What is Christmas about?
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22 Dec 2007, 20:23
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Polls
Many people all over the world will be celebrating Christmas in a few days time, what's it all about?
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5.8 %
(100 votes)
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22.6 %
(391 votes)
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27.0 %
(467 votes)
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8.2 %
(141 votes)
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21.9 %
(379 votes)
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14.5 %
(250 votes)
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1. Atheists don't only flame at christianity, but at all beliefsystems.
2. Atheists are tolerant against believers. They don't kill believers because they don't agree with them. They simply only disagree with religious people. That's a difference. Everything should and must be discussed. Nothing is sacred.
3."the ones that do think that life has a purpose". So non-religious people don't think life has a purpose? Simply not true. They only have a different view on things.
4. I still don't understand why atheists are bloodthirsty?
Also I've seen that numerous times that aggressive "atheists" were concentrating their pitiful efforts around christianity only, absolutely ignoring (just as they should imo) all the rest.
2. Oh I as a christian also think that everything should be discussed, also here again we see the difference between real atheists and random flamers.
3. Purpose of life is all in all the thing that every religion is about. What is a purpose of life for an atheist?
4. I meant "bloodthirsty" ion a metaphorical sense, I didn't mean that some random irish guy wants to kill every believer, I just meant that people like this gain satisfaction of flaming the religion.
2. Agreed.
3. The purpose of life for atheists is to enjoy their life. Being amazed by the beautiful things around them and try to understand as much as possible. Life is a one-life opportunity.
4. OK, but next time mention that you were talking in a metaphorical sense. Otherwise it's really confusing :P
Is sol skilled?
1 yes ( LOL )
2 no
3 who?
do you see what he's trying to say? the lol is giving the impression, that if you choose jesus you're basicly a mental retard. me myself i was raised christian and believe in the general story of the bible, and so the story about jesus aswell.
and i don't mean that as an offense on you, but it's just giving the wrong impression..
Why not the full story of The Bible?
You strike me as the kind of believer that's referred to as an 'a la carte' believer. Meaning, you pick and choose which part of The Bible you want to believe. Presumably, the less insane parts.
You shouldn't judge someone elses music taste since it's all personal taste <3
Speak for yourself, before insulting people that, you think, belongs to your "group".
Pseudo-atheists? Nice!
Flame is a word I wouldn't associate with my attitude to religion. I mainly criticise Christianity because I was brought up Catholic so Catholicism and Christianity in general are what I know most about. Christianity is also generally not difficult to leave. Maybe in The USA with all those evangelical fundies it's not easy but it's got nothing on Islam.
Speaking of Islam, people don't criticise it much because they're afraid of it - simple. Look at the recent teddy bear scandal in Sudan. Remember the Muhammed cartoon?
http://www.middle-east-online.com/pictures/big/_15678_london-demo-7-2-2006.jpg
http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/muslim_atrocities/Behead.jpg
I suspect a change in the zeitgeist however. With resources such as the internet, people are actually able to find out information about their own and other religion that they weren't able to before. The only readily available resource was the pulpit. And we all know how reliable priests etc are.
You could say the Bible is a resource, but I don't get the impression that a lot of people actually read it. If they did, there wouldn't be as many Christians in the world I guess. :p
kind of hard to explain, hope you got my point
How you guys get so much meaning from a 'lol'...
so discriminating a religion = racism?
its just another day.. dun care.
wow never though random ranting was so easy.
HardyRah: I Am HardyRah!
It's really about family and food, but neither were a option.. so I chose ^jESUS!
Amen.
Even though presents are nice.
Max: No.
Felix: Nor do I. Nor do I, but my children do. They are still small. But do you know who they like even better than Santa Claus? His helper, Pedro el Negro. Black Peter. There's an old Mexican tale that tells of how Santa Claus got so very busy looking out for the good children that he had to hire some help to look out for the bad children. So he hired Pedro. And Santa Claus gave him a list with all the names of all the bad children. And Pedro would come every night to check them out. And the people, the little kids that were misbehaving, that were not saying their prayers, Pedro would leave a little toy donkey on their window. A little burro. And he would come back, and if the children were still misbehaving, Pedro would take them away, and nobody would ever see them again. Now, if I am being Santa Claus, and you are Pedro, how do you think jolly Santa Claus would feel if one day Pedro came into his office and said, 'I lost the list.' How fucking furious do you think he will get?
Christmas to me is about family en food. But I voted for 'Receiving lots of presents'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSm7YPMQOSo
On a side note: jammer dat FC Utrecht heeft verloren. Hoe verassend hoog staan ze momenteel? (Dutch)
Ik kan dus hier uit opmaken dat u zich ook zo ergert aan mensen met een heilig boek?
Tussen haakjes: zullen we elkaar voortaan tutoyeren? Van uw zijde apprecieer ik dat wel.
You just said it like it would be some old fest that Christians took randomly.
Christian" also means a member or adherent of a church or other organized group within Christianity. As an adjective, the term may also describe anything associated with Christianity, or even remotely thought to be consistent with Christianity, as in "the Christian thing to do."
What do you think?
EDIT: Oh yeah, no-school
gj marketing!
its not always write what you read at wikipedia !!
Saint Nikolaus is german, and he gives gift to children the sunday four weeks before christmas' one (by Santa Claus) and he really existed (afaik).
You fucking retard, you know, someone really celebrates christmas for jesus.
(I dont believe in jesus, but wanted to flame you fucking sunshine)
crossfire, a catholic community
best / bester / ze bestest
To be honest, i don't get this Jesus with the "(lol)" option. Can anyone explain please ?
"who's there?"
'it's jesus, lol'
You're fucking pathetic. I understand that some of you don't celebrate christmas at home because your own or let's say 'family religion' either doesen't exist or is something other than christianity. But it simply is a fact that most of you who laugh online about jesus option are actually gonna celebrate christmas at home with your family. Whether it is by going to a church, receiving presents, having a family lunch, or all of these together doesen't matter at all. What is important is that most of you will celebrate it in some way. If so many of you are anti-christ, do this: refuse every christmas present you might receive and go tell to your parents the same shit you post online.. that is if you have balls to make such a statement in front of them. Idiots.
I'm not going to miss an opportunity to spend some time with my entire family just because the church says it's 'their' holiday.
If you don't beleive in god (yeah, not capital here because I'm talking in general now - any religion), don't be annoying with making fun of other religions. If you (not YOU, hellgoat, specifically) beleive in other religion and are still making fun of christmas, then I have a completely different opinion about you, which doesen't differ at all to my opinion about annoying spamming Jehovah's Witnesses who somehow feel invited to come to my door and tell me how rimocatholic-ism is wrong.
Also, since you come across as such a devout christian, I'm curious as to whether you celebrate Christmas the traditional religious way, or if you too have perverted the celebration into a commercial frenzy. If it's the latter, then you're as much a hypocrit as anyone else posting here.
My comment is about those who DO write shit about jesus and christianity in general online, but WILL celebrate it at home.
If you're not going to celebrate christmas, but still write posts saying " It is bad ", then I could talk about a completely different opinion, which I will keep for myself.
Aside from the fact that Christmas has become way too commercial, I don't have a problem with its corruption, because a whole lot of other good comes about, eg. family being brought together, kindness, charity, etc. If you disagree with that, solely for the sake of being pedantic (which seems to be the case), then you should perhaps realise that atheists celebrating Christmas are not the only party guilty of hypocracy, if that's what you want to call it.
Almost every facet of modern society has its roots in religion, what matters is the here and now though.
I don't know if I'm right but I have thought that giving gifts has something to do with that the Three Wise Men, The Three Kings, Kings from the east (or however you want to call them) gave the gifts for Christ. That's just my point of view.
I don't understand automatic respect. I respect those who earn my respect, not those who tell me I should respect bronze age myths.
I really don't know how to show you what I'm trying to tell you. Can't it be more simpler? You beleive in something and I respect that. Do you even have friends in life which don't beleive in the same thing you do? If you do, would you tell them the very same thing you told me: "Why should I respect your beliefs" ?
The context of the word respect that most religious people use is in terms of "don't question my beliefs, they're based on faith." etc I wouldn't say it's the same as tolerance really. I'm not a sociopath who can't have friends who aren't atheists, though I might find it difficult being friends with someone who is a creationist, or of a similar ridiculous belief.
I find it amazing how rational, reasonable, logical people don't bother applying the same resources to religion. Belief in the abrahamic god is irrational, unreasonable and illogical.
I've learned more about Catholicism and religion in general since I became an atheist, than I did when I was a 'believer' and whenever I'm engaging in religious debates, I find I usually know more about someones religion than they do. Fucked up, isn't it?
2.santa (my part-time affair)
3.family
4.holidays
actually the thing I like about xmas is that city is decorated, there are a lot of lights everywhere and other decorations, candles (electric!) in people windows, it looks different from everyday, it looks nice, i dont really care about this religious nonsense, or commercial crap, i just like how city changes for these holidays
when i was kid it was about presents ofc :)
"getting a fucking migraine"
but then again it's not on the list.
no xmas in dutchieland or just u because of special case?
It's just some "special dinner", that's it.
(help me, please)
HE SHOWED US HOW TO CUT BREAD AND FISH
about a guy that invented the christian shit with no proofs.. (that became murders l8er)
its all about speculations about one (lolol) guy that (maybe) lived 2000 years ago...
i think christmas is an invention of some bored, handicaped guys
IMO, the existence of a man called Jesus is probable, however the stories and beliefs attributed to him are very improbable/ridiculous to be honest.
I seriously challenge anyone to show me otherwise.
For instance, I have much more reason to believe Alexander The Great lived, as opposed to Jesus.
just woke up and didn't want to reply anything anymore.
Realized there's nothing to say to you that you would believe.
I wasn't going to believe what you said probably because what you say isn't based on anything. Deleting it just makes it look like you're embarrassed of what you said. :-\
That's why I deleted. What's the point keeping them if you say so ?
I'm not embarrased about it, you would just come striking again to those and I was not going to reply to them anymore, 'cause it has no point. Although your "facts" are based on anything as much as mine.
That's a reason to stop replying but to delete? Nah
"I'm not embarrased about it, you would just come striking again to those and I was not going to reply to them anymore, 'cause it has no point. Although your "facts" are based on anything as much as mine."
Ok, I think we're done here. Go back to school or something. Ridiculous! :-\
If that your facts are based on something more than mine is your point, I really think you should go to school. Your point of view is that there can't be Jesus. So you just look for problems in it. That can't be objective, can it ?
Not going to reply anymore though, ridiculous !
That's not what I said.
"Your point of view is that there can't be Jesus. "
Read my posts (the ones you didn't delete). That's not my point of view.
I don't think you've really read what I've said.
5$ says OP is wearing a Che Guevara tshirt.
Beliefs are flawed anyway. Go read about it.
"I dont celebrate christmas at all"
and fuck im in the age, where i not only receive present, i have to give some nice too..
but now im 20 its about giving :(
sucks tbh ( i hope my bro never gets kids ... its will save me lots off money )
Always helps when you have little brothers and sisters.
=P
Pressies !
nah, voted family
reciving much presents = kids ( cause they have cool parents which accept some nerds in their kidroom above them) votes for that
Jesus (lol) = <0[]L D|_|D3$ votes for that
Santa Claus = esraeli peeps votes for that LoL
Family = guys with a big Mentality are just voting for this.
Holidays = guys like shoutcasters who doesnt play a game active and are jobbing aroung too are voting for this
x]
I'm sorry, but the Bible either has the answer or it hasn't. You're just kidding yourself if you're persuaded to think otherwise. As for me not wanting to talk to you. Not true. I really don't mind talking with deluded creationists who say the Bible has found the answer (which is what you said, deny it or not) but what I said was there's no point. Most creationists are too far gone on their credulous path.
"But science got nothing to believe in. So I wonder how you, as I believe an atheistic man, think about how the Earth was born."
Science isn't about belief! It's not about faith either. It's about defining what you wish to find out, formulating a hypothesis, making predictions via the hypothesis and conducting experiments on it. The key word that scientists work with as opposed to religious folk is evidence.
It's just stupid you tell people to proof you otherwise and then say "I won't talk to creationists." I was just wondering how you think about it, and as I can see, you don't think about it cause the answer to my original question is still missing. If you could just answer my question, it's clear we can't end up in the same opinion, cause these things just are not proven.
Was just wondering your opinion, because you first mock people down with creationism, and still have no answer yourself.
The evidence you're talking about it's just the same as religious people has, texts.
They couldn't work on DNA and technology back then you know.
You misquoted me again, even after I corrected you. What use is this. You're just proving my point of how pointless this exercise may actually be! Read what I'm saying.
"Was just wondering your opinion, because you first mock people down with creationism, and still have no answer yourself."
If I ask you 1232890 x 129002, and you say the answer is 12...do I have to know the answer to stop from saying your answer is bogus?
The thing you need to remember is that you don't have an answer either, all you have is faith/belief based on no evidence.
The answer to your question is really just that science is working on it, whereas religion isn't. The evidence for the Big Bang alone really makes it hard for me to believe that people ignore it and maintain the Biblical account. How deluded! Science still has much work to do though. :-)
"The evidence you're talking about it's just the same as religious people has, texts."
What? I believe these religious texts exist, but whether or not their true is a different matter. Read what you just said and see that it's ridiculous please.
I don't know about Alexander but with Caesar, there are 10 copies that proove that he has lived, and the timeline between the original version and copies is like 1000 years. With Jesus, at first point, there are 24,000 copies of the gospel in about 25 years. And after that there are the historians like Tacitus, Josefus, Thallus, Suetonius, Plinius jr. and the Jewish law book Talmud saying that he lived, even though they didn't believe in his "resurrection. And of these books there are another 2000 copies or so."
What do copies of books have to do with ANYTHING? Also, people like Tacitus, Josephus, Thallush, Suetonius and Pliny the Younger didn't live at the time of Jesus. It's all hearsay. I can't believe you're comparing the likelihood of the existence of the most prominent Roman Emperor in history to Jesus.
"And still you think that the exist of Caesar, or Alexander however, is more obvious, and the information is more reliable? Yes, they existed but so did Jesus, with much more proofs."
Keep telling yourself that. Remember to be careful how you use the word proof.
Do yourself a favour and check about all the things attributed to Jesus which were clearly stolen from other mythology (Greek, Egyptian etc.)
Well, the people who talked about Caesar wrote it 1000 years after ? If Tacitus would have written about Caesar 200 years after (dunno when he lived) you would obviously believe him. I can compare them, dunno if anybody else has changed the world as much as Jesus, did he exist or not. (And as a note Caesar was not an emperor) You just try to find the problems in Bible and God and miss the facts. You should think things from an objective way, not like many other scientists that think the only possible explanation is "no, there's no God" so you just try to find the things why there's no God. Think about it.
But after all these replys I see we can't go either way. You can't drop my hard head from creationism and Jesus, and I can't drop you off the way you believe in science, which after all is a belief, whatever you say.
Good night, God bless.
There is a simple explanation. It's fiction.
Jesus - the historical figure - changed the world?
I think not.
Religions such as Christianity changed the world? Yes.
How? By force.
Jesus would probably be forgotten if it wasn't for the conversion of Paul (or Saul) of Tarsus on the road to Damascus from the 'revelation of Jesus Christ.''
I said Jesus changed, did he live or not. Was talking about Christianity which came from Jesus.
And to the fiction part, the mythology talks about the born from a virgin ?
That's one of the things I doubt most on Bible, because it has nothing to do with the story actually.
Check out the movie The God Who Wasn't There for some more interesting comparisons with the story Jesus and other mythology.
Just skimmed through the movie at the list:
- Born of a virgin on december 25
- Stars appeared at the birth
- Visited by Magi from the east
- Turned water into wine
- Healed the sick
- Cast out demons
- Performed miracles
- Transfigured before followers
- Rode on donkey into the city
- Betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
- Celebrated communal meal with bread and wine, representing saviours flesh and blood
- Killed on a cross or tree
- Descended into hell
- Resurrected on third day
- Ascended into heaven to be with God the father
Now I'm getting some sleep to my uneducated head, good night.
God bless, hope you can find him back some day.
Firstly, the star of Bethlehem only appears in one of the four gospels. There is no Magi in any gospel other than Matthew's either (which was written over 90 years after the approximate year of birth of Jesus).
It's very possible that when Matthew wrote that, he himself witnessed some sort of astronomical event and simply added it to the story.
From wiki:
Which event is most plausible as an explanation of the Star of Bethlehem depends on which year is accepted as the year Jesus was born. Both Luke and Matthew wrote that Jesus was born when Herod was king. According to Josephus, Herod died shortly after a lunar eclipse. This is usually identified as the eclipse of March 13, 4 BC. Jesus was born sometime between the first appearance of the Star of Bethlehem and the time the magi arrived in Herod's court. As Herod ordered the execution of boys age 2 and under, the star must have made its first appearance within the previous two years. This line of reasoning yields a date of 6-4 BC for the nativity.
One problem with the 6-4 BC date is that the Census of Quirinius, a key element in Luke's nativity narrative, did not take place until 6-7 AD, ten years after the death of Herod. There were also two lunar eclipses in 1 BC; however, coins issued by Herod's successors show that they dated their reigns as beginning in 4 BC.
"God bless, hope you can find him back some day."
I'll stick with reason, rationality and critical thinking thanks. I hope everyone finds it eventually.
And you've already been fighting enough about the (lol) after jesus, and I'm happy there's that many reflected (on both sides) people on crossfire. Score!
Personally I've recieved one gift this year, and who the fuck cares. It's really a luxury problem, it's hard to buy gifts to people that have everything from before. I saw on the norwegian online-newspapers that actually there now is a SYSTEM to sell unwanted christmas-presents. HELLOOO? Ring a bell? What used to be the religious celebration of the birth of Jesus is now simply about the presents, the food, and the holiday. In the name of Jesus we roll around in luxury even more than we do the rest of the year. Makes me feel sick.
Merry christmas!
LOL!