tens of thousands and you haven't even posted a single source.
i'd at least expect some sort of miracle (though that's not how god works anyway, just through people if any. and yet you could simply explain that in a scientific way. well darwinism is only as flawed as when it comes to define what strengh is, no? in todays world you can hardly say who is going to be the last to survive (well, in terms of defining what attributes made him survive, though intelligence is certainly a factor in it)
but yet again, i doubt one can prove there being a god since even if you saw it or talked to it you couldn't be 100% sure it being a god. if it could fly? well that's not so hard these days. if it had lightning? meh. if it killed people without touching them? really? or maybe reanimate them? has been there already. COULD have been a god, though there still is a chance that just being something else behind it, so it can't be considered a proof.
Even if there were millions of people over thousands of years to say that there is a god and write something down, they believe god did or how he looked like or what he said, even if whole humanity did this, it's no proof what so ever. it could be something accepted as a fact, such as gravity being existant and it would be somewhat unusual of you to believe something else, but yet again you could be the only one right about it.
I wouldn't go as far as to use the bible as some sort of prove, the bible is without a doubt flawed (likelier than that god created incest related fail births later on)
And no surprise there you still think I don't have any evidence although I listed you quite a lot of them already. Don't live in denial that much, just argue properly against me if you think you're right. Obviously eye-witnesses or people witnessing, even hundred of thousands of them doesn't count and yeah you can't take a DNA sample of god and notice oh hey it's the dna of god, god exists! But all those pieces of evidence added up makes it hard for you to rationally argue against.
or to say it in a way that might suit you more (honestly no offence meant) proof is something we can meassure. but if it's meassurable, how would differentiate between ordinary and something being god?
there's neither proof for it's existance nor of its non-existance. there probably will never be. since there is always some "before" and according to cause and effect there had to be something before it or not? but if so, and if god made it? where did god come from?! and so on.
the difference between science and your belief at this moment is just, that science is more conclusive to a point.
Yeah that's the thing I've thought about myself, there always had to be something which I is God, who is eternal and created everything. How else could it be? :F I think human mind isn't capable of understanding these things. The difference between science and my belief is that I have answers and science doesn't, I don't limit myself looking answers from naturalism. Science isn't about finding an honest truth, yet science has nearly monopoly as a descriptor of truth. Science has found significant evidence that universe is made by something intelligent and that genesis of life hasn't been possible leave alone macroevolution. As for conclusive, yeah, but not the way you think. The more they have researched the more they find proof _against_ evolution. And the thing is, you gotta know quite a bit of something about biology chemistry and physics to realise these things and to think on your own. Don't believe everything you read and hear.
Your limited human consciousness is trying to figure out existence saying how else could it be and on the next sentence you admit humans do not have the capacity to think about it. So how can a religious or a scientific person be closer to the truth when we humans don't even have an idea what truth is?
Also, why must there be a beginning? I think someone asked this before, but think it literally, why must there be a beginning?
Nobody will know _the truth_ until they die (that's atleast how I see it) so it's pointless to demand definitive proof because you can't provide it. I think the closest to the truth is the theory which has more facts supporting it, which is creation and God. So far, no scientist can openly declare even if he was on the side of creation because the official view of science is that evolution & bigbang works. And it'll remain so until they come up with a better theory or the nature of science changes. I think we have an idea what the truth can be but the trouble is you can't proof it to close-minded people, nor you can proof it in a scientifically valid way.
You're going too philosophical in this one with the beginning I don't like that, but I think science has proven that universe had a beginning. Confuses the hell out of me if I go too deep, so gonna quit this topic here. God has no beginning! D:
But for example, modern society doesn't encourage people to think, it shouldn't even have to because it should be natural, but after decades of what the society IS doing, it no longer is. Thinking is overrated and not cool. Besides it's fucking hard cuz nobody taught you how to do it. You can write and speak, but what's the point if you can't think? whats the point of making people into robots?
The act of thinking has been replaced with several programs that do use the same processor used for thinking, but due to nature of these programs, logic becomes flawed, twisted and simply illogical in essence.
No longer do we think to improve our logic but instead we use our (flawed) logic to do the thinking for us.
Bunch of tools have been developed to make this logic bypass easier. the results of these tools can be seen today.
Using this idea we can divide people into those who think and those who believe. When a thinker is provided with information he will automatically chew it, break it apart and put it back together in order to understand what it's made of using his imagination and logic. When a believer is provided with information he will check his previous knowledge about the issue, form an assumption and act upon the assumption.
A believer might believe in something he doesn't fully understand yet blindly defends his faith while a thinker might believe and defend his assumption about something, but in the face of rational truth will change his mind.
For example our Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen who's been talking about economic growth for quite some time. Those who believe him blindly defend the actions of our government because it's necessary and what not. Then there are those who have been thinking about it and have arrived to a completely opposite opinion about the necessity of these actions. Same for democracy or the whole societal system itself. Believers have been sold an icon, an image of what is democracy, what is money, what is society and they hold this icon very tightly. Thinkers question these icons and point out there's more to it than we are being told and believers laugh at them. I say money is more than just a tool of exchange, among other things it's a major obstacle to mankind's evolution. Yet no matter how much evidence I put forth to support my claim, a believer will stick with the icon stubbornly. Of course my claims could be wrong and believer could use logic and reason to persuade me, but that's the difference between believer and thinker. One tells you to believe, another tells you to think.
and yet u are unable to provide just one of those proofs.
I'm able to go very deep in scientifical proof that I have but I've noticed it's no use to argue with someone who isn't deep in that aswell.
I'd love to see your scientifically proof on the extsience of heaven btw.
and btw if u can prove evolution wrong i dont know what u are doing here you could go on show the world and be famous because nobody has made it so far.
You can't proof heaven scientifically, you will see when you die, or in your case you might not. Scientists working with evolution theory know it's very flawed and are working it but until a better scientific explanation comes up they won't declare it wrong. What will happen is science will change in way that science accepts intelligent design as a scientific explanation. There are flaws which are known but neglected. What could I do? Evolution hasn't proven working. It's not any exclusive information........
"You can be christian even if you don't know everything about everything, it doesn't need much."
EXACLY, thats the point of christianity and most religions, its just the "easy" way out.
You have no proof of anything and u keep claiming u have but u are unable to provied any because they are not proofs at all, its just subjective stuff, u believe in christianity, why u do so?u have proofs that the heaven exsists? or that everything was made in 7 days?
And tbh I don't think christianity is in any means easy way out, atleast I don't have any sort of blind faith and I'm struggeling a bit
I have proof that evolution, bigbang, abiogenesis and such doesn't explain what they're supposedt to. I have proof for that to draw a conclusion. Creation explains it and God explains plenty of other things too. There are no more than afterlife experience as an evidence of heaven or afterlife at all, it's called religion for a reason. Though, evolution needs way more faith than christianity does. You have no proof that the things you believe in work/exist at all, I have proof you don't.
Some arguments I had of evolution in case you're interested in what some of those scientific flaws are: http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=123037#comment2740908 and that convo I had with him, read it.
If Adam and Eve were the first humans and they had a child, with whom the children would get their children? We are cousins?
Adam and Eva had dozens of children and the children made more children with each other
HE IS REAL
The ones that assert the claim for existence should be the ones delivering the proof. There is no reason anyone should believe someone that claims something exists but fails to deliver any sort of evidence for it.
Imagine if I told you unicorns exist. Would you believe me? You would ask me for proof, for evidence. I would have none. Would you now believe me? Would it be fair for me to ask you to prove they don't exist? Would you be able to?
And that, that is why people do not believe in god.
In fact, anyone that could deliver actual evidence for the existence of god would instawin a noble prize. Same for anyone that could disprove evolution.
Funny how it hasn't been announced yet, you'd think they'd make a big thing out of it; it's pretty important after all.
Oh wait, none of those count as evidence to you! You lust scientifical evidence. Yet, evolution and genesis of life lacks scientifical evidence, as does bigbang. Why do you believe in those then?[/q] There's more scientifical evidence showing there's intelligent designer than that it was random. It is known and unarguable science doesn't have the answers to the two major question, how universe was born, how life began and evolved. Microevolution happens within species but nobody can explain how macroevolution could occur and generate new organisms and spieces. If you start to claim otherwise you're gonna make a fool out of you.
Now, what's the problem with this is that science is limited to search the answer from a specific area. The day science changes its nature, it'll be all over the news, that evolution is now officially wrecked. And it is that already, but only unofficially. Scientists have disproven evolution but it's only embarrasing for them and they don't have anything better so far, thus it's not in the news.
Holy fuck. There's more evidence for evolution than any other scientific theory.
I guess you also don't believe in gravity, intelligent falling is a lot more suitable.
You're a tool, I'm done with you, you just won't listen.
Do you realize that the principle of evolution is that the ones with a major chance of survivng are those who adapted better?
Do u have any fossils of a snake with vocal cords? because we do have fossils which prove physical evolution.
i have one talking snake in my closet wanna see?
you don't have the in-between fossiles
Though I'd add that most religious texts are based on ancient writings and the books that are base for these religious cults were made by smart individuals. Evil comes in when the text is translated into meaning.
I think there is afterlife, there is "godly hierarchy" but it's so much different from the one the priests and rabbis have been babbling about. Fear of their God makes you passive in life. Real Universal God would not tell you anything you should or shouldn't do since he is part of you, he is you. So there is or isn't an afterlife, but there is this moment, right here right now which you're supposed to enjoy the best you can. Obviously we are made great promises about the afterlife if we give up this moment, but this is really all there is. This will eventually become that and that will become this and time is just an illusion.
pretty much meets my concept of life tbh. well except the "godly hierarchy" and maybe the afterlife,not yet made up my mind which thought i'd enjoy more, if there was one or not - i know, tells a lot about me, doesn't it?! ;)
and the end of your text isn't just your belief, it's true, definitely the best 'illusion' there is, and the most practical one ^^
CASE CLOSED
Furthermore it keeps people 'dumb'. Maybe dumb is the wrong word here but it keeps people from the great world of knowledge and science through a deep fear of some supposely supreme being constantly watching and judging you (although this supreme being is a giant murdering asshole himself too).
I think it's up to our generation to make it fully disappear from the planet. Luckily with the internet, a great source of knowledge, religion dies a slow death anyways so I'm not too worried about that.
Believe whatever you want, but know that by being religious you are contributing to the filthy worldwide lie called religion and keeping it alive.
I do not believe anything, cause I am quite sure after this life we go same way as dogs, ants, worms or apes. dont see what makes us any different from them as individuals, besides we are able to 'think' and make up weird religions.
I do not have anything against religious people and in general think everyone should be able to live as they want to. but: I think its something that people should do and have for themselfs. as soon as religion is organised its gonna lead to all that bullshit we have seen for a few thousand years now. that counts for christians just as it does for muslims and jews.
whenever I hear someone start a sentence with "I do believe in jesus christ" I try to get away from that conversation cause after that usually a shitstorm of racist, narrow-minded, 100-ears-ago-everything-was-better talk begins. not saying all christians are like that, but I experienced this a lot, when suddenly their oh-so-important 10 commandments dont exist anymore, or only seem to count between christian people.
1) It was a good way of controlling an uneducated mass to be obedient, work as a community, a basic moral law (for those who believe this isn't intrinsic in Man), for men to control women due to their insecurities, for powerful men to subjugate lesser men
2) It was a way of explaining things beyond peoples knowledge, though without any evidence
3) A doctrine to make decisions for insecure people and guide them so that they don't have to be brave or decide what the right path is
people consider themselves as undetermined, educated beings with a free will. if this would be true, why are billions believing in some mystified trashtalk shit? it doesnt make sense.
also, some say religions are doing nice with their charity work... well if you cant dominate people with your thoughts, like mediaeval, you have to find another way to kepp some power and bind people onto ridiculous believes, its some sort of missionating especially in poor regions.
tho i wont neglect the real interest of some people to act completely unselfish with the aim to help as many people as they possibly can, which is very honorable, but as soon as this implies certain forms of missionating those 'helpless' people i would really like to slaughter such people. people can act unselfish and altruistic without any believes.
christianity ie. never gave a fuck about charity few hundred years ago. every religion which has the chance to rule will try to deny all contrary thoughts and ideas - this also includes sciences.
without secularization and the development of sciences, we would still live in the mediaval brace.
todays islam is still in the mediaeval age christianity was centuries ago. there is not the slightest difference between them, besides changed economic and technolocial deveopments. people are still getting murdered for denying the existence of allah... see for example the "riots" going on when someone is drawing some critical carricatures. religions always claim on the right of freedom of believe when it is about themselves, but they never grant it to anyone else - pathetic.
religions/religious institutions are bad, simply bad and utterly useless. they cant offer more solutions to the problems they cause. all religions are a perfect medium for fanatism, sure, not every believer is a fanatic or radical, but under the right circumstances, plus some propaganda a vast majority of them can be turned into one. with this said, we are heading to the religious wars and controversies we are all experiencing now, and generations before us experienced as well thousands of years ago already.
shit is repeating and repeating over and over again. people never learned and probably never will, that religious wars (as well as any other wars) are absolutely useless and unnecessary. the conflict potential between christian/occident vs jew/israel vs orient/islam is rising again to a direction no one will be able to predict where it will bring us. and the reason of all this? religious believes and some wrong political decisions amplifying the strains - especially the creation of the state isreal as it is today is a major, or even the key reason, for all the troubles we experiece today with religions (before all of you pro jewish guys start to rape my head off, i dont deny israels existence at all, it was the right decision to create an isrealic state, but the way it got established in such a meltinpot region was not very smart)
all in all you (sadly) cant 'missionate' billions of religious people to an open minded world view. it may now sound inconsistent, but i do not have a general hatred against religious people (=/= religious institutions!) in my opinion everybody is free to decide in whatever he/she wants to believe in or not, its a private decision on which no one has a right to intervene, so i respect it if people want to believe in some higher force - tho i cant understand it. but as soon as people/organizations/institutions try to convince others in public from their 'superior' believe my tolerance is very limited.
there are much much more ridiculous things in the bible, which frankly is just an outdated fairytale book (imo).
Do you really think if everyone followed the bible things would be betteR?
http://www.evilbible.com/
site is full with bible verses that show the bad side of the book
(my favorite:
4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.)
that's the proof I have, and there's no proof of greek gods, so no, I don't believe in fairytales
As for how life began, that's a different matter and although no definitive answer has been found, there are several hypotheses being tested out.
Abiogensis is the leading one currently, sometimes couple with the Meteorite hypotheses.
http://www.crossfire.nu/?x=journal&mode=item&id=123037#comment2741068
There's a few points about evolution atleast, all of which science has no clue about and as long as macroevolution doesn't work evolution doesn't really occur in a way you think it does. Abiogenesis, they've been working on it without results and the thing is, they can't even produce an environment that would match the imaginary environment billions of years ago. I can shut any scientists mouth about either of the subjects, evolution or abiogenesis, so they don't really have a clue. Leave alone if there's an expert arguing with them.
First of, there is no such thing as micro and macro evolution, there's only evolution. Besides that, even if you want to run with those terms, micro leads to macro. If you keep changing and changing and changing something, eventually it will be classified as something else entirely rather than an optimised or modified piece of the original one.
Secondly, the second law of thermodynamics only applies to an isolated system. (look it up honestly). Even so, it's not even relevant if it's isolated or not, since we have an external source of energy directly influencing our system (the Sun). Thanks to that energy, life was able to come into existence in the first place.
Thirdly, it's not because it hasn't worked so far, that the concept itself is flawed. And even if it is it doesn't matter since that's the great thing about science. It doesn't matter how many times you get it wrong, eventually you will get it right.
Fourthly, we can easily simulate the environment of back then, in fact it has been done about 60 years ago I believe with the intent of seeing what would happen. The anorganic materials in the atmosphere, formed organic materials (such as aminoacids) under those circumstances.
Fifthly, there are plenty of transitional fossiles found, despite the odds of something being fossilized being small in the first place and despite transitional species not being around long. http://www.bradyns-blog.com/2011/02/transitional-fossils.html
Sixthly, you misunderstood your friend concerning radiometric dating. You need different isotopes for different situations. You can't use carbondating to determine the age of the earth since it becomes accurate far too early due its half-life. Chosing the wrong isotope leads to inaccurate results and thus 'whatever answer you want'. However, due to the many isotopes available for determining the age of the Earth + cross referencing, the dates we got are very accurate indeed, geologically speaking.
And on a last note, entire modern medicine is built on top of evolution. Not micro evolution, but the whole damn package.
Also, if you believe in intelligent design, then I'd have to say whoever was in charge of it was a complete dumbass.
A couple of reasons:
Men have nipples (serves no function)
Appendix (has little to no function and is the cause of death for many)
Our limbs can't regrow (Seriously? Who came up with that)
Male gspot in asshole (Great idea)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_KLCr0Vn3MZ4/ScpzwBFCpuI/AAAAAAAAAho/lr-JNt6_whY/20090326_085.gif
And here is what Neil deGrasse Tyson has to say about it : http://i.imgur.com/uF2sq.jpg
And lastly: Douglas Adams
http://i.imgur.com/9o1Ev.jpg
Neil is great.
What?? You're an evolutionexpert or what, did evolutionblogger1997sk8r told you that?
*bursts to laughter* ??????????????? Arguments, please. Because there are absolutely none of those in this world.
They believe in the spontaneus generation of initial cell mostly just because of materialistic sciencephilosophy (only the matterlevel explanation is scientific). The facts indicate that the cell cant generate randomly:
Miller's tests are irrelevant: Some aminoacids could be created but we know that the initial atmosphere wasn't reducing like in Miller's tests.
The reaction balance is on water+particles side, not on the long chain's side.
On the same time other compounds are generated which prevents long polymeres from generating.
In natural processes there will be generated L and D shapes equally but life uses only the other shape.
You also need cell membrane and segregationsystems.
Plus where do you get the correct information to DNA? Absolutely impossible to be generated by random. All the known programs are designed.
This makes me lose all the hope in you.. The designer was something no man can imagine, it's so genious no mangenious can understand it, if you only knew how bacteria works leave alone how human works or universe works.. This just shows your level of knowledge of closing zero. The designer did perfect. You shouldn't be doubting that, but wondering how your evolution could've done something so perfect.
In the start we're both female and male and both have tits, if you become male tits remain. Where's the problem? Appendix plays an important role in producing and storing useful bacteria. That Neil guy has no clue either haha, first of all: if a critic thinks something is badly designed he should propose a better structure and point out how it's better. Who has done that so far? Yup. Also, by not knowing a meaning for something doesn't mean it's meaningless, just like your tailbone you would think ahaa it's proof we used to have tails, no. It protects us from impacts like a bumper and heals well if fractured.
But I don't think you'll read or comprehend this reply either so it's no use going any deeper until you've read all my previous replies. And it's no use argumenting scientific facts any further if you're not in the know with those things at all.
If you read any legitimate source on evolution you will never see micro or macro evolution mentioned because it's nonsense to divide it like that. You cannot logically accept one and deny the other.
As I said earlier, micro leads to macro. Just take the human for example. As a being, we're macro. But when we start to look deeper down, what do we find? Organs. Going further down we find tissue, even further we find cells. Turns out our entire body consists of those little cells. And what's interesting is that those cells in turn are macro for atoms. Amazing right?
But my point is, you cannot have micro without macro. You cannot have small changes the entire time and have them not lead to a big change if you compare them over a long period of time.
If I keep adding 0.000001 to 1, eventually it won't be 1 anymore, eventually it will be 2.
The simplest of life is a virus, all that's necessary for a virus to exist is for genetic material to be encapsuled in a bubble (now it's protein, but it was probably a sort of soap bubble in the early days) Now, Millers experiment tells us there are tons of aminoacids in the oceans back then. We also know the building blocks for the soap bubbles are available which also means there was plenty of phosphor for RNA and DNA to come along. Sure, we don't know exactly how it all came together yet, but if science not knowing it yet is your argument in favor of intelligent design then it really is quite sad.
A god of the gaps argument is the one you're having and it's logically flawed.
If there was a designer, then cool. But then our life is more than likely a byproduct of his creation of the universe. If not, you'd think he'd pop around for a talk every once in a while. Perhaps give a few pointers here and there. But nope. Not once has he been seen in recorded history. How strange.
If you think the universe and the earth is younger than what we know, then please explain why this directly contradicts everything we know.
Why shouldn't we doubt his perfection? No room for criticism? That doesn't sound like someone perfect. Besides, if he was perfect then there wouldn't be flaws.
I know why men have nipples biologically speaking. My point is that they serve no purpose at all from a designer point of view. Why, if he is so intelligent and perfect, didn't he make all of us start as males and then change into females when necessary? Men wouldn't have nipples, cool right?
Useful bacteria in the appendix? Hahah, do you know how many people die because of appendicitis (infection of the apendix because of the bacteria there) each year? Do you know how many need surgery to have it removed each year? What about wisdom teeth, do you know how many need to get those removed because there isn't room for them?
My scientific understanding is a lot more advanced than yours. The very idea that someone thoroughly studies evolution and then still rejects is laughable. Only a fool would be so blind. Even the Catholic church has admitted evolution to be correct, so you're really one of the few left who is still so foolish.
E: macroEVOLUTION and microEVOLUTION, microEVOLUTION doesn't lead to macroEVOLUTION, no
The fact that its outdated and u agree with it shows that its wrong and there is nothing holy about it.
Now go and attack amalek and utterly destroy all that they had and do no spare them; but kill both men and women infant, child nursing, ox and sheep, camels and donkey. 1 samuel 15:3
Yea surely this worlds would be much better if we lived by the bible.
Recommendations : Do not follow a religion that doesn't make sens to you. The power of the religion is the FAITH people have in it. So if you don't have faith in Islam you should stop forcing yourself being muslim.
I have met real muslims in Africa, admirable people very different from the so called "muslims" you have in Europ. I think it is much harder to be religious in our european societies.
If there is no God, what is good and bad? If there is no God, who defines it?
All religions are about the rules and ppl believe that cause they are scared or wanna look that they believe in smth. For example superficial christians going to the church just so others can see they believe.
At first I was totally against any kind off religion and thought its totally bullshit. I thought christians just go to church and cant do drugs, sex, partys and have other restrictions and its about the rules. The same went for other religions for me.
Then i got between the people who showed me the truth, the way out, the solution. These guys believed that Christ took their sin and that they are clean and have a real life. Back then I thought its just doesnt make sense that it is not possible. Even though i was kinda curious so I started to read New Testament and was realizing that this guy Jesus speaks the truth all the way. That he didnt do any sin. Realizing he was AGAINST the religion. Back then the religion was more about business which turned to indulgences the most awful thing. Then finally Luther found out the right truth that the salvation you can get through the grace and forgiveness of the God. All you have to do is just ask and mean it and you are forgiven. Is it fair? No! But God sees us everyone on the same level he loves everyone in the same way. Which reminds me of the story in the Bible when the father gives some money to the one of his son cause he wants to live his life and he goes to partys, women, alcohol, wild life. These things were satisfying him for a moment but it couldnt satisfy him fully. It is like you are thirsty but still can not be satisfied by it and the problems go deeper and deeper. It is like drinking salt water while Jesus offers you pure beautiful water. Well anyways so he returns home and Father runs to him and despite he is dirty and the things he had done he embraces him. AND THIS STORY AFFECTED ME THE MOST HE DOESNT CARE HOW I LOOK WHAT IVE DONE HE LOVES ME NO MATTER WHAT AND HE IS HAPPY I COME TO HIM WHEN I REALIZE THE THINGS THAT LOOK COOL OR SATYSFYING ARE BASICALLY THINGS THAT SEEM TO EXTINGUISH YOUR THIRST BUT YOU FALL EVEN DEEPER IN THE ABYSS AND MORE THIRSTY. So i stopped doing these things and i was realizing what i was doing that its for nothing it gives me nothing it just gives away from me.
For those who claim God does not exist:
There are 5 proves that help us know there is a God. Each prove is like a stick. One can not really prove there is a God but putting them together we have proof of God's being, work and power. 1 stick can be broken easily by person's knee. But five sticks are so much stronger and can not be broken. (hope u catch the meaning)
We know that the God exist because....
1. We know it because of what we see around us.
questions like: How this world come into being? It could not come into being by itself. Who made it then?. There is NO secret about it. (Genesis 1:1)
2. We know it because all things work as they were planned
Ok just think about earth, stars, sun, moon. They dont run into each other. They go year after year in the way they were planned to go! Millions of stars were put in their places. Nights + Days go as they were planned. The one who planned this has great wisdom!
3. We know it because of the way people are made
We have something inside us that tells us if we have done something wrong. We dont have just blood, body, bones. We can know the right from wrong.
4. We know it because of what past tells us
We have the Bible. And the Bible is the word of the God. Many early preachers said certain things would happen in the future, and they did happen. (Thats why the knowledge of Old Testament is good so that we can see the things in New Testament more effectively)
5. We know there is a God because EVERYONE NEEDS A GOD
Each of us knows there is something wrong is our lives. Ok you may not call it sin, but dont you have guilty feeling? Dont you think about there is a one who is over all. We need a leader, a purpose, destination.
Bible doesnt try to prove there is a God. It just tells about God because everyone over all the world already know that He is. Bible says that there is the only one true God.
Basically what i hear from people the most is:
1. I dont believe in God because why should i believe in something i cannot see
2. I dont believe in God because a) i dont wanna go to church b) obey his rules
3. I dont believe in God because i believe in myself and im strong i dont need a belief.
4. I dont believe in God because i believe in smth else
1. I tell you what it was really hard for me to believe in Him. To keep on the track. But once i submitted to him and started to read the Bible regulary I started kinda see things differently and was starting to realize that the things what BIble says are true. Knowledge from Bible and God working in my christian friends led to amazing reflections to my relationships in family, friends, with Him. It is just about your choice, no one forces you to believe. Jesus says that good for those who saw and believed but blessed be those who believe and dont see. I gave it a shot and i realized it was the best thing i could ever did.
2. a) Nowadays everyone says that. But for example i go to the church but the church is not really the building its just the group christians where we have events, talks, and most essentially we study the word together. it is always good to see other people's opinion it can really help! So going to the church doesnt mean you gotta go to building (church). It is just about the community of christians where you can grow in Christ, where you can encourage each other and have christian friends.
b) Well this was also my opinion i was like: ¨Why the fuck i should believe in smth that reduces me so much? But then when i was reading the Bible more i was starting to realize. Wait God loves me, he wants the best for me. And it is up to me if I obey these things he wants us to do or does not want us to do because We have free will which was given us by him. So even when you are christian you dont have to do that what he wants you to do. if you act against him it may satisfy you for a sec, days, weeks, years but then u still gonna come to him with tears in the eyes. (kinda common to me i have in my head kinda voice u know what to do in certain situation but u take the path of sin which is easier or more comfortable for your ego, body etc., it satisfies me for sometime and then i still come back and repent and the most amazing thing is that he is not mad it is like that story i mentioned up)
3. Well Im not afraid or ashamed to admit that im weak and i need God to help me with my life, with my each day's being, with everything! i would be nothing without him! But some ppl told me that they believe in themselves and yea they really did for sometime (because of girlfriend, money, work, position, popularity, etc.) but eventually they were sad because if you live only for your girlfriend and you dont have relationship with God how can you know she will be faithful to you when your relationship is built only on you two and on YOUR OWN values which may be good, but eventually they will be showed as insufficient. If you have relationship with the God in the center of it and therefore have same values. Your fundamentals for your relationship will be strong and firm! If you have money, work, postion, popularity as your God than you will be unhappy and unsatisfied eventually.
4. And i totally respect that! You have free will for what you believe in. I just want to ask you if something else than God offers you love, ethernal life, relationship with him, forgivness of all the bad things you have done and will do. God who wants the best for you because HE KNOWS WHATS THE BEST FOR YOU, even though you may thing opposite and differently. God who is patient with you, who wants to talk with you, who wants to hang out with you, who wants YOU!
Suppose you are in the building with 6 floors which is on the fire and 3 guys are on the roof.
The fire has reached 4th floor and the first guy says well i believe in myself so im jumping cya guys! So as he goes down he maybe plays piano because hes good at it or holds his wallet and counts his money from the work he made cause he is so insured for his life. and he jumped
The fire has reached 5th floor and the second guys says well im not worried i build my religion from the best things of many religions. So maybe he saw a wheel from the massive car so he fastens that to his foot and he saw wings from the plane, yeah, these are pretty good too so he takes it too and then he saw inflatable ball so he fastens it to his head. and he jumped.
The fire has reached the 6th floor and the last guy doesnt know what to do he doesnt believe in himself or other religions... hes just desperate and suddenly he hears a helicopter coming to the roof the guy in the heli throws you a rope it can be dangerous, its just a rope, but do you have other chance, the fire will kill you!! he has a choice its up to him!
So my religion? well i dont have one. I have relationship with God!
First thing I read, already stopped reading.